Author Topic: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken  (Read 2533 times)

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Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 12:13:08 AM »

Offline Somebody

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If the stories about Tyrell Terry's BBIQ are true to go along with his 2 inch growth spurt and 20-25 pound muscle gain, I would trade up from #14 to #8 to ensure that we can get him.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 01:14:28 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.
D'Angelo Russell. Signed a max contract with the Warriors in July 2019. Got traded in February 2020 for a crappy contract + 2 picks. I bet you'd agree that the trade was not an organizational suicide for the Warriors.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 05:19:42 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 06:31:36 AM »

Online gouki88

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.
D'Angelo Russell. Signed a max contract with the Warriors in July 2019. Got traded in February 2020 for a crappy contract + 2 picks. I bet you'd agree that the trade was not an organizational suicide for the Warriors.
Probably because D-Lo is getting to play with his best friend (KAT) and will get more responsibilities in Minnesota. Have a hard time believing Kemba would be thrilled to go back to a terrible team to return to the cycle of mediocrity after his first taste of playoff success

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 04:32:36 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Trading Kemba for picks? Smh

You get picks but also a giant trade exemption that can be used to add players through a straight trade or a sign and trade.  I am not disagreeing with you necessarily as you don't know what the exemption will get you back but in theory, you could add a really good player.  Say for example Gallinari in a sign and trade (just as an example, not as a suggested trade).

Or maybe the Knicks add Portis to the picks and then we use the exemption to sign and trade for Galinari at say $10M.  Now it is Portis, Gallinari, #8, first round next year and save $10M or so.  That is how this would need to work be have it make sense to give up  Kemba Walker.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 08:48:42 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.
D'Angelo Russell. Signed a max contract with the Warriors in July 2019. Got traded in February 2020 for a crappy contract + 2 picks. I bet you'd agree that the trade was not an organizational suicide for the Warriors.
Probably because D-Lo is getting to play with his best friend (KAT) and will get more responsibilities in Minnesota. Have a hard time believing Kemba would be thrilled to go back to a terrible team to return to the cycle of mediocrity after his first taste of playoff success

yeah, you had me right up to that last word...then you lost me

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 08:57:42 PM »

Offline footey

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.
D'Angelo Russell. Signed a max contract with the Warriors in July 2019. Got traded in February 2020 for a crappy contract + 2 picks. I bet you'd agree that the trade was not an organizational suicide for the Warriors.

Technically you’re right. But that had more to do with taking advantage of Durant FA singing with Nets. It wasn’t like their was this courtship like between Kemba and Boston. If you don’t appreciate the difference in circumstances then I give up.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 09:51:24 PM »

Online gouki88

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.
D'Angelo Russell. Signed a max contract with the Warriors in July 2019. Got traded in February 2020 for a crappy contract + 2 picks. I bet you'd agree that the trade was not an organizational suicide for the Warriors.
Probably because D-Lo is getting to play with his best friend (KAT) and will get more responsibilities in Minnesota. Have a hard time believing Kemba would be thrilled to go back to a terrible team to return to the cycle of mediocrity after his first taste of playoff success

yeah, you had me right up to that last word...then you lost me
He won more games in his first year in Boston than he had in his entire Charlotte career. That sounds like success to me

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2020, 09:35:14 AM »

Offline ConnerHenry

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If the Knicks think either player will be there at #8, they're in far more serious trouble than thought

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2020, 12:24:56 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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According to several pick value charts that I have referred to, the value of Pick 8 is about equal to the value of pick 14 + 30.  Feels about right.  Not sure the Knicks do this as they have pick 27 (leaving them 14, 27, 30).  This would be good for the Celtics it seems.  We would have 8 and 26.

If they want 14 plus Romeo for the #8 pick, this does not seem worth it.  Grant Williams plus 14 for 8?  That I would do but NYK maybe not.

For what it is worth, say the Kincks did give us 8 for 14 and 30, and we then flipped 8 + 26, the value is about equal to pick 4.  Not sure these are actual trades anyone would make but the summary of equal value would be these 3 options of first round picks:

     14, 26, 30  (Where we stand now)
     8, 26         (after 14+30 for Knicks' 8 )
     4               (after 8+26 for Chicago's 4 )
Definitely doesn't feel right.  Late 1st round picks generally are going to get you a decent bench player at best and often are busts.  The Kings used the #15 and #20 to get the #10 a few drafts ago.  Personally I wouldn't drop more than a couple spots for a late 1st.
I would maybe drop ONE spot for the 30th pick.  Dropping six is patently ridiculous.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 01:42:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 or #47 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30 or #47
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic
Kinda impossible to do all this when the sign and trades can't happen until who knows when after the draft. Impossible to get these deals done before the draft without tampering.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2020, 03:20:34 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 or #47 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30 or #47
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic
Kinda impossible to do all this when the sign and trades can't happen until who knows when after the draft. Impossible to get these deals done before the draft without tampering.
We can definitely do the Kemba deal on draft night.

regarding the sign and trade deals:
Tampering happens all the time behind the scenes. In any case, we can initiate discussions at a later time. If the other teams aren't interested in the players we drafted, we can simply offer them a future pick or even one of our current prospects.

The Pistons and the Thunder are in asset collection mode. Especially the Pistons, they are in a mess right now. They need as many prospects as they can get. If Wood and/or Gallo agree to play for the C's, I'm pretty sure we can work something out with their teams.

The Heat and the Raps are a whole nother story. Worst case scenario, we offer them a future pick.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2020, 02:33:29 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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an alternative way to look at this report would be to question if the Knicks are willing to trade up for Wiseman.

Would Hornets or Warriors trade #2 or #3 for #8, Robinson, and #27?

Seems like a solid option for both teams. Robinson might not have the ceiling of Wiseman but he is cheap for 2 seasons and especially makes sense for the Warriors.

Either team could be looking at trading essentially Wiseman for Robinson, #8(Okoro/Haliburton/Advija), and #27(Bane/Maledon/T Bey)

« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 02:41:34 PM by CFAN38 »
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Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2020, 11:22:56 AM »

Online gouki88

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an alternative way to look at this report would be to question if the Knicks are willing to trade up for Wiseman.

Would Hornets or Warriors trade #2 or #3 for #8, Robinson, and #27?

Seems like a solid option for both teams. Robinson might not have the ceiling of Wiseman but he is cheap for 2 seasons and especially makes sense for the Warriors.

Either team could be looking at trading essentially Wiseman for Robinson, #8(Okoro/Haliburton/Advija), and #27(Bane/Maledon/T Bey)
Never thought about that from Golden State’s perspective. Really makes sense. They’ve done more with less (Looney, Bell, Zaza) and pick 8 is still a handy player.

They would however lose their really only way of ridding themselves of Wiggins

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2020, 11:31:04 AM »

Offline wiley

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 or #47 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30 or #47
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic
Kinda impossible to do all this when the sign and trades can't happen until who knows when after the draft. Impossible to get these deals done before the draft without tampering.
We can definitely do the Kemba deal on draft night.

regarding the sign and trade deals:
Tampering happens all the time behind the scenes. In any case, we can initiate discussions at a later time. If the other teams aren't interested in the players we drafted, we can simply offer them a future pick or even one of our current prospects.

The Pistons and the Thunder are in asset collection mode. Especially the Pistons, they are in a mess right now. They need as many prospects as they can get. If Wood and/or Gallo agree to play for the C's, I'm pretty sure we can work something out with their teams.

The Heat and the Raps are a whole nother story. Worst case scenario, we offer them a future pick.

Would this trade allow us to just sign Baynes and Bertans instead of sign and trading?

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2020, 11:50:27 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I keep hearing everyone in the top wants to trade down in this draft. Anyone know what that's about?
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