Author Topic: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken  (Read 2471 times)

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Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« on: October 16, 2020, 02:41:32 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The New York Knicks are reportedly seriously considering trading down from the eighth overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft, according to Marc Berman of the New York Post.

The report indicated that the Knicks have apparently had internal conversations about moving back, potentially with a team in the 12-15 range. New York would want to obtain a young player, on a rookie contract, in a potential trade while maintaining a lottery pick this year.

However, the Knicks would standpat at No. 8 should either LaMelo Ball or James Wiseman remain on the board when they are on the clock. The organization believes Ball and Wiseman are the best prospects in the draft and would select either one if they fall.


https://nypost.com/2020/10/12/knicks-seriously-considering-trading-down-in-2020-nba-draft/

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 02:48:53 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Would absolutely love if we could package the 3 picks to get Okongwu or Hayes if either is still there at 8.
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Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 03:04:02 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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According to several pick value charts that I have referred to, the value of Pick 8 is about equal to the value of pick 14 + 30.  Feels about right.  Not sure the Knicks do this as they have pick 27 (leaving them 14, 27, 30).  This would be good for the Celtics it seems.  We would have 8 and 26.

If they want 14 plus Romeo for the #8 pick, this does not seem worth it.  Grant Williams plus 14 for 8?  That I would do but NYK maybe not.

For what it is worth, say the Kincks did give us 8 for 14 and 30, and we then flipped 8 + 26, the value is about equal to pick 4.  Not sure these are actual trades anyone would make but the summary of equal value would be these 3 options of first round picks:

     14, 26, 30  (Where we stand now)
     8, 26         (after 14+30 for Knicks' 8 )
     4               (after 8+26 for Chicago's 4 )

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 03:32:54 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 or #47 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30 or #47
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Ibaka/Dragic
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:32:11 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 03:45:54 PM »

Online footey

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 03:48:25 PM »

Online footey

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If the Knicks are really that infatuated with Wiseman, just goes to show you that they really don't have much faith in Mitchell Robinson's future as a starting big.  Although extremely athletic, he struck me as a guy who lacked BBIQ.  I have a much higher regard for Rob Williams. 

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 04:08:47 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:19:37 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 04:09:47 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The idea of trading Kemba to someone like the Knicks for draft picks and a big trade exemption, and then trying to do a sign and trade for someone (or just a trade) is an interesting approach but I don't get the appeal of Christian Wood.  Christian Wood and some mid to late lottery picks is not enough for me.  I would rather just keep Kemba.

Maybe having the trade exemption turns into something but there is risk that we don't get anything more than the picks.  Pretty good for the Knicks to get Kemba for the #8 this year and likely a worse pick next year but they give up all their cap space committing to Kemba.  They could do worse, for sure but I bet they have loftier goals for that money.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:23:21 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 05:03:01 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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According to several pick value charts that I have referred to, the value of Pick 8 is about equal to the value of pick 14 + 30.  Feels about right.  Not sure the Knicks do this as they have pick 27 (leaving them 14, 27, 30).  This would be good for the Celtics it seems.  We would have 8 and 26.

If they want 14 plus Romeo for the #8 pick, this does not seem worth it.  Grant Williams plus 14 for 8?  That I would do but NYK maybe not.

For what it is worth, say the Kincks did give us 8 for 14 and 30, and we then flipped 8 + 26, the value is about equal to pick 4.  Not sure these are actual trades anyone would make but the summary of equal value would be these 3 options of first round picks:

     14, 26, 30  (Where we stand now)
     8, 26         (after 14+30 for Knicks' 8 )
     4               (after 8+26 for Chicago's 4 )
Definitely doesn't feel right.  Late 1st round picks generally are going to get you a decent bench player at best and often are busts.  The Kings used the #15 and #20 to get the #10 a few drafts ago.  Personally I wouldn't drop more than a couple spots for a late 1st. 

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 07:10:25 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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According to several pick value charts that I have referred to, the value of Pick 8 is about equal to the value of pick 14 + 30.  Feels about right.  Not sure the Knicks do this as they have pick 27 (leaving them 14, 27, 30).  This would be good for the Celtics it seems.  We would have 8 and 26.

If they want 14 plus Romeo for the #8 pick, this does not seem worth it.  Grant Williams plus 14 for 8?  That I would do but NYK maybe not.

For what it is worth, say the Kincks did give us 8 for 14 and 30, and we then flipped 8 + 26, the value is about equal to pick 4.  Not sure these are actual trades anyone would make but the summary of equal value would be these 3 options of first round picks:

     14, 26, 30  (Where we stand now)
     8, 26         (after 14+30 for Knicks' 8 )
     4               (after 8+26 for Chicago's 4 )
Definitely doesn't feel right.  Late 1st round picks generally are going to get you a decent bench player at best and often are busts.  The Kings used the #15 and #20 to get the #10 a few drafts ago.  Personally I wouldn't drop more than a couple spots for a late 1st.
i understand your point on the cost of moving up. yet, you are referencing a draft from "a few drafts ago" and that might make a difference. this draft is generally considered to be flat. lots of players that are not that different in their expected impact.

if a GM considers the #8 pick to not be greatly superior to the #14, then another pick, of a roughly similar level player, might be enough.
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Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 07:19:44 PM »

Online gouki88

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Bummer that they wouldn't consider moving down if Wiseman is available, as he's one I'd really be keen on taking a flier on. I also like Okongwu and Hayes in that range, as well as Avdija, but I think he'll go to the Warriors.

If I were the Knicks I'd consider trading down too. Two years in a row where they haven't got into the pick they've wanted (Zion last year, top 5 this year), so I would look to try and shore up some good solid role players to put alongside Barrett, Randle, Robinson and any free agent they can nab.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 08:34:25 PM »

Online footey

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Option #1
Trade up for #8

Option #2
- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).
- Use the newly created TPE + #26 to acquire Christian Wood via a sign and trade with the Pistons.
- Use the remaining part of the TPE + #30 to acquire one of Gallinari/Ibaka via a sign and trade. We could also go after Jerami Grant or Joe Harris. Thing is, we would be restricted to offer Grant up to $11,215,383 in year 1 (=120% of current salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect. Don't think $11,215,383 would get the job done. Likewise, we'd be restricted to offer Harris up to $9,204,000 in year 1.

Quote from: Larry Coon's CBA FAQ
If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer us to acquire just Wood and use the remaining TPE at the trade deadline. Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. My target would be Tyrese Haliburton.

tl;dr
Celtics out: Kemba + #26 + #30
Celtics in: #8 + Knicks 2021 first + two of Wood/Gallinari/Joe Harris/Ibaka

Trading Kemba would be organizational suicide. Won't happen.
You mean like when we traded IT to our main conference rivals? Or like when the Clips traded Blake Griffin 6 months after he had signed a max contract? The Clips ended up signing Kawhi in free agency. That's not exactly an organization suicide in my book. It was a ballsy move and it paid off big time.

Max FA signing. List trades made involving those after first year.

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 09:39:48 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Is there anyone else (a big particularly) on their roster that can defend the rim, grab boards, and score at ease when playoff time comes

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 10:29:43 PM »

Offline Linwood

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Wiseman not dropping below GS

Re: Knicks seriously considering trading down if Wiseman is taken
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 10:30:39 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Trading Kemba for picks? Smh

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