Author Topic: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?  (Read 1841 times)

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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2020, 09:26:59 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and itís not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, itís that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smartís value would be at an all time high right now as heís on a very team friendly deal and heís in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.

Why are people so interested in going backwards? Smart is much better than those guys above. I know people are desperate after the loss but hurting your best players for rookies isnít the best way to do it.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2020, 09:51:05 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and itís not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, itís that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smartís value would be at an all time high right now as heís on a very team friendly deal and heís in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.

Why are people so interested in going backwards? Smart is much better than those guys above. I know people are desperate after the loss but hurting your best players for rookies isnít the best way to do it.

Please do some research on Haliburton before making a final statement, because I think youíve never taken the time to read up on him.

Ron Harper was a Hall of Fame talent before getting injured and was still better then Smart during his time with the Bulls and Fisher shot .400 from 3 and 90% from the line regularly and when you have Shaq, Kobe and later Gasol that is what you want from your role players...this is what i am alluding to Smart doesnít think or want to be a role player and understand his limitations. Smart shot .394% from the field and .333% from 3 in the playoffs...that is terrible. Again itís not his mechanics itís his shot selection that is the problem and by now it wonít change. Look at guys like JR Smith and Dion Waiters, no one wants them because they make poor decisions...Smart is no where near as bad and is an all world defender but you canít win a championship with a key guy shooting .394% from the floor. Smart is also our only real tradeable asset without losing any of our all star talent and after this offseason all of Aingeís warchest of picks are gone.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2020, 09:57:34 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and itís not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, itís that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smartís value would be at an all time high right now as heís on a very team friendly deal and heís in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.

Why are people so interested in going backwards? Smart is much better than those guys above. I know people are desperate after the loss but hurting your best players for rookies isnít the best way to do it.

Please do some research on Haliburton before making a final statement, because I think youíve never taken the time to read up on him.

Ron Harper was a Hall of Fame talent before getting injured and was still better then Smart during his time with the Bulls and Fisher shot .400 from 3 and 90% from the line regularly and when you have Shaq, Kobe and later Gasol that is what you want from your role players...this is what i am alluding to Smart doesnít think or want to be a role player and understand his limitations. Smart shot .394% from the field and .333% from 3 in the playoffs...that is terrible. Again itís not his mechanics itís his shot selection that is the problem and by now it wonít change. Look at guys like JR Smith and Dion Waiters, no one wants them because they make poor decisions...Smart is no where near as bad and is an all world defender but you canít win a championship with a key guy shooting .394% from the floor. Smart is also our only real tradeable asset without losing any of our all star talent and after this offseason all of Aingeís warchest of picks are gone.

I did, I like him but he's not worth giving up Smart. He provides elite defense that's not easily replaced and besides it's not like he shot bad because he wanted to. Kemba was playing hurt and Gordon was out for most of the playoffs. They are in a good place no need for desperation moves.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2020, 10:50:36 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and itís not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, itís that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smartís value would be at an all time high right now as heís on a very team friendly deal and heís in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.

Why are people so interested in going backwards? Smart is much better than those guys above. I know people are desperate after the loss but hurting your best players for rookies isnít the best way to do it.

Please do some research on Haliburton before making a final statement, because I think youíve never taken the time to read up on him.

Ron Harper was a Hall of Fame talent before getting injured and was still better then Smart during his time with the Bulls and Fisher shot .400 from 3 and 90% from the line regularly and when you have Shaq, Kobe and later Gasol that is what you want from your role players...this is what i am alluding to Smart doesnít think or want to be a role player and understand his limitations. Smart shot .394% from the field and .333% from 3 in the playoffs...that is terrible. Again itís not his mechanics itís his shot selection that is the problem and by now it wonít change. Look at guys like JR Smith and Dion Waiters, no one wants them because they make poor decisions...Smart is no where near as bad and is an all world defender but you canít win a championship with a key guy shooting .394% from the floor. Smart is also our only real tradeable asset without losing any of our all star talent and after this offseason all of Aingeís warchest of picks are gone.
Aaaaaaand his TS% was 55.2% (slightly below average when compared to the average during the RS) :laugh:. Trying to measure efficiency using the raw slash line has to go ::)

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2020, 10:51:29 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.
I think it is worth saying that a 20-10 guy on a bad team is not the same a 20-10 guy on a good team. I like Collins, but box scores don't always tell the whole story.
They always don't tell the whole story unless they're adjusted or used as data for composite box score stats like PIPM, and even then we need to do some legwork at the very least to make sense of the numbers. Pulling out the basic slash line to say that John Collins is great isn't convincing at all (although I do think that he has potential, his offence is pretty tantalizing next to quality on-ball creators).

Uhhhhh...I never said that his slash line in Atlanta suggests greatness or that he'd put up that line here. I said Atlanta isn't trading a young productive player for an old guy who can't stay on the court anymore.

Now, I did suggest that how he scores and his athleticism make him super intriguing and why he'd flourish next to Brown and Tatum in a Brad Steven's system for many years.
Just to be clear, I know what you said. I do think you are painting Hayward in the worst possible light and Collins in a very positive light. I was trying to take some shine off Collins with my comment. I'd also suggest that Hayward is much more valuable than you make him seem.
^this.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2020, 01:01:02 AM »

Online PhoSita

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2020, 05:02:55 AM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2020, 06:44:41 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.
May I suggest that you set an example. Your post on Smartís shooting would have benefited from greater detail.

For example, Over his career smarts 3 point shooting has improved and the last two years he was shooting about league average.
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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2020, 06:47:51 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.

I donít love Marcusí shooting but heís certainly an effective offensive player.  35% from 3, excellent (and clutch) FT shooter, above average passer (5apg), decent driving/finishing, decent handle, boards well at 6í4Ē.  Marcus plays multiple roles on offense and defense and there is no one on the team I want on the floor in the last 5 minutes more than Smart.

His shooting selection is agonizing at times. Though he is streaky from the 3 and that certainly works in the Cís favor at times, generally I am not confident when puts up a long ball.  Do have to remember regarding these playoffs that he was de facto 3rd option from 3 as GH was hurt and Kemba wasnít Kemba. 

That said, if selling Smart high potentially adds needs like high-level/defensive size and/or sharpshooting without too much overall cost on the defensive side, certainly need to listen.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2020, 02:33:19 PM »

Online PhoSita

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.


LOL I am a lawyer bro

This isn't my job.


And actually if there's anything I've learned from being an attorney it's that there's no point in wasting your time refuting arguments that are so lacking in merit that they refute themselves and cast in doubt the worthiness of anything else the proponent of said argument happens to say
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 02:39:00 PM by PhoSita »
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2020, 04:35:16 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.


LOL I am a lawyer bro

This isn't my job.


And actually if there's anything I've learned from being an attorney it's that there's no point in wasting your time refuting arguments that are so lacking in merit that they refute themselves and cast in doubt the worthiness of anything else the proponent of said argument happens to say

So why comment at all???

Perhaps I misinterpreted your posts tone, but you must understand when you write statements like that, it comes across as rudely dismissive and arrogant.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 04:50:46 PM by shut_the_gate »

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2020, 05:17:25 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and itís not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, itís that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smartís value would be at an all time high right now as heís on a very team friendly deal and heís in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.
Name them. Because no such free agent exists in this class of free agency

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2020, 05:24:35 PM »

Online PhoSita

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue.


Here's the thing

It's not

I love all the time, depth and cogency of your arguments

If you ever become a lawyer, your win percentage would have to be 0% with that level of arrogant laziness.


LOL I am a lawyer bro

This isn't my job.


And actually if there's anything I've learned from being an attorney it's that there's no point in wasting your time refuting arguments that are so lacking in merit that they refute themselves and cast in doubt the worthiness of anything else the proponent of said argument happens to say

So why comment at all???

Perhaps I misinterpreted your posts tone, but you must understand when you write statements like that, it comes across as rudely dismissive and arrogant.

I mean yes the internet is about dunking sometimes.

Like Marcus smart would do, I suggest you brush it off and move on to the next play

You see, smarts intense focus and willingness to keep playing hard no matter how many shots he's missed or whether the opponent just scored on him is why I don't particularly care about his shooting

Smart has been willing to shoot his whole career even when he was building brick houses every night

The team is better with him. We want him to be who he is.

I get that it's not for everybody, but, again, here's the thing

It's not actually a problem

And I don't care
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain