Author Topic: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?  (Read 1901 times)

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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2020, 12:21:04 PM »

Offline ederson

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IMHO a conference finalist whould look for win now moves. We need to get "older"

I disagree. Our most experienced players were the most disappointing.

Tatum and Brown and defense will get us there if we don't screw it up. If we trade up and draft Okongwu and/or Halliburton, and if Walker, Hayward and Smart accept and adjust to second tier status, that would make us better than the Lakers if Tatum and Brown continue to develop normally. They are that good, and we are that close.

lots of ifs and smart is gone cause we traded him for the pick ....

BTW who are the experienced players ???? The 22yo Tatum and the "playoff veteran" Kemba ?

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2020, 12:35:29 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2020, 12:41:13 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Celtics should not trade Smart or Hayward to just move up in this draft.   This team is contender ready.   This is moving them in the other direction.

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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2020, 12:47:17 PM »

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.

I think it is worth saying that a 20-10 guy on a bad team is not the same a 20-10 guy on a good team. I like Collins, but box scores don't always tell the whole story.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2020, 01:05:29 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.
I think it is worth saying that a 20-10 guy on a bad team is not the same a 20-10 guy on a good team. I like Collins, but box scores don't always tell the whole story.
They always don't tell the whole story unless they're adjusted or used as data for composite box score stats like PIPM, and even then we need to do some legwork at the very least to make sense of the numbers. Pulling out the basic slash line to say that John Collins is great isn't convincing at all (although I do think that he has potential, his offence is pretty tantalising next to quality on-ball creators).

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2020, 01:11:48 PM »

Online td450

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IMHO a conference finalist whould look for win now moves. We need to get "older"

I disagree. Our most experienced players were the most disappointing.

Tatum and Brown and defense will get us there if we don't screw it up. If we trade up and draft Okongwu and/or Halliburton, and if Walker, Hayward and Smart accept and adjust to second tier status, that would make us better than the Lakers if Tatum and Brown continue to develop normally. They are that good, and we are that close.

lots of ifs and smart is gone cause we traded him for the pick ....

BTW who are the experienced players ???? The 22yo Tatum and the "playoff veteran" Kemba ?

There are always lots of ifs. There are 32 teams and one champ.

I didn't say trade Smart. I said we don't need to get older. We should be able to move up without trading Smart. If I could somehow get both Okongwu and Halliburton by moving Kemba and some non-essential assets, I'd do it in a second. I don't see Kemba as important or even particularly useful to the team's future.

Walker Hayward and Smart are our most experienced players. They all had decent moments, but when the season was on the line, none of them provided end of game poise and execution.

If we win a title any time soon its because Tatum and Brown can handle the pressure, not them.



Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2020, 03:03:14 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.
I think it is worth saying that a 20-10 guy on a bad team is not the same a 20-10 guy on a good team. I like Collins, but box scores don't always tell the whole story.
They always don't tell the whole story unless they're adjusted or used as data for composite box score stats like PIPM, and even then we need to do some legwork at the very least to make sense of the numbers. Pulling out the basic slash line to say that John Collins is great isn't convincing at all (although I do think that he has potential, his offence is pretty tantalizing next to quality on-ball creators).

Uhhhhh...I never said that his slash line in Atlanta suggests greatness or that he'd put up that line here. I said Atlanta isn't trading a young productive player for an old guy who can't stay on the court anymore.

Now, I did suggest that how he scores and his athleticism make him super intriguing and why he'd flourish next to Brown and Tatum in a Brad Steven's system for many years.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2020, 03:08:54 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2020, 03:10:26 PM »

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Hawks wouldn't trade a 22 yo 20/10 guy shooting 40% 3pt for a broken down 30 yr old wing who doesn't fit their time frame...Especially on a 1 yr contract with the ability to overpay him and give up no talent next fall.

That said, Atlanta should definitely want Smart (and prob the 14). He's a culture changer which is exactly what they need. If they get a young PF at 6, say Toppin. And have a target at 14....then that trade is a slam dunk for them. Smart is a young leader, all defensive muscle to pair with Young's scoring. Add Hunter, Reddish and Toppin's athleticism on at the wing/forward. Overpay for a vet PF/C like Ibaka along with Capella and Huerter and the 14th pick... they'd have a squad that could compete in the east next year and still have cap room to add a FA next fall (Hayward perhaps haha).

As for the C's, Collins makes a ton of sense, even if it requires an overpay for the Celtics. He fits the Brown and Tatum timeframe and his strengths/weaknesses seem to fit the team and system nicely.  Three big, athletic 2 way wings/forwards under 23 who can all shoot? Yes, please. Collins 3 pt shooting will spread the floor, he can run the pnr and finish at the rim. Atlanta seems to want him to be more a shot creator and defensive stopper, which he is not...but he doesn't need to be that on the C's. He can move his feet, switch and block some shots...our system will hide some weaknesses. It also allows us to start our best 5 (Walker, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Collins) by moving Theis to the bench it adds some big man depth. It would also open the door for Langford to get some run and unlock some of that potential he has shown.

I hope Ainge is targeting Collins...and Atlanta is impatient enough to move him.
I think it is worth saying that a 20-10 guy on a bad team is not the same a 20-10 guy on a good team. I like Collins, but box scores don't always tell the whole story.
They always don't tell the whole story unless they're adjusted or used as data for composite box score stats like PIPM, and even then we need to do some legwork at the very least to make sense of the numbers. Pulling out the basic slash line to say that John Collins is great isn't convincing at all (although I do think that he has potential, his offence is pretty tantalizing next to quality on-ball creators).

Uhhhhh...I never said that his slash line in Atlanta suggests greatness or that he'd put up that line here. I said Atlanta isn't trading a young productive player for an old guy who can't stay on the court anymore.

Now, I did suggest that how he scores and his athleticism make him super intriguing and why he'd flourish next to Brown and Tatum in a Brad Steven's system for many years.

Just to be clear, I know what you said. I do think you are painting Hayward in the worst possible light and Collins in a very positive light. I was trying to take some shine off Collins with my comment. I'd also suggest that Hayward is much more valuable than you make him seem.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2020, 03:15:26 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think there are a lot of teams that would be interested in trading down.

This draft is supposedly devoid of star power. The last “future star potential” guy is Wiseman. Once he’s gone teams will be receptive to the idea of getting more bites at the apple. Now there’s a reason people will want to trade down. It’s because even if we can get up to 6, 7, 8 etc we won’t be getting a different tiered prospect than we could get at 14 in all likelihood.

The Suns at 10 would almost certainly be interested as would the Spurs at 11 the Pistons at 7 and the Knicks at 8.

I wouldn’t trade up at all unless Okongwu or Hayes is available. Getting either would be awesome in my book. Otherwise stay put at 14 and take whichever guard you like best of Terry, Maxey, Anthony, Lewis or Hampton.
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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2020, 03:21:02 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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I think there are a lot of teams that would be interested in trading down.

This draft is supposedly devoid of star power. The last “future star potential” guy is Wiseman. Once he’s gone teams will be receptive to the idea of getting more bites at the apple. Now there’s a reason people will want to trade down. It’s because even if we can get up to 6, 7, 8 etc we won’t be getting a different tiered prospect than we could get at 14 in all likelihood.

The Suns at 10 would almost certainly be interested as would the Spurs at 11 the Pistons at 7 and the Knicks at 8.

I wouldn’t trade up at all unless Okongwu or Hayes is available. Getting either would be awesome in my book. Otherwise stay put at 14 and take whichever guard you like best of Terry, Maxey, Anthony, Lewis or Hampton.
There was an article on the wizards SB nation site about trading down their pick for our 3 picks.. I don’t quite like it but I can get behind something like this:
Wizards trade 9 plus 37 plus Ish Smith
Celtics trade 14 plus 26 plus 30 plus poirier plus Carsen plus green to make salaries work

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2020, 03:32:01 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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I think there are a lot of teams that would be interested in trading down.

This draft is supposedly devoid of star power. The last “future star potential” guy is Wiseman. Once he’s gone teams will be receptive to the idea of getting more bites at the apple. Now there’s a reason people will want to trade down. It’s because even if we can get up to 6, 7, 8 etc we won’t be getting a different tiered prospect than we could get at 14 in all likelihood.

The Suns at 10 would almost certainly be interested as would the Spurs at 11 the Pistons at 7 and the Knicks at 8.

I wouldn’t trade up at all unless Okongwu or Hayes is available. Getting either would be awesome in my book. Otherwise stay put at 14 and take whichever guard you like best of Terry, Maxey, Anthony, Lewis or Hampton.
There was an article on the wizards SB nation site about trading down their pick for our 3 picks.. I don’t quite like it but I can get behind something like this:
Wizards trade 9 plus 37 plus Ish Smith
Celtics trade 14 plus 26 plus 30 plus poirier plus Carsen plus green to make salaries work

I like the idea of trading up to #9 for the right player, getting #37 is an added bonus, and love idea of moving Porier + Edwards. I do not like the idea of adding Smith. Backing up a small 30+ year old PG with another 30+ year old small guard really would hurt the Cs in the playoffs. Regular season it would be fine but come playoffs Ish would be out of the rotation.
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Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2020, 04:18:07 PM »

Online liam

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I think there are a lot of teams that would be interested in trading down.

This draft is supposedly devoid of star power. The last “future star potential” guy is Wiseman. Once he’s gone teams will be receptive to the idea of getting more bites at the apple. Now there’s a reason people will want to trade down. It’s because even if we can get up to 6, 7, 8 etc we won’t be getting a different tiered prospect than we could get at 14 in all likelihood.

The Suns at 10 would almost certainly be interested as would the Spurs at 11 the Pistons at 7 and the Knicks at 8.

I wouldn’t trade up at all unless Okongwu or Hayes is available. Getting either would be awesome in my book. Otherwise stay put at 14 and take whichever guard you like best of Terry, Maxey, Anthony, Lewis or Hampton.

I think Wiseman is worth a swing for the fences and I would also take a shot with Vassell. Vassell maybe redundant to what we already have but he looks to be an excellent two way player. Other than those two I'm not sure I would I'd want to trade up.

Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2020, 04:34:30 PM »

Offline ederson

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There are always lots of ifs. There are 32 teams and one champ.

I didn't say trade Smart. I said we don't need to get older. We should be able to move up without trading Smart. If I could somehow get both Okongwu and Halliburton by moving Kemba and some non-essential assets, I'd do it in a second. I don't see Kemba as important or even particularly useful to the team's future.

Walker Hayward and Smart are our most experienced players. They all had decent moments, but when the season was on the line, none of them provided end of game poise and execution.

Kemba had played just once in the playoffs , GH was injured and Smart won us a couple of games

Of course Kemba will not be around during JT's peak.. Does this mean we have to resign from contending and starting a mini rebuild till we draft the right players ??? The team reached the conference final with a key player injured. It makes zero sense to let a starting player go for a draft peak in questionable draft and waste a season or two trying to make an all star out of him


Re: Would Atlanta Hawks deal the 6th pick?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2020, 07:08:22 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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Never, ever, ever, ever, ever trade Marcus Smart.


Nooooope.

I know Smart is our leader and perhaps the best guard defender in the league but his shooting is a major issue, and it’s not that he is not a good shooter or has poor mechanics, it’s that he is very poor at his shot selection and that is a huge problem for a contender because not only do players like that not win games...they lose them.

Smart’s value would be at an all time high right now as he’s on a very team friendly deal and he’s in his prime. We can get a veteran free agent to replace most of his defence for cheaper then his deal and get Haliburton whom is better suited next to someone like Tatum and Hayward.

The comp for Tatum has been Bryant or to a lesser extent stylistically Jordan and they both had defensive catch and shoot guards who can create when needed and know their role (Fisher & Ron Harper), Tyrese can be that guy for us long term and short term a great of the bench role player.