Author Topic: TRADE IDEAS  (Read 5215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2020, 11:08:58 AM »

Online Birdman

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5537
  • Tommy Points: 131
GH has given me the impression that he would sign a longer term at discount(i am not saying he has to)

So although i can see him agreeing to 80m/4y i doubt he does it  for a sign and trade
Geez hope not
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2020, 11:15:04 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42609
  • Tommy Points: -27084
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I wouldn’t be very opposed to trading smart at his peak value.
I saw on goldenstateofmind proposals to trade their 2 pick for smart. I think we may need to add 30 to get both sides to agree on the deal.
Maybe target Beal with the 2 pick:
To GSW Smart (into trade exception) plus 30 pick
To Wizards 2 pick plus Romeo plus Carsen plus Green plus Poirier
To Celtics Beal
No way GSW gives up the #2 pick for Smart.  Also taking him into their trade exception would mean a big increase in their repeater tax payment.
That’s why we are giving up the 30 pick. Well I think the 2 pick is what his value is. Certain teams view Smart higher than others.
Another issue golden state have is that if they want to trade for a star that is paid accordingly they have to trade Wiggins for salary matching and his trade value is at its low (negative probably).

Smart would be awesome for Golden State. He would be their new Iguodala. It would be a big boost to their title hoops next season and for the next few years to come.

It seems crazy but the draft is so weak at the top that it does make some sense. This is the weakest draft I can remember since that 2000 draft. And getting a player of Smart's ability is superior to many of the players at the top of that 2000 draft and that are being talked about at the top of this 2020 draft.

The only guy I am taking over Smart right now is the big center James Wiseman. Maybe Okongwu - I am not sure - how much offensive skill does he have? How much of his game can you replace with a FA big man like Tristan Thompson? Haliburton is tempting but I would be genuinely surprised if Haliburton out-performed Smart over the next 5 years.

Ideally, I would like to get somebody better than Smart for the #2 pick. Still though, it does make quite a lot of sense to me. GSW going for one of the finest glue guys in the league to finish off their team rather than another shot-creator since they already have a lot of that in Steph, Klay and Wiggins. Smart being somebody who could make a larger impact on their team than many of the mediocre 20ppg scorers in this league.
Well we are getting Beal from wizards in this trade. He’s proven himself as a scorer in the playoffs. He’s also one of Tatums best friends. Beal is probably still better than Brown and should be better than Hayward and Kemba given their questionable health.

We cannot get Bradley Beal without giving up one of our long-term contracts--Brown or Walker. Otherwise, we would be against the hard cap in 2021 without having a full roster.

As a trade, the idea is solid but needs a little more balancing in my opinion, but the Celtics cannot put themselves in that position.
There is no sign and trade and or full MLE used. Why would we be against hard cap? High tax bill yes... but owners have to be ready to cover high luxury taxes.. see other threads from yesterday ... if owners are going to be balking at the prospect of luxury tax we might as well start rebuilding again.

My understanding is that there's still a limit above the luxury tax that you aren't allowed to go into to.

Nope.  There’s no hard cap on teams in most circumstances, just really expensive penalties.

The hard cap only applies if we acquire a player via sign and trade, if we use the full MLE, or if we use the biannual exception.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2020, 11:26:15 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4472
  • Tommy Points: 652
I wouldn’t be very opposed to trading smart at his peak value.
I saw on goldenstateofmind proposals to trade their 2 pick for smart. I think we may need to add 30 to get both sides to agree on the deal.
Maybe target Beal with the 2 pick:
To GSW Smart (into trade exception) plus 30 pick
To Wizards 2 pick plus Romeo plus Carsen plus Green plus Poirier
To Celtics Beal
No way GSW gives up the #2 pick for Smart.  Also taking him into their trade exception would mean a big increase in their repeater tax payment.
That’s why we are giving up the 30 pick. Well I think the 2 pick is what his value is. Certain teams view Smart higher than others.
Another issue golden state have is that if they want to trade for a star that is paid accordingly they have to trade Wiggins for salary matching and his trade value is at its low (negative probably).

Smart would be awesome for Golden State. He would be their new Iguodala. It would be a big boost to their title hoops next season and for the next few years to come.

It seems crazy but the draft is so weak at the top that it does make some sense. This is the weakest draft I can remember since that 2000 draft. And getting a player of Smart's ability is superior to many of the players at the top of that 2000 draft and that are being talked about at the top of this 2020 draft.

The only guy I am taking over Smart right now is the big center James Wiseman. Maybe Okongwu - I am not sure - how much offensive skill does he have? How much of his game can you replace with a FA big man like Tristan Thompson? Haliburton is tempting but I would be genuinely surprised if Haliburton out-performed Smart over the next 5 years.

Ideally, I would like to get somebody better than Smart for the #2 pick. Still though, it does make quite a lot of sense to me. GSW going for one of the finest glue guys in the league to finish off their team rather than another shot-creator since they already have a lot of that in Steph, Klay and Wiggins. Smart being somebody who could make a larger impact on their team than many of the mediocre 20ppg scorers in this league.
Well we are getting Beal from wizards in this trade. He’s proven himself as a scorer in the playoffs. He’s also one of Tatums best friends. Beal is probably still better than Brown and should be better than Hayward and Kemba given their questionable health.

We cannot get Bradley Beal without giving up one of our long-term contracts--Brown or Walker. Otherwise, we would be against the hard cap in 2021 without having a full roster.

As a trade, the idea is solid but needs a little more balancing in my opinion, but the Celtics cannot put themselves in that position.
There is no sign and trade and or full MLE used. Why would we be against hard cap? High tax bill yes... but owners have to be ready to cover high luxury taxes.. see other threads from yesterday ... if owners are going to be balking at the prospect of luxury tax we might as well start rebuilding again.

My understanding is that there's still a limit above the luxury tax that you aren't allowed to go into to.

Nope.  There’s no hard cap on teams in most circumstances, just really expensive penalties.

The hard cap only applies if we acquire a player via sign and trade, if we use the full MLE, or if we use the biannual exception.

That's helpful. Thanks.

The penalties become prohibitive at some point as well. I'm curious how much Wyc made on the Cs last year, and how much is feasible they would pay in luxury tax.

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2020, 11:29:07 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42609
  • Tommy Points: -27084
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I wouldn’t be very opposed to trading smart at his peak value.
I saw on goldenstateofmind proposals to trade their 2 pick for smart. I think we may need to add 30 to get both sides to agree on the deal.
Maybe target Beal with the 2 pick:
To GSW Smart (into trade exception) plus 30 pick
To Wizards 2 pick plus Romeo plus Carsen plus Green plus Poirier
To Celtics Beal
No way GSW gives up the #2 pick for Smart.  Also taking him into their trade exception would mean a big increase in their repeater tax payment.
That’s why we are giving up the 30 pick. Well I think the 2 pick is what his value is. Certain teams view Smart higher than others.
Another issue golden state have is that if they want to trade for a star that is paid accordingly they have to trade Wiggins for salary matching and his trade value is at its low (negative probably).

Smart would be awesome for Golden State. He would be their new Iguodala. It would be a big boost to their title hoops next season and for the next few years to come.

It seems crazy but the draft is so weak at the top that it does make some sense. This is the weakest draft I can remember since that 2000 draft. And getting a player of Smart's ability is superior to many of the players at the top of that 2000 draft and that are being talked about at the top of this 2020 draft.

The only guy I am taking over Smart right now is the big center James Wiseman. Maybe Okongwu - I am not sure - how much offensive skill does he have? How much of his game can you replace with a FA big man like Tristan Thompson? Haliburton is tempting but I would be genuinely surprised if Haliburton out-performed Smart over the next 5 years.

Ideally, I would like to get somebody better than Smart for the #2 pick. Still though, it does make quite a lot of sense to me. GSW going for one of the finest glue guys in the league to finish off their team rather than another shot-creator since they already have a lot of that in Steph, Klay and Wiggins. Smart being somebody who could make a larger impact on their team than many of the mediocre 20ppg scorers in this league.
Well we are getting Beal from wizards in this trade. He’s proven himself as a scorer in the playoffs. He’s also one of Tatums best friends. Beal is probably still better than Brown and should be better than Hayward and Kemba given their questionable health.

We cannot get Bradley Beal without giving up one of our long-term contracts--Brown or Walker. Otherwise, we would be against the hard cap in 2021 without having a full roster.

As a trade, the idea is solid but needs a little more balancing in my opinion, but the Celtics cannot put themselves in that position.
There is no sign and trade and or full MLE used. Why would we be against hard cap? High tax bill yes... but owners have to be ready to cover high luxury taxes.. see other threads from yesterday ... if owners are going to be balking at the prospect of luxury tax we might as well start rebuilding again.

My understanding is that there's still a limit above the luxury tax that you aren't allowed to go into to.

Nope.  There’s no hard cap on teams in most circumstances, just really expensive penalties.

The hard cap only applies if we acquire a player via sign and trade, if we use the full MLE, or if we use the biannual exception.

That's helpful. Thanks.

The penalties become prohibitive at some point as well. I'm curious how much Wyc made on the Cs last year, and how much is feasible they would pay in luxury tax.

Hard to say in 2020.  I’ve got to think that the Celtics operated at a loss for the first time since he took over the team.

That said, the three prior seasons the team made $273 million in profit, so they’re not exactly hurting.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2020, 09:40:49 PM »

Offline Uncle_Stingfinger

  • Romeo Langford
  • Posts: 21
  • Tommy Points: 0
would a smart/langford for aaron gordon  or some version make sense?

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2020, 11:18:41 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23678
  • Tommy Points: 9387
would a smart/langford for aaron gordon  or some version make sense?
not to me it doesn't

Smart's the better defender and our backup PG and Romeo is still a top prospect that has shown he can play solid D in the limited minutes he's played this year.  Also, Smart has shown that with our switching D he can guard 1-5 on the court

Gordon is still offensively challenged (although better than his rookie year which isn't saying much) and is primarily a PF and not a real option to play at the 5 even in small ball.  he's not going to displace any of the current starters due to them being better players except for Theis who Gordon would be a poor replacement for at center

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2020, 12:08:28 AM »

Offline LilRip

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4704
  • Tommy Points: 209
Hayward + 1st rd pick for James Johnson and #1 pick (and other filler or 3rd team)

Would you do it?

Wolves get help now for Russell and KAT. We get #1 pick for whoever you guys are eyeing.
- LilRip

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2020, 12:47:46 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7003
  • Tommy Points: 178
If we can live with Tatum at the 4. How about the same package I mentioned for KAT you do to instead

Smart, Hayward, all three 2020 first, and a future first.
for
Beal, Ish Smith and T. Bryant.

Gets Beal plus solves back up big and point guard need.

PG-Walker, Smith, Waters
SG-Beal, Langford, Edwards
SF-Brown, Semi, Green
PF-Tatum, GW, RW
C-Theis, Bryant, VP

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2020, 01:20:23 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4106
  • Tommy Points: 994
I think the Celtics are a lot closer than most of you realize. And more importantly, the organization believes in this roster.

A few minor changes, sure. But there will be no major moves. Hayward/Kemba healthy throughout the playoffs and there is a very realistic chance we win the title this year.

If we see expected progression from the Jays, and Kemba and Hayward can stay healthy, that alone will make us a serious contender.

Danny’s challenge this offseason is to fill in the holes.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1629
  • Tommy Points: 200
  • Always offline from 9pm till 3am
Hayward + 1st rd pick for James Johnson and #1 pick (and other filler or 3rd team)

Would you do it?

Wolves get help now for Russell and KAT. We get #1 pick for whoever you guys are eyeing.

Sure I would, but Wolves won't give up their #1 pick for Hayward. Even though he'd fill a huge need for them.

They're only trading that pick for guys like George, Thompson, Beal, Brown, Simmons, Siakam or Green. They may trade down a few places for a non-All Star but not 1 => 14.

I'm not even sure whether I'd want the #1 pick. Probably need to take Wiseman there then.
But the cost of trading up to there is going to be too high to make sense.
Rationalism over beliefs

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2020, 08:22:12 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1629
  • Tommy Points: 200
  • Always offline from 9pm till 3am
I think the Celtics are a lot closer than most of you realize. And more importantly, the organization believes in this roster.

A few minor changes, sure. But there will be no major moves. Hayward/Kemba healthy throughout the playoffs and there is a very realistic chance we win the title this year.

If we see expected progression from the Jays, and Kemba and Hayward can stay healthy, that alone will make us a serious contender.

Danny’s challenge this offseason is to fill in the holes.

If that's true then I find it bewildering that we didn't add any veteran role players to the bench that could have relieved some minutes and pressure of our starters. Given the performances, injuries and contract issues of our 'veterans' Walker, Wanamaker, Hayward, Ojeleye, Theis and Kanter I'm not as willing as you anymore to push the goals. I think the Celtics can start their peak 2-3 years from now.

Tatum, Brown and Smart carried the team when it mattered. That's the core for me. We have some talented young guys that have lots of potential and 3 first round picks in the draft. Slowly build for the future is my device with Smart (26), Brown (23), Tatum (22), R.Williams (22), G.Williams (21) and Langford (20).

I'm not saying we should dump Walker, Hayward and Theis for just any offer. But if Hayward won't extend for a reasonable price (70/3 - 80/4 or something) I would trade him before the deadline to get us out of the luxury tax. And Walker is a contract that will probably look worse and worse over time, get a cheaper (borderline)-All Star back and I'm happy. What the playoffs have shown is that Theis can't be your lone starting big and he's an expiring contract, in a good deal I'd let him go as well even though I like him.
Rationalism over beliefs

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2020, 09:31:14 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23678
  • Tommy Points: 9387
Hayward + 1st rd pick for James Johnson and #1 pick (and other filler or 3rd team)

Would you do it?

Wolves get help now for Russell and KAT. We get #1 pick for whoever you guys are eyeing.

Sure I would, but Wolves won't give up their #1 pick for Hayward. Even though he'd fill a huge need for them.

They're only trading that pick for guys like George, Thompson, Beal, Brown, Simmons, Siakam or Green. They may trade down a few places for a non-All Star but not 1 => 14.

I'm not even sure whether I'd want the #1 pick. Probably need to take Wiseman there then.
But the cost of trading up to there is going to be too high to make sense.
the #1 pick in this draft doesn't have the value in other drafts due to a lack of a bonafide star player.  This year the top picks don't really project to be more than solid starters.  Not giving up Hayward and a first for a worse player and someone who you hope would turn into a good starter. 

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2020, 09:32:56 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23678
  • Tommy Points: 9387
If we can live with Tatum at the 4. How about the same package I mentioned for KAT you do to instead

Smart, Hayward, all three 2020 first, and a future first.
for
Beal, Ish Smith and T. Bryant.

Gets Beal plus solves back up big and point guard need.

PG-Walker, Smith, Waters
SG-Beal, Langford, Edwards
SF-Brown, Semi, Green
PF-Tatum, GW, RW
C-Theis, Bryant, VP
I doubt Washington does it but I wouldn't object (except for giving up 4 first round picks -- pull the future pick and I'd do it)

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2020, 11:36:17 AM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Tommy Points: 345
If we can live with Tatum at the 4. How about the same package I mentioned for KAT you do to instead

Smart, Hayward, all three 2020 first, and a future first.
for
Beal, Ish Smith and T. Bryant.

Gets Beal plus solves back up big and point guard need.

PG-Walker, Smith, Waters
SG-Beal, Langford, Edwards
SF-Brown, Semi, Green
PF-Tatum, GW, RW
C-Theis, Bryant, VP
I doubt Washington does it but I wouldn't object (except for giving up 4 first round picks -- pull the future pick and I'd do it)

I couldn't do this one emotionally...I can only send Smart and Hayward to excellent destinations.

But technically speaking of course this is great.  But I would want Troy Brown Jr. instead of Ish Smith (I'm ready to play Tremont)..., Or, if that's unacceptable, then add Grant Williams for Troy Brown Jr.

Re: TRADE IDEAS
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2020, 11:51:18 AM »

Offline Uncle_Stingfinger

  • Romeo Langford
  • Posts: 21
  • Tommy Points: 0
washington doesn't want to give up beal.  full stop.   and any deal would have to include jaylen. 

i keep hearing this draft has no superstars worth trading up for,  sure it does.  they said the same thing in the doncic draft.  it wasn't perceived the way it is now.   look how that turned out.  the key is identifying the guy.