Idea: Trade with Indy

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think Turner would disappoint you.  It’s debatable how much of an upgrade he is over Theis.

I agree with this. The one caveat is that Theis is basically playing at his ceiling as a player. I don't think he can contribute much more than he already is. Turner, however, is not near his ceiling with his ability to contribute to wins. It would be an upside move to trade for him, and it would take time for him to get there.

I don't know how good Turner is or not.  But no need to compare him to Theis as there's nothing wrong with having both him and Theis (if Turner is judged good enough by Danny for the trade to take place).

My point isn't one or the other. My point is showing that its possible that Turner could contribute to a greater degree than Theis.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Let's get crazy. There are rumblings that Oladipo doesn't want to be in Indy either. What about Hayward and Walker to Indiana for Oladipo, Turner, and McDermott (with Lamb going to a third team for draft compensation). The Pacers would have to be interested in Walker on a long-term contract and Hayward just bought a house there. Obviously, the Cs would have to be confident in Oladipo's health.

The Cs would have room under the luxury tax for a full MLE. If they could get someone like Davis Bertans, the Cs would have Turner-Tatum-Brown-Smart-Oladipo with Bertans-Theis-Williams-Williams-Langford off the bench. Ideally, they could get another ball-handler, but that's a pretty good team.

[keevsnick]

I think Turner would disappoint you.  It’s debatable how much of an upgrade he is over Theis.

I agree with this. The one caveat is that Theis is basically playing at his ceiling as a player. I don't think he can contribute much more than he already is. Turner, however, is not near his ceiling with his ability to contribute to wins. It would be an upside move to trade for him, and it would take time for him to get there.

I don't know how good Turner is or not.  But no need to compare him to Theis as there's nothing wrong with having both him and Theis (if Turner is judged good enough by Danny for the trade to take place).

Would you trade Hayward for another Theis?

no.  But not sure that represents Turner.  But if it does, then no.  I would hope in a yes scenario that Turner offers more paint presence and rim protection than Theis, such that Theis comes off the bench.

Paint presence defensively?  Because he’s definitely not an interior player on offense.

Check out the “per 100 possessions” stats.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Daniel+Theis&player_id1_select=Daniel+Theis&player_id1=theisda01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Myles+Turner&player_id2_select=Myles+Turner&player_id2=turnemy01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2020

Turner will give you 1 extra block per 100 possessions, but Theis is even or superior just about everywhere else.

Career wise Turner shoots 35.7% from 3 on twice the volume per game that Daniel Theis (34.3%) does. He also has to play next to another down low scorer while Theis is literally always the lone big in a stretched floor. I think there's a pretty good case that put in the context of the Celtics system (where Stevens almost always gets the most out of guys) that Turner would be a clear upgrade offensively over Theis, especially for what the Celtics would be asking him to do. I think he's a more imposing rim protector as well (higher block rate). I think he fouls WAY less (4.4 per 100 vs 6.7). Rebounding is slightly worse playing next to Sabonis, literally one of the leagues best rebounders.

There's also the fact that against Bam he held up A LOT better than Theis just did. Put up 16/11/ 4 blocks vs Bams 15/11/5 assists. He shot 60% and held Bam to 48% shooting and 4.3 FTA per game. Meanwhile against the c's Bam went 22/11/5 with 60% shooting and 7.5 FTA per game. 

Now is all that worth 18 million vs 5 million for Theis? I don't know, but Theis is only making that for one more year then he's gonna get more properly paid. Turner has 3 more years at 18 million, not a BAD contract. He's also only 5 months old than Jaylen, and 2 years older than tatum. He could grow with this core.

Its not like a crazy idea. I think alot of it revolves around the idea of thinking Turner probably has more upside against high level playoff competition than Theis does, and that in the c's system with Brad Stevens you'd get the absolute best version of him.

A Hayward/Turner deal could hinge on what else would be involved around those two.

[Uncle_Stingfinger]

Let's get crazy. There are rumblings that Oladipo doesn't want to be in Indy either. What about Hayward and Walker to Indiana for Oladipo, Turner, and McDermott (with Lamb going to a third team for draft compensation). The Pacers would have to be interested in Walker on a long-term contract and Hayward just bought a house there. Obviously, the Cs would have to be confident in Oladipo's health.

The Cs would have room under the luxury tax for a full MLE. If they could get someone like Davis Bertans, the Cs would have Turner-Tatum-Brown-Smart-Oladipo with Bertans-Theis-Williams-Williams-Langford off the bench. Ideally, they could get another ball-handler, but that's a pretty good team.

I'd try to get a Oladipo, Brown, Tatum trio.  Smart, Kemba and Hayward would be on the table to me.   Not sure that does much for Indiana with those players ages.

[jambr380]

Let's get crazy. There are rumblings that Oladipo doesn't want to be in Indy either. What about Hayward and Walker to Indiana for Oladipo, Turner, and McDermott (with Lamb going to a third team for draft compensation). The Pacers would have to be interested in Walker on a long-term contract and Hayward just bought a house there. Obviously, the Cs would have to be confident in Oladipo's health.

The Cs would have room under the luxury tax for a full MLE. If they could get someone like Davis Bertans, the Cs would have Turner-Tatum-Brown-Smart-Oladipo with Bertans-Theis-Williams-Williams-Langford off the bench. Ideally, they could get another ball-handler, but that's a pretty good team.

I'd try to get a Oladipo, Brown, Tatum trio.  Smart, Kemba and Hayward would be on the table to me.   Not sure that does much for Indiana with those players ages.

Yep, Hayward/Smart for Oladipo/Turner and then deal Kemba for Simmons. Easy-peasy!   

[Vermont Green]

I am going to expand the trade to fuse this idea into an earlier idea that I had for a trade with Philly:

Boston
Simmons
Horford
McDermott

Indy
Hayward
Boston 2020 First (#26)

Philly
Walker
Turner

Boston gets some size, assume we start Simmons at PF.  Philly gets a real PG in Kemba plus a different kind of big who should play better next to Embiid over Horford.  Indy get a still good hometown player and a draft pick to compensate for the added salary for 1 year of Hayward.  I know, there are always a million reasons that a trade won't happen but I like Simmons and think he would be a good fit on the Celtics.  We take on Horford but McDermott is a nice add.

Maybe even ask Philly to send a 2021 first to Indy.

https://tradenba.com/trades/N0cHVp3KT

[gouki88]

Turner is a big no. I've said it a lot all over here, but his terrible rebounding, woeful passing and inconsistent shooting doesn't offset his athletic defensive prowess. But, similar to Theis, he gets abused by powerful bigs.

I love Sabonis. One of the best rebounders in the competition, and probably a top-5 passing big. That said, I don't give up JB for him. JB has made a huge leap this year, and I think he can make another leap again next year given the opportunity. Very reminiscent of Jimmy Butler's first All-Star year before his playmaking had made the leap.

[coco]

JT and JB are untouchable. 
I wouldn’t mind exploring how to get Brogdon... without giving up those two.

[jambr380]

That's quite the trade there VG. We are giving up - and taking on - quite a bit to commit to Simmons, but it could be worth it.

Not sure PHI has any desire to take on Turner, but their fan base has been talking about Buddy Hield a lot these last few days as a possible addition. If you expand it to 4 team, I'd have to imagine SAC would gladly make a Hield for Turner trade.

I should note that there is almost a 0% chance of this happening. I could see Hayward possibly getting moved, but Kemba just signed a max with us to come back to New England and compete. PHI is close and he would still have the opportunity to compete, but it's tough to do that to a guy - especially as nice as Kemba - after just one year on a max FA signing.

[RPGenerate]

I am going to expand the trade to fuse this idea into an earlier idea that I had for a trade with Philly:

Boston
Simmons
Horford
McDermott

Indy
Hayward
Boston 2020 First (#26)

Philly
Walker
Turner

Boston gets some size, assume we start Simmons at PF.  Philly gets a real PG in Kemba plus a different kind of big who should play better next to Embiid over Horford.  Indy get a still good hometown player and a draft pick to compensate for the added salary for 1 year of Hayward.  I know, there are always a million reasons that a trade won't happen but I like Simmons and think he would be a good fit on the Celtics.  We take on Horford but McDermott is a nice add.

Maybe even ask Philly to send a 2021 first to Indy.

https://tradenba.com/trades/N0cHVp3KT

I don't think a Turner/Embiid frontcourt is remotely plausible in this era of NBA.

[gouki88]

I am going to expand the trade to fuse this idea into an earlier idea that I had for a trade with Philly:

Boston
Simmons
Horford
McDermott

Indy
Hayward
Boston 2020 First (#26)

Philly
Walker
Turner

Boston gets some size, assume we start Simmons at PF.  Philly gets a real PG in Kemba plus a different kind of big who should play better next to Embiid over Horford.  Indy get a still good hometown player and a draft pick to compensate for the added salary for 1 year of Hayward.  I know, there are always a million reasons that a trade won't happen but I like Simmons and think he would be a good fit on the Celtics.  We take on Horford but McDermott is a nice add.

Maybe even ask Philly to send a 2021 first to Indy.

https://tradenba.com/trades/N0cHVp3KT

To be honest, and this might sound a bit petty, but I don't want Horford back after he left us for Philly's money. He made his bed, he can lie in it. Also, given his contract is one of the worst in the NBA, right up there with Tobias Harris' and Andrew Wiggins', we need much more compensation than McDermott.

Simmons would potentially be quite good here, but given his glaring limitations giving up our recently signed All-Star PG and borderline All-Star for an All-Star and a quickly ageing dud is not wise IMO

[Vermont Green]

That's quite the trade there VG. We are giving up - and taking on - quite a bit to commit to Simmons, but it could be worth it.

Not sure PHI has any desire to take on Turner, but their fan base has been talking about Buddy Hield a lot these last few days as a possible addition. If you expand it to 4 team, I'd have to imagine SAC would gladly make a Hield for Turner trade.

I should note that there is almost a 0% chance of this happening. I could see Hayward possibly getting moved, but Kemba just signed a max with us to come back to New England and compete. PHI is close and he would still have the opportunity to compete, but it's tough to do that to a guy - especially as nice as Kemba - after just one year on a max FA signing.

I agree with this.  I am not suggesting this will happen either, just playing around with Trades.  I do think Kemba would be traded though for the right deal.  I don't feel they are looking to dump him or anything like that, but he could be traded.

[Vermont Green]

I am going to expand the trade to fuse this idea into an earlier idea that I had for a trade with Philly:

Boston
Simmons
Horford
McDermott

Indy
Hayward
Boston 2020 First (#26)

Philly
Walker
Turner

Boston gets some size, assume we start Simmons at PF.  Philly gets a real PG in Kemba plus a different kind of big who should play better next to Embiid over Horford.  Indy get a still good hometown player and a draft pick to compensate for the added salary for 1 year of Hayward.  I know, there are always a million reasons that a trade won't happen but I like Simmons and think he would be a good fit on the Celtics.  We take on Horford but McDermott is a nice add.

Maybe even ask Philly to send a 2021 first to Indy.

https://tradenba.com/trades/N0cHVp3KT

I don't think a Turner/Embiid frontcourt is remotely plausible in this era of NBA.

It is an improvement for them over an Embiid/Horford front court.  The real reason they are doing this trade is to get Kemba Walker, swapping Horford for Turner is secondary.  I do think Turner does more for Philly than Horford considering the presence of Embiid so this would be an improvement for them.

[Vermont Green]

I am going to expand the trade to fuse this idea into an earlier idea that I had for a trade with Philly:

Boston
Simmons
Horford
McDermott

Indy
Hayward
Boston 2020 First (#26)

Philly
Walker
Turner

Boston gets some size, assume we start Simmons at PF.  Philly gets a real PG in Kemba plus a different kind of big who should play better next to Embiid over Horford.  Indy get a still good hometown player and a draft pick to compensate for the added salary for 1 year of Hayward.  I know, there are always a million reasons that a trade won't happen but I like Simmons and think he would be a good fit on the Celtics.  We take on Horford but McDermott is a nice add.

Maybe even ask Philly to send a 2021 first to Indy.

https://tradenba.com/trades/N0cHVp3KT

To be honest, and this might sound a bit petty, but I don't want Horford back after he left us for Philly's money. He made his bed, he can lie in it. Also, given his contract is one of the worst in the NBA, right up there with Tobias Harris' and Andrew Wiggins', we need much more compensation than McDermott.

Simmons would potentially be quite good here, but given his glaring limitations giving up our recently signed All-Star PG and borderline All-Star for an All-Star and a quickly ageing dud is not wise IMO

I am not thrilled to have to take Horford back of course.  It is a bad contract.  I do think Horford would be better on the Celtics than on Philly so I am not looking at getting back the Philly version of Horford,  I imagine something a little better than that, but still not commensurate with the contract as you say.

Smart - Brown - Tatum - Simmons - Horford

I like that for a couple of years while we try to find a younger big that can play with this group.  And Walker should be a good fit with Philly, work well with Embiid.  This trade as I state it will not happen, I know that, it needs some work still.  But I think there is potential here for something.

[LilRip]

No way are we trading Kemba. He just signed a max with us and plus, I think he’s a big reason the chemistry is so good.

But Simmons is definitely an intriguing talent.

How about instead of Kemba, we ship out Smart and Hayward to get Simmons. Philly likely says no but they might think about it if we absorb Horford’s terrible contract too (somehow. Idk how. Haven’t crunched any numbers)