Author Topic: You are not giving the Heat enough credit  (Read 2297 times)

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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2020, 05:20:55 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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After 2 games v. Toronto, Boston looked like the better team - which I felt throughout the series. To have lost that series would have been painful. 

But...   Miami looks like the better team in this series. Not just because they are up 2-0.  But there has been a present expectation at every point during the first 2 games that Miami will answer.  The only point at which I had a moment of hope was yesterday when up 17 in the 2nd.  Kemba missed an open 3 from the corner that would  have put C’s up 20.  Instead, Miami brought it to 13 at the half.

They seem to have too many weapons.   I’m not expecting C’s to win Game 3, but of course still hoping.

I think this is a bit of sad commentary on Ainge's drafting ability, IMO.

No, he's not a terrible drafter; yes, he's made some great draft picks, especially Tatum and Brown and Smart.

But he's had a lot of draft picks in the last few seasons, a lot of chances to hit on a sleeper shooter, and hasn't. Edwards was supposed to be that guy, but he's clearly not (at least at this point). Neither is waters.

Meanwhile, the Heat got Herro, and Duncan Robinson has panned out really well too, and even Crowder has come alive in Miami as a 3pt shooter.

I mean, Ainge could still totally be playing the long game, and maybe viewed this season as a true "bridge year" and consider making the East finals pure gravy. But for us fans who are seeing this core group make the East finals for the third time in four years, and go down 0-2 with some super sloppy play, it's very disappointing. Maybe that's the downside of a young team being "ahead of schedule," but that doesn't really take the sting out of it for many of us.

I've used this illustration before, so forgive me if you've heard it, but in each of the first two games, Boston has made a thousand mistakes, yet would've won each of those games if they'd made only 998 mistakes. Why couldn't they have made just a couple of mistakes fewer each game?

In other words, even with all of their mistakes, they almost won; how hard is it to tighten things up just a little bit in order to secure a win? Why haven't they been able to do that? That's what's so frustrating to me.
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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2020, 05:41:15 PM »

Offline apc

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I do give them credit but MAN they made some tough shot in crunch time that were very lucky to go in.

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2020, 04:25:29 AM »

Online ozgod

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We definitely have to give the Heat a lot of credit. They're not as talented but they look to be mentally stronger. It probably helps to have tough veterans like Buckets, Crowder, Iguodala and Dragic along with their young talent like Herro, Robinson and Adebayo. What we would have called "a fine blend of youth and experience". I'm not surprised they beat Milwaukee 4-1, they've raised their game for the business end of the season.

We're being led by 22 and 23 year olds as our best players along with Smartacus who is hit or miss offensively. But I wouldn't count us out yet, these young kids have won their share of 7 game series. We were in winning positions both games but stopped playing when Miami applied pressure, which is a mental thing. We're in the ECF missing one of our best players and the 2 games have been decided by a total of 8 points. But from reading the comments in the game threads and just after the losses you'd have thought we were the worst team in the league.

I'm excited to see how it plays out, win or lose. Let's see if these guys have the balls to come back from adversity, and to dare be champions.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2020, 04:30:53 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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They're not as talented but they look to be mentally stronger. It probably helps to have tough veterans like Buckets, Crowder, Iguodala and Dragic along with their young talent like Herro, Robinson and Adebayo. What we would have called "a fine blend of youth and experience".

We're being led by 22 and 23 year olds as our best players along with Smartacus who is hit or miss offensively. But I wouldn't count us out yet, these young kids have won their share of 7 game series. We were in winning positions both games but stopped playing when Miami applied pressure, which is a mental thing. We're in the ECF missing one of our best players and the 2 games have been decided by a total of 8 points. But from reading the comments in the game threads and just after the losses you'd have thought we were the worst team in the league.

I'm excited to see how it plays out, win or lose. Let's see if these guys have the balls to come back from adversity, and to dare be champions.

The point differential doesn't speak to the sheer awfulness of how Boston has played at the most critical times in the first two games. Bad iso, bad turnovers, missed open looks.

Miami's making every key play at every key moment, and Heat players who have never been this far, like Herro, are unfazed, while some young Boston players who HAVE been this far are not measuring up in the crucial moments.

So, yeah, I give Miami credit; they've been mostly great. But at the same time, Boston has repeatedly shot itself in the foot.
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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2020, 05:03:36 AM »

Online ozgod

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They're not as talented but they look to be mentally stronger. It probably helps to have tough veterans like Buckets, Crowder, Iguodala and Dragic along with their young talent like Herro, Robinson and Adebayo. What we would have called "a fine blend of youth and experience".

We're being led by 22 and 23 year olds as our best players along with Smartacus who is hit or miss offensively. But I wouldn't count us out yet, these young kids have won their share of 7 game series. We were in winning positions both games but stopped playing when Miami applied pressure, which is a mental thing. We're in the ECF missing one of our best players and the 2 games have been decided by a total of 8 points. But from reading the comments in the game threads and just after the losses you'd have thought we were the worst team in the league.

I'm excited to see how it plays out, win or lose. Let's see if these guys have the balls to come back from adversity, and to dare be champions.

The point differential doesn't speak to the sheer awfulness of how Boston has played at the most critical times in the first two games. Bad iso, bad turnovers, missed open looks.

Miami's making every key play at every key moment, and Heat players who have never been this far, like Herro, are unfazed, while some young Boston players who HAVE been this far are not measuring up in the crucial moments.

So, yeah, I give Miami credit; they've been mostly great. But at the same time, Boston has repeatedly shot itself in the foot.


Agree, which is why leads of 17+ and 14+ were overhauled. But despite how awful they were, it's only 8 points that decided the 2 games. It's not a gulf of difference. It's not like we were outplayed for large parts of the game.

Also with Herro, he was 4-12 overall and 1-8 from 3 for 12 points. He's contributed in other ways, but it's more the threat of him that has affected the Celtics in defending the PnR with him and Robinson on the weak side making it hard for that defender to help with Adebayo rolling to the basket. They can't leave him alone even if he is shooting 12.5% from 3.

I wonder if having their families here now in time for the finals has affected the Celtics' focus. Miami chose not to have their families come to maintain that bunker mentality. But again if there is a lack of focus, it's due to failing to adapt to adjustments that the Heat made during the game, because we've controlled large parts of the game but just haven't been able to adjust when Miami made a change. Which to me is a mental thing. Maybe that's why Brad cancelled practice - maybe he wants them to clear their heads.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2020, 09:16:40 AM »

Offline cman88

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generally in the NBA you look at which team has more talent and that is the one you pick. Theres no question Jaylen brown/tatum/Kemba are more talented scorers than guys on the heat.

But I think their youth and kembas inexperience in this arena shows in the last few minutes of the game and the 4th quarter which has been their achilles heel. Also brad is being outcoached. Its amazing to me that an NBA team cannot figure out a zone defense.

I mean not to mention everything is going right for the Heat. They are playing such above their level of talent its unreal. You have guys like Olynk hitting step back 3's, and Crowder looking unstoppable hitting everything he throws up. These guys never played that way in boston...

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2020, 09:25:22 AM »

Offline Stig

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The thing is, there is no hard rule of how to evaluate talent, the current valuation of talent is based on previous performance. If the Heat beat us badly, they will be the more talented team, people will start value Butler > Tatum, Bam > Kemba, Dragic > Brown, etc.

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2020, 09:43:23 AM »

Offline gouki88

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The thing is, there is no hard rule of how to evaluate talent, the current valuation of talent is based on previous performance. If the Heat beat us badly, they will be the more talented team, people will start value Butler > Tatum, Bam > Kemba, Dragic > Brown, etc.
That's not how it works. Is anyone out there saying Jokic > Kawhi, or Murray > PG13? No

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2020, 09:50:53 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Fans hardly ever give the other team any credit at all.  It’s either we won because we’re better or we lost because we suck.  It’s we’re losing leads, not they’re resilient and making comebacks (which they did against Mil too).

What else is new.

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2020, 09:53:33 AM »

Offline Stig

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Yes there are people thinking Murray > PG13 right now. It's hard to make the same argument about Kawhi because he has so much past credits, not the same for anyone in this Celtics team.

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2020, 11:05:33 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The Heat are winning these games more than we’re losing it. This, I agree with.

But I’d REALLY like the narrative to stop of the whole “but we’re being led by such young players.” First off, all our top young players have been to the ECF before (where they lost). Secondly, the Heat are fielding their own crop of young players as well, most with no playoff experience.

There are no excuses. We’re being outplayed in crucial moments, and we’re not matching their force (to use a CBS word) or intensity.

I would’ve thought this series would’ve been easier than the Raps given that we’re (still) a more talented team than our opponent and I thought Nurse was the toughest coach we’d face. I was wrong.
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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2020, 07:51:49 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Yes there are people thinking Murray > PG13 right now. It's hard to make the same argument about Kawhi because he has so much past credits, not the same for anyone in this Celtics team.
Nobody with any credibility is making that argument. A guard who is a 18/4/4 guy and hasn't improved for 2 years has gotten hot in the playoffs. He still doesn't play defence. Paul George was an MVP candidate last year, is a 6x All-Star and 5x All-NBA alongside 4x All-Defensive teams. Anyone thinking Murray > PG13 is deluded

Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2020, 12:27:55 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Heat playing trick/sneaky basketèball. Also have several tough players

Spoelstra is throwing different combinations and plays

1.  Celtics guarding zone and perimeter pretty tightly.  Instead Heat go for the endless alleys to Bam.  Brad stevens does nothing to fix this.

2. Statting the 3rd. Walker is guarded closer at the halfcourt. 1.5 man on him. By the time the offense is set. There is less than 14 sec. Team panicking to make a play

Celts do zero to counter this. So spol keeps abusing it. Why not.  Stevens is too slow to react

And also he has to bring back Theis late in the game when Grant was playing much better

Its a fixed system. Vs Spoelstra who is adapting on the fly

Exactly - you nailed it.

Why is Rob Williams not playing ? He would be the best answer we have defensively for Bam.

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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2020, 12:37:05 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Heat playing trick/sneaky basketèball. Also have several tough players

Spoelstra is throwing different combinations and plays

1.  Celtics guarding zone and perimeter pretty tightly.  Instead Heat go for the endless alleys to Bam.  Brad stevens does nothing to fix this.

2. Statting the 3rd. Walker is guarded closer at the halfcourt. 1.5 man on him. By the time the offense is set. There is less than 14 sec. Team panicking to make a play

Celts do zero to counter this. So spol keeps abusing it. Why not.  Stevens is too slow to react

And also he has to bring back Theis late in the game when Grant was playing much better

Its a fixed system. Vs Spoelstra who is adapting on the fly

Exactly - you nailed it.

Why is Rob Williams not playing ? He would be the best answer we have defensively for Bam.
Because the Heat are one of the best cutting teams in the NBA and Williams just doesn’t have the defensive iq to stay out there long.

Without Hayward it’s difficult for Brad to make adjustments because this team is so shallow.

I think he’s done a decent job deciding when to use each of his severely flawed big men from series to series, but it’s hard because really none of them are playoff rotation level bigs outside of Theis.
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Re: You are not giving the Heat enough credit
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2020, 12:56:36 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Heat playing trick/sneaky basketèball. Also have several tough players

Spoelstra is throwing different combinations and plays

1.  Celtics guarding zone and perimeter pretty tightly.  Instead Heat go for the endless alleys to Bam.  Brad stevens does nothing to fix this.

2. Statting the 3rd. Walker is guarded closer at the halfcourt. 1.5 man on him. By the time the offense is set. There is less than 14 sec. Team panicking to make a play

Celts do zero to counter this. So spol keeps abusing it. Why not.  Stevens is too slow to react

And also he has to bring back Theis late in the game when Grant was playing much better

Its a fixed system. Vs Spoelstra who is adapting on the fly

Exactly - you nailed it.

Why is Rob Williams not playing ? He would be the best answer we have defensively for Bam.
Because the Heat are one of the best cutting teams in the NBA and Williams just doesn’t have the defensive iq to stay out there long.

Without Hayward it’s difficult for Brad to make adjustments because this team is so shallow.

I think he’s done a decent job deciding when to use each of his severely flawed big men from series to series, but it’s hard because really none of them are playoff rotation level bigs outside of Theis.
Yeah, Williams is still very unaware as a team defender. His crazy athleticism allows him to get away with it against weak teams, but in the ECF and against Spoelstra he'd get exposed