Author Topic: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat  (Read 1628 times)

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Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 09:05:48 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I dont blame Tatum for the loss as he overall played great.  We really need Walker to play better, and Brown to play a bit better himself than he did yesterday.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 09:20:23 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I love Tatum but last night was not his finest game.   The "hero " ball certainly didn't work out and it looked like he fell into some tunnel vision with his offensive decision-making late in the game.


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Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 09:26:44 AM »

Offline KrazyLegs

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I think the OP actually omitted a couple of Tatum's misses, too. Apparently, he was 0-7 in the last 7 minutes of the game.

That being said, a couple of those weren't really his fault (like the desperation heave in OT).

Overall, though, he becomes over-reliant on his fallaway and step-back jumpers. Gotta have a sense for time, context and situation. Sometimes you need to drive it to the hole.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 09:40:48 AM »

Offline nyceltsfan

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I love Tatum but last night was not his finest game.   The "hero " ball certainly didn't work out and it looked like he fell into some tunnel vision with his offensive decision-making late in the game.

It's hard for me to be upset with Tatum for last night's game.  The 3 pointer at the end of regulation was really the only thing I can fault him for in this group of "failures."  He should have been more aggressive taking the ball to the rim, which he learned in overtime.  It took an otherworldly play to stop him in OT and I think that was the right move by Tatum.  In most scenarios, that ball would have been dunked or he would have been fouled.

Tatum had to take all those shots and try to put the team on his back because Kemba once again did not show up and take control of the game.  Worse than that was that the Heat exposed him defensively.  We cannot rely on Smart to shoot the way he did yesterday, although it seems that he is much improved, and we wasted a golden opportunity to go up 1-0.

I think that Stevens has to take a large part of the blame for the loss.  He lost the 0.5 second heave last round and the double-overtime game and now the overtime game this round.  One area where I think it is obvious that he should improve is his use of challenges.  To use one in overtime on a 50-50 play is not smart, given that he lost a valuable timeout for the team.  Also, there were plenty of opportunities for him to use it in regulation, which given that the game went to overtime, which if used correctly, would have changed the outcome of this game.

I felt that the Celtics were the better team throughout the game, but I think we need to see more from Jaylen and Kemba in order to solidify the outcome.  Also, getting Hayward back should help, but I don't really know what to expect from him.  I am not confident that we will win this series, but I am hopeful that we can get a better result on Thursday.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 11:06:40 AM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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Dude is probably the best player in this series and will probably be All-NBA this year and he's 22.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 12:39:58 PM »

Online LilRip

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I attribute this loss on CBS, mostly. I wasnt able to watch live but watching the replay, after the 1st quarter, I could tell:

1. Cs are the more talented team (at least in terms of the best players)
2. But the Heat looked more prepared out there. They had a game plan and they stuck to it. Meanwhile, we keep having defensive breakdowns that stop our momentum or start their runs.

We should win this series. Were a more offensively talented team and were pretty much right there defensively too. But Brad Stevens needs to figure out how to get Kemba going, how to attack the Kemba blitz (which we already saw the Raps so pretty well), and how to attack the zone (which we also saw from the Raps).

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Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 01:39:25 PM »

Offline nyceltsfan

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I attribute this loss on CBS, mostly. I wasnt able to watch live but watching the replay, after the 1st quarter, I could tell:

1. Cs are the more talented team (at least in terms of the best players)
2. But the Heat looked more prepared out there. They had a game plan and they stuck to it. Meanwhile, we keep having defensive breakdowns that stop our momentum or start their runs.

We should win this series. Were a more offensively talented team and were pretty much right there defensively too. But Brad Stevens needs to figure out how to get Kemba going, how to attack the Kemba blitz (which we already saw the Raps so pretty well), and how to attack the zone (which we also saw from the Raps).
It's interesting - I feel we are the better team on both ends of the court, but I feel like during the course of a game, and certainly a series, there are breaks that can go either way (calls, the ball finding the right guy, a tough make or miss, etc.) and I feel that throughout the Raptors series and this first game, all of those breaks went unilaterally against the Celtics.  I cannot remember the last replay by the refs (challenge or otherwise) that the Celtics won.  The block by Bam was a one in a million play, which may or may not have been goaltending (based on what I am reading in other threads).  The shot by OG was one in a million.  The double overtime game had so many plays that went against Boston.  Am I just seeing this through green tinted glasses, or is there something to what I am saying?

Is it possible for the pendulum to swing in the other direction and if it does, do the Celtics dominate?  After all, with everything working against them, they are literally in every game, so far, with a chance to win.  Does this come down to coaching or bad luck or both?

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 08:23:48 PM »

Online ozgod

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Perk said something during Celtics PostGame on NBC about that Tatum shot at the end of regulation...Perk said if we cheer for Tatum when he was taking and making those shots earlier in the game then we have to live with that at the end of the game because he had been making them. Sure with hindsight we probably should have worked on a better shot than a contested 3 after dribbling down the clock. That was my initial reaction on the game thread too. But he's made those in the past many times. Can't blame him for trying to put the team on his shoulders. Next time he will be better for the experience - maybe he will try a drive and kick or try and drive to the rim like he did when he got stuffed by Adebayo (which I am ok with, it was a great play by Bam).


My only objection is that taking a 3p shot at that point does not make sense. Just drive to the basket. Go for the foul.

Even if the had made the shop i still think it was not the best call. I doubt it even makes "analytically" sense.

I am disappointed we couldn't put a seal on the game earlier and with Kemba's performances but not with Tatum

But that is basketball... You win some you lose some.


Well the next time he had to do it, he drove...so he learned. He's a quick learner. A 3 is analytically the highest value shot, over the course of a game, but probably not as a single shot with the game on the line. You probably have a 10% higher chance of making a midrange 2 or a drive. Even more if you involve other players with some off ball action to keep the defense guessing.

And naybe after being stuffed at the rim, he learns to try and bump the guy to draw a foul and maybe an and-one instead of a loud exclamation point dunk. Like I said, at least he's a quick learner  :angel:
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Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 09:44:02 PM »

Offline BMark

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Cs need more movement in their offense.  The other teams know the tendencies of the star players so Stevens needs to adjust.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 01:08:58 AM »

Online ScoobyDoo

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I probably didn't explain my point clearly enough in the OP. I had no major issues with Tatum's play. I did not like the 25 three pointer at the end of regulation. I would have put Tatum in the mid post and let him take a good shot closer to the basket, perhaps draw a foul or kick it out of the inevitable double team for a better shot.

My point was only this: If you've ever played a competitive sport, the series of failures he experienced in a short time down the stretch cannot sit well with him. I'm curious to see how he responds to that. That was the only point. Not we should trade him, not that he sucks or some of the other snarky replies.

Simply, how does a young Tatum respond to failing multiple times down the stretch when he is more often than not used to delivering in those moments. It's a growth moment for him. If he comes out in Game 2 in full on attack mode you know it's been grinding on him...and that's the reaction I want to see.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 01:23:26 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I probably didn't explain my point clearly enough in the OP. I had no major issues with Tatum's play. I did not like the 25 three pointer at the end of regulation. I would have put Tatum in the mid post and let him take a good shot closer to the basket, perhaps draw a foul or kick it out of the inevitable double team for a better shot.

My point was only this: If you've ever played a competitive sport, the series of failures he experienced in a short time down the stretch cannot sit well with him. I'm curious to see how he responds to that. That was the only point. Not we should trade him, not that he sucks or some of the other snarky replies.

Simply, how does a young Tatum respond to failing multiple times down the stretch when he is more often than not used to delivering in those moments. It's a growth moment for him. If he comes out in Game 2 in full on attack mode you know it's been grinding on him...and that's the reaction I want to see.
The reaction I want to see is him scaling down the isolation possessions, not being even more aggressive with his ball pounding. There's a thing called moving the ball lol.
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SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
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SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
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Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 01:17:18 PM »

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From: Somebody

"The reaction I want to see is him scaling down the isolation possessions, not being even more aggressive with his ball pounding. There's a thing called moving the ball lol."

Couldn't agree more. Can't stand when the team goes int the ball pounding, run the clock down and take a bad shot at the end of it. It'most like they go it's Kemba's turn, now Tatum, etc. Stevens mentioned we were way too stagnant offensively down the stretch. More ball movement is a must against a good defense.
   

   

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 01:44:37 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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From: Somebody

"The reaction I want to see is him scaling down the isolation possessions, not being even more aggressive with his ball pounding. There's a thing called moving the ball lol."

Couldn't agree more. Can't stand when the team goes int the ball pounding, run the clock down and take a bad shot at the end of it. It'most like they go it's Kemba's turn, now Tatum, etc. Stevens mentioned we were way too stagnant offensively down the stretch. More ball movement is a must against a good defense.
 

I genuinely agree with this and think ball movement offenses tend to lead to the best results.

Tatum, however, is quickly becoming one of the best iso scorers in the NBA. I don't mind it if they hunt some switches, get good matchups with Tatum (or Brown), and then go to work as part of their regular diet.

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 01:54:37 PM »

Offline Somebody

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From: Somebody

"The reaction I want to see is him scaling down the isolation possessions, not being even more aggressive with his ball pounding. There's a thing called moving the ball lol."

Couldn't agree more. Can't stand when the team goes int the ball pounding, run the clock down and take a bad shot at the end of it. It'most like they go it's Kemba's turn, now Tatum, etc. Stevens mentioned we were way too stagnant offensively down the stretch. More ball movement is a must against a good defense.
 

I genuinely agree with this and think ball movement offenses tend to lead to the best results.

Tatum, however, is quickly becoming one of the best iso scorers in the NBA. I don't mind it if they hunt some switches, get good matchups with Tatum (or Brown), and then go to work as part of their regular diet.
Nobody's saying that they don't want isolation basketball as part of the offence, but there's a difference between a healthy mix of ball movement/self-creation and the 2016 Cavs.
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: Tatum's "foursome" in Game 1 against the Heat
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 07:18:57 PM »

Online LilRip

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I attribute this loss on CBS, mostly. I wasnt able to watch live but watching the replay, after the 1st quarter, I could tell:

1. Cs are the more talented team (at least in terms of the best players)
2. But the Heat looked more prepared out there. They had a game plan and they stuck to it. Meanwhile, we keep having defensive breakdowns that stop our momentum or start their runs.

We should win this series. Were a more offensively talented team and were pretty much right there defensively too. But Brad Stevens needs to figure out how to get Kemba going, how to attack the Kemba blitz (which we already saw the Raps so pretty well), and how to attack the zone (which we also saw from the Raps).
It's interesting - I feel we are the better team on both ends of the court, but I feel like during the course of a game, and certainly a series, there are breaks that can go either way (calls, the ball finding the right guy, a tough make or miss, etc.) and I feel that throughout the Raptors series and this first game, all of those breaks went unilaterally against the Celtics.  I cannot remember the last replay by the refs (challenge or otherwise) that the Celtics won.  The block by Bam was a one in a million play, which may or may not have been goaltending (based on what I am reading in other threads).  The shot by OG was one in a million.  The double overtime game had so many plays that went against Boston.  Am I just seeing this through green tinted glasses, or is there something to what I am saying?

Is it possible for the pendulum to swing in the other direction and if it does, do the Celtics dominate?  After all, with everything working against them, they are literally in every game, so far, with a chance to win.  Does this come down to coaching or bad luck or both?

Id say its green tinted glasses. CBS being really bad at challenges aside, lets not take some things for granted as well. Like for example, Smart hitting some ridiculous shots in game 2. Siakams wide open layup circling out of the hoop. Im sure there are some lucky bounces (like loose balls) going our way too but we just assume they shouldve gone our way.

Granted, OG and Bams plays were amazing but weve caught a few breaks too :)

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