Montrezl Harrell

[Csfan1984]

You can be a minority and be racist. So racist comments can come from any demographic.

 Also I was once taught everyone is biased and holds stereotypes based on their experiences so it's hard for anyone to be truly unbiased and free of prejudice.

He was wrong and apologized but he should be on the probation list for me.

[GreenFaith1819]

My Friend -

Until you actually WALK in "MY" shoes as a Black Man in this country I'd be hesitant to call the labels on the courageous NBA player's jersey's "Hypocritical".

By the same token, GF, you’ve never walked in the shoes of OhioGreen. Your status as a black man is respected, but it doesn’t mean that you get to define OhioGreen’s thoughts regarding what he sees as hypocritical, no more than his race gives his point any more or less value than your own.

From your own point of view, you’re both right.  Blacks shouldn’t be discriminated against.  Whites shouldn’t be held responsible for the sins of their ancestors.  We need understanding, empathy and humility toward all, not just those of a certain color or creed.

I disagree with you here, Roy -

You see - I "HAVE" walked in YOURS....OHIO GREEN's (presuming he's Caucasian)...shoes.

I've lived in America MY WHOLE LIFE....all 51 years....experienced Racism and ignorance DESPITE my attempts to FIT IT and better myself...join the Navy.

My uniform and HUGE BASE stickers on my new car could NOT prevent me from being pulled over by Police for NO REASON in Richmond Va in my early years in the Service....wasn't speeding....wasn't drinking...wasn't swerving or anything. Had insurance and ALL necessary paperwork needed to be legit.

It is things like this that remind me where my place is in this country....even though it was so many years ago.

While we STRIVE for a "Perfect Union" we are NOT there, yet.....have INDEED gotten WORSE, over the last 5 years or so with the BLATANT incidents.

George Floyd (and MANY others) are STARK reminders of this.

Here is yet ANOTHER perfect example (to ME at least) explaining the comment I bolded for you. I read Milestone Comics often and one of my favorite Superheroes is Augustus Freeman IV - Icon.

This particular passage here helps to explain to me the stark differences in this country. Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.














https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-superman-crossover-that-perfectly-explained-white-p-1785744977

This RICH comic book - Milestone's Icon series - from WAAY back in the early 90's - breaks down White Supremacy to ME at least.

The QUESTION at hand is not whether Whites should be held responsible for their ancestor's sins - the POINT is to be cognizant of unfairness and discrimination that EXISTS to this day because of Slavery.

[Atzar]

I don't get involved in these discussions too often on here, but this is my take as a white man. 

He called Doncic "white boy".  As far as racist comments go, this is pretty far down on the severity scale.  Yes, I do think Silver probably should have given some canned "we stand against racism in all its forms" response.  But I'm not getting my pitchfork out over this one.

Second, Harrell was a man about it.  He met Luka personally, explained himself, and apologized.  That, to me, ends it.  Don't get caught up in the social media cesspool.  Frankly, I think we all need to get away from that crap.  Just be responsible and handle your business.  If you're wrong, own up.  Harrell did. 

Last, Doncic didn't even care.  I'm not in the business of getting offended on behalf of people who aren't, themselves, offended.  Waste of my time. 

I don't buy Doc's "Montrezl didn't mean it to be racial" excuse, but at the same time, there are egregious offenses and then there's this.  It was handled in a mature way by the parties involved and that's the end of my interest in the ordeal. 

[Neurotic Guy]

You can be a minority and be racist. So racist comments can come from any demographic.

 Also I was once taught everyone is biased and holds stereotypes based on their experiences so it's hard for anyone to be truly unbiased and free of prejudice.

He was wrong and apologized but he should be on the probation list for me.

I agree that we all have bias and prejudice and disparate values. It is wrong no matter who it is to spew racial or ethnic epithets. To the OPs point, the reason I am more disturbed by white comments to blacks than black to white is simple - because of a massive historic power differential.   It’s wrong either way, but to me there is a difference in how I feel in response. 

Sort of like the difference I’d feel if the bully on the playground disparages a weaker kid than if the weaker kid tries to disparage the bully.  Black men and women are certainly not weaker individually but as a group have been victims of a far more economically and socially powerful majority.  A majority that has systematically suppressed and oppressed. So yes, while it is wrong either way, I respond differently.   Adam Silver should reprimand.

[wiley]

I don't get involved in these discussions too often on here, but this is my take as a white man. 

He called Doncic "white boy".  As far as racist comments go, this is pretty far down on the severity scale.  Yes, I do think Silver probably should have given some canned "we stand against racism in all its forms" response.  But I'm not getting my pitchfork out over this one.

Second, Harrell was a man about it.  He met Luka personally, explained himself, and apologized.  That, to me, ends it.  Don't get caught up in the social media cesspool.  Frankly, I think we all need to get away from that crap.  Just be responsible and handle your business.  If you're wrong, own up.  Harrell did. 

Last, Doncic didn't even care.  I'm not in the business of getting offended on behalf of people who aren't, themselves, offended.  Waste of my time. 

I don't buy Doc's "Montrezl didn't mean it to be racial" excuse, but at the same time, there are egregious offenses and then there's this.  It was handled in a mature way by the parties involved and that's the end of my interest in the ordeal.

Well summarized feelings...that I share.  After reading the thread while not knowing what Harrell said...I thought it was something much worse.

[Roy H.]

My Friend -

Until you actually WALK in "MY" shoes as a Black Man in this country I'd be hesitant to call the labels on the courageous NBA player's jersey's "Hypocritical".

By the same token, GF, you’ve never walked in the shoes of OhioGreen. Your status as a black man is respected, but it doesn’t mean that you get to define OhioGreen’s thoughts regarding what he sees as hypocritical, no more than his race gives his point any more or less value than your own.

From your own point of view, you’re both right.  Blacks shouldn’t be discriminated against.  Whites shouldn’t be held responsible for the sins of their ancestors.  We need understanding, empathy and humility toward all, not just those of a certain color or creed.

I disagree with you here, Roy -

You see - I "HAVE" walked in YOURS....OHIO GREEN's (presuming he's Caucasian)...shoes.

I've lived in America MY WHOLE LIFE....all 51 years....experienced Racism and ignorance DESPITE my attempts to FIT IT and better myself...join the Navy.

My uniform and HUGE BASE stickers on my new car could NOT prevent me from being pulled over by Police for NO REASON in Richmond Va in my early years in the Service....wasn't speeding....wasn't drinking...wasn't swerving or anything. Had insurance and ALL necessary paperwork needed to be legit.

It is things like this that remind me where my place is in this country....even though it was so many years ago.

While we STRIVE for a "Perfect Union" we are NOT there, yet.....have INDEED gotten WORSE, over the last 5 years or so with the BLATANT incidents.

George Floyd (and MANY others) are STARK reminders of this.

Here is yet ANOTHER perfect example (to ME at least) explaining the comment I bolded for you. I read Milestone Comics often and one of my favorite Superheroes is Augustus Freeman IV - Icon.

This particular passage here helps to explain to me the stark differences in this country. Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.














https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-superman-crossover-that-perfectly-explained-white-p-1785744977

This RICH comic book - Milestone's Icon series - from WAAY back in the early 90's - breaks down White Supremacy to ME at least.

The QUESTION at hand is not whether Whites should be held responsible for their ancestor's sins - the POINT is to be cognizant of unfairness and discrimination that EXISTS to this day because of Slavery.

Respectfully, GF, how can you say you’ve walked in the shoes of me or OG?  You’ve never met us, you don’t know our family history.  Beyond assumptions, I don’t know a thing at all about OhioGreen. 

Our “shoes” are what make us individuals.  Our culture, our experiences, our values, our traditions.  I’m not sure it’s ever fair to say that somebody completely can relate to another.  But, we can recognize that we’re all humans, and try to do the best we can to understand one another.

I do agree that blacks are still discriminated against.  That should be punished.  But, all discrimination and hate speech should be called out and rejected in a meaningful way.

[GreenFaith1819]

My Friend -

Until you actually WALK in "MY" shoes as a Black Man in this country I'd be hesitant to call the labels on the courageous NBA player's jersey's "Hypocritical".

By the same token, GF, you’ve never walked in the shoes of OhioGreen. Your status as a black man is respected, but it doesn’t mean that you get to define OhioGreen’s thoughts regarding what he sees as hypocritical, no more than his race gives his point any more or less value than your own.

From your own point of view, you’re both right.  Blacks shouldn’t be discriminated against.  Whites shouldn’t be held responsible for the sins of their ancestors.  We need understanding, empathy and humility toward all, not just those of a certain color or creed.

I disagree with you here, Roy -

You see - I "HAVE" walked in YOURS....OHIO GREEN's (presuming he's Caucasian)...shoes.

I've lived in America MY WHOLE LIFE....all 51 years....experienced Racism and ignorance DESPITE my attempts to FIT IT and better myself...join the Navy.

My uniform and HUGE BASE stickers on my new car could NOT prevent me from being pulled over by Police for NO REASON in Richmond Va in my early years in the Service....wasn't speeding....wasn't drinking...wasn't swerving or anything. Had insurance and ALL necessary paperwork needed to be legit.

It is things like this that remind me where my place is in this country....even though it was so many years ago.

While we STRIVE for a "Perfect Union" we are NOT there, yet.....have INDEED gotten WORSE, over the last 5 years or so with the BLATANT incidents.

George Floyd (and MANY others) are STARK reminders of this.

Here is yet ANOTHER perfect example (to ME at least) explaining the comment I bolded for you. I read Milestone Comics often and one of my favorite Superheroes is Augustus Freeman IV - Icon.

This particular passage here helps to explain to me the stark differences in this country. Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.














https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-superman-crossover-that-perfectly-explained-white-p-1785744977

This RICH comic book - Milestone's Icon series - from WAAY back in the early 90's - breaks down White Supremacy to ME at least.

The QUESTION at hand is not whether Whites should be held responsible for their ancestor's sins - the POINT is to be cognizant of unfairness and discrimination that EXISTS to this day because of Slavery.

Respectfully, GF, how can you say you’ve walked in the shoes of me or OG?  You’ve never met us, you don’t know our family history.  Beyond assumptions, I don’t know a thing at all about OhioGreen. 

Our “shoes” are what make us individuals.  Our culture, our experiences, our values, our traditions.  I’m not sure it’s ever fair to say that somebody completely can relate to another.  But, we can recognize that we’re all humans, and try to do the best we can to understand one another.

I do agree that blacks are still discriminated against.  That should be punished.  But, all discrimination and hate speech should be called out and rejected in a meaningful way.

Roy -

From a POWER STRUCTURE point of view in this country I "HAVE" lived (and walked) the SAME footsteps as you and Ohio Green.

I live in America just like you two do. Have my ENTIRE life.

But I've experienced different things than you two....different feelings...different situations. This is NOT based off of my occupations / jobs I've held BUT how I view America and my place in it.

[Ogaju]

My Friend -

Until you actually WALK in "MY" shoes as a Black Man in this country I'd be hesitant to call the labels on the courageous NBA player's jersey's "Hypocritical".

By the same token, GF, you’ve never walked in the shoes of OhioGreen. Your status as a black man is respected, but it doesn’t mean that you get to define OhioGreen’s thoughts regarding what he sees as hypocritical, no more than his race gives his point any more or less value than your own.

From your own point of view, you’re both right.  Blacks shouldn’t be discriminated against.  Whites shouldn’t be held responsible for the sins of their ancestors.  We need understanding, empathy and humility toward all, not just those of a certain color or creed.

I disagree with you here, Roy -

You see - I "HAVE" walked in YOURS....OHIO GREEN's (presuming he's Caucasian)...shoes.

I've lived in America MY WHOLE LIFE....all 51 years....experienced Racism and ignorance DESPITE my attempts to FIT IT and better myself...join the Navy.

My uniform and HUGE BASE stickers on my new car could NOT prevent me from being pulled over by Police for NO REASON in Richmond Va in my early years in the Service....wasn't speeding....wasn't drinking...wasn't swerving or anything. Had insurance and ALL necessary paperwork needed to be legit.

It is things like this that remind me where my place is in this country....even though it was so many years ago.

While we STRIVE for a "Perfect Union" we are NOT there, yet.....have INDEED gotten WORSE, over the last 5 years or so with the BLATANT incidents.

George Floyd (and MANY others) are STARK reminders of this.

Here is yet ANOTHER perfect example (to ME at least) explaining the comment I bolded for you. I read Milestone Comics often and one of my favorite Superheroes is Augustus Freeman IV - Icon.

This particular passage here helps to explain to me the stark differences in this country. Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.














https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-superman-crossover-that-perfectly-explained-white-p-1785744977

This RICH comic book - Milestone's Icon series - from WAAY back in the early 90's - breaks down White Supremacy to ME at least.

The QUESTION at hand is not whether Whites should be held responsible for their ancestor's sins - the POINT is to be cognizant of unfairness and discrimination that EXISTS to this day because of Slavery.

TP ...well put!!

[Ogaju]

I don't get involved in these discussions too often on here, but this is my take as a white man. 

He called Doncic "white boy".  As far as racist comments go, this is pretty far down on the severity scale.  Yes, I do think Silver probably should have given some canned "we stand against racism in all its forms" response.  But I'm not getting my pitchfork out over this one.

Second, Harrell was a man about it.  He met Luka personally, explained himself, and apologized.  That, to me, ends it.  Don't get caught up in the social media cesspool.  Frankly, I think we all need to get away from that crap.  Just be responsible and handle your business.  If you're wrong, own up.  Harrell did. 

Last, Doncic didn't even care.  I'm not in the business of getting offended on behalf of people who aren't, themselves, offended.  Waste of my time. 

I don't buy Doc's "Montrezl didn't mean it to be racial" excuse, but at the same time, there are egregious offenses and then there's this.  It was handled in a mature way by the parties involved and that's the end of my interest in the ordeal.

Finally, someone mentions what Harrell actually did. Intention is always the key for me in these things. Cominig from Europe Doncic probably did not even take being called 'white boy' an insult, but that should not be the standard. The standard should be what Harrell meant by it, and Harrell should know better. And yes, he should be disciplined by the NBA otherwise where is the moral authority of the NBA. It is okay to apologize, in fact it is imperative that he apologize, but he should still get disciplined.

[Ogaju]

Okay now I see what he said he used the b word the a word plus white boy. That is a fine and one game suspension in my book.

[trickybilly]

There are enough eastern Europeans in the league now that guys should know how an actually racist comment "dirty Slav" or something like that, should be punished more seriously.

B***h as* f***** white boy? Please.

This "well WhItE is OpPosiTe bLack so not fair noT FaiR" is just so myopic and self serving.

[OhioGreen]

GreenFaith: I'm 70, grew up in Connecticut.  Went to public schools.  Played sports.  Had many black friends.  In my youth I wasn't even really aware of racism.  Kids were kids.  You liked em or didn't, but not based on race.  Maybe that was just me.  Served in the military for four years and two of my dearest friends in the service were black.  Again, never gave their color a thought.  They were "my friends", and I would have done anything for them.  Now, you and I are both Celtic fans.  Both have "Green" in our screen names!  Have both served in the military.  I try to see things in all of us that bring us together, not differentiate us.
I hope this country starts coming together, but right now it doesn't look promising.  Posters have said Luka apparently has moved on, and put it behind him.  Maybe that would be a good thing for many in this country right now!
GreenFaith, I wish you only good things, safety and good health!  Go "Green"!

[Androslav]

Celtic Friends, especially American, I feel for your troubles with racism issues and I pray for you to have the smarts, courage, and resilience to stay on the right path resolving them. I'd like to share my thoughts with you.

I always despised racism. I literally have a physical reaction toward it. I get a rush of adrenaline and start sweating immensely, my heart starts pounding heavily as if I am in some kind of immediate danger. And, I feel like I could move a mountain when I sense it. As racism is something unacceptable to me and the society I am trying to create and be a part of.

In my homeland of Croatia, racism is mostly manifested against minorities of Roma (more pronounced) and Serb (more during the war of Croatian independence, post-war it diminishes with time) population. It is not as evident and existent towards people of a different color. We actually don't have many here and they certainly aren't in the position of power here to make it more plausible. When folks see them on the street, it's something exotic, rather than anything negative.

Like I said, ever since I was a little 5-6 y/o kid and my father, read the "Uncle Tom's Cabin" to me, I felt such injustice that it struck to me for a lifetime. I remember it made my blood boil upon listening to it in tears ("WHY dad? Why did he had to beat him with the whip?"), and that feeling hasn't faded since. It went far as fighting (words) with some of the members of my family over these issues. I don't care, If you are a racist, I don't consider you as my family. Simple as that. It is like pedophilia or rape.
It is completely unacceptable.

Someone once said that there is a little Hitler in all of us. And I agreed with that analogy. So I adapted and expanded it.
We can't destroy Hitler in our head, we have to manage and live with him. We have to outsmart him. But how do I outsmart and outplay an authoritarian merciless leader (single-mindedness) in my brain? Hmm, I though. I'll do it with democracy. A pluralism of thought and with my vast knowledge, that I have carefully collected through the years. In the democratic regime in my head, one authoritarian can't cause significant harm. If he rises a bit, he will get outvoted and pushed to the margins. My knowledge will disprove his weak thories. While on the pulpit, he will be faced with many serious and tough questions, from every angle that I have representative in; togetherness, inclusiveness, equality, care, love, history, common sense, biology, spirituality, immateriality... and he won't be able to answer those question adequately. And he will eventually loses his credibility. That is how I manage him. I outvote him every time. But... one day I might not. And the dictator could rise again. And one by one, all that I love and everything that is beautiful in my life could be destroyed. What a horrible scenario of my life that would be. Scary.
That's why the fight is never over. And I will always be prepared to fight with him.

Lets stay strong and fight for things that are worth fighting for.
Racism is one of those things.

[GreenFaith1819]

GreenFaith: I'm 70, grew up in Connecticut.  Went to public schools.  Played sports.  Had many black friends.  In my youth I wasn't even really aware of racism.  Kids were kids.  You liked em or didn't, but not based on race.  Maybe that was just me.  Served in the military for four years and two of my dearest friends in the service were black.  Again, never gave their color a thought.  They were "my friends", and I would have done anything for them.  Now, you and I are both Celtic fans.  Both have "Green" in our screen names!  Have both served in the military.  I try to see things in all of us that bring us together, not differentiate us.
I hope this country starts coming together, but right now it doesn't look promising.  Posters have said Luka apparently has moved on, and put it behind him.  Maybe that would be a good thing for many in this country right now!
GreenFaith, I wish you only good things, safety and good health!  Go "Green"!

Ohio - thanks for the kind response, my friend - and thank YOU for your service as well.

As I pore over your childhood it seems AWFULLY close to mines. While I grew up in predominantly Black communities until my early teens the FEW White / Caucasian friends I had were just like YOU - "Friends" - for the most part.

But from MY early youth I do remember Mom and my Uncle talking about Racial issues - even before my Teen years. They spoke VERY ill of Ronald Reagan.....my uncle called him - among other things - "Ronald The Raygun".

It wasn't a nickname he used with endearment.

I remember as a youth going to the Richmond Fair. This was in my early teen years. My mom had even moved from our predominantly Black neighborhood into a more diverse - and White - one. One of the few Black friends I had in our immediate neighborhood went with me to the Fair.

I loved going to the Fair. Had a GREAT time when I went. But there was ONE time in particular that stood out to me and STILL sticks with me even now.

The Fair is a place to have fun. You see kids running and chasing each other from time to time. I chose to run, too - play the silly game that a LOT of kids were having there at the Fair. To this day I wonder if the ONLY reason I was stopped by a Police Officer there was because I was tall for my age AND Black but I was stunned and angry as I saw the White youth (my SAME age) STILL running and having fun.

Was this because most of them were short and the officers did not see them? Could be. But from MY perspective even then I had to wonder.

I "ALSO" recall from my late teens an exchange I had with another Black friend I had in our neighborhood. We BOTH loved Basketball and played it often at the elementary school a few minutes away. We both got on the subject of our favorite teams.

His was a fan of The Los Angeles Lakers.

Mines was (and still IS) The Boston Celtics.

He THEN asked me quite frankly - "Man how in the world CAN YOU LIKE BOSTON?" And he had quite the stunned look on his face.

I remember his LOOK even now to this day - even moreso than the REASONING as to why I chose BOS (and he chose LAL).

The reason for the look he gave me was more than just Larry and Magic.

I say all this, Ohio - for this reason - while we count Black Friends from our youth among our friends circle....even in the Military - we need to be cognizant that - while we laugh, joke, play together there is STILL a divide in this country AND a different set of experiences that are present.

From the Black perspective - we are taught to NOT talk about it much - especially as youth.....just fit in. But it IS there.

From Luka's perspective - as an Ethnic Slovenian - he has probably gotten more of an education in "AMERICA" about Race than he EVER did in Slovenia.

I have BEEN over seas many times in the Navy. Even had a GLORIOUS visit to Croatia (which is just south of Slovenia) and to be honest I detected ZERO Racism there - even though I could tell there were not many Blacks there (if at all).

People there were AWESOME....friendly....and it was genuine.

America does Racism WELL - that is sad but true, at least to me. I have had the LEAST experiences with Racism overseas - even though it is STILL there...but NOTHING like America.

Your Black Friends, Ohio - experienced Racism....not from YOU per se but it's happened. They probably never discussed it with you because you were a part of the solution for them and I'm sure they were thankful for that.

[KGs Knee]

Celtic Friends, especially American, I feel for your troubles with racism issues and I pray for you to have the smarts, courage, and resilience to stay on the right path resolving them. I'd like to share my thoughts with you.

I always despised racism. I literally have a physical reaction toward it. I get a rush of adrenaline and start sweating immensely, my heart starts pounding heavily as if I am in some kind of immediate danger. And, I feel like I could move a mountain when I sense it. As racism is something unacceptable to me and the society I am trying to create and be a part of.

In my homeland of Croatia, racism is mostly manifested against minorities of Roma (more pronounced) and Serb (more during the war of Croatian independence, post-war it diminishes with time) population. It is not as evident and existent towards people of a different color. We actually don't have many here and they certainly aren't in the position of power here to make it more plausible. When folks see them on the street, it's something exotic, rather than anything negative.

Like I said, ever since I was a little 5-6 y/o kid and my father, read the "Uncle Tom's Cabin" to me, I felt such injustice that it struck to me for a lifetime. I remember it made my blood boil upon listening to it in tears ("WHY dad? Why did he had to beat him with the whip?"), and that feeling hasn't faded since. It went far as fighting (words) with some of the members of my family over these issues. I don't care, If you are a racist, I don't consider you as my family. Simple as that. It is like pedophilia or rape.
It is completely unacceptable.

Someone once said that there is a little Hitler in all of us. And I agreed with that analogy. So I adapted and expanded it.
We can't destroy Hitler in our head, we have to manage and live with him. We have to outsmart him. But how do I outsmart and outplay an authoritarian merciless leader (single-mindedness) in my brain? Hmm, I though. I'll do it with democracy. A plurality of thought and with my vast knowledge, that I have carefully collected through the years. In the democratic regime in my head, one authoritarian can't cause significant harm. If he rises a bit, he will get outvoted and pushed to the margins. My knowledge will disprove his weak thories. While on the pulpit, he will be faced with many serious and tough questions, from every angle that I have representative in; togetherness, inclusiveness, equality, care, love, history, common sense, biology, spirituality, immateriality... and he won't be able to answer those question adequately. And he will eventually loses his credibility. That is how I manage him. I outvote him every time. But... one day I might not. And the dictator could rise again. And one by one, all that I love and everything that is beautiful in my life could be destroyed. What a horrible scenario of my life that would be. Scary.
That's why the fight is never over. And I will always be prepared to fight with him.

Lets stay strong and fight for things that are worth fighting for.
Racism is one of those things.

This is an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing.

I've worked with a number of Bosnian people in the past, and they had some interesting perspectives as well. For those that were older and actually part of the war you could tell there were a lot of underlying pyschological scars still there.

One question I have here, in regards to this in passage in particular. When you say 'Roma' do you mean 'Romani', as in the people often referred to a gypsies, originally native to parts of India? They have definitely been some of the more persecuted peoples of Europe.

In my homeland of Croatia, racism is mostly manifested against minorities of Roma (more pronounced)