Author Topic: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT  (Read 3168 times)

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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2020, 05:18:26 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Thanks for the mock draft! I'm here for all the draft discussion threads you can create!

I would be happy with Maxey at 17 (well I will be even happier if Memphis gets knocked out of the playoffs in the bubble and we pick at 13). With the way your board goes I would want Precious over Maxey. Precious has Faried's energy, but with more length, more shooting potential and better perimeter skill. I also think Precious can defend the perimeter in ways Faried didn't.

I'd be happy with any of Patrick Williams, Maxey, Precious, Lewis, Nesmith and Saddiq Bey.

Is Maledon a stash candidate? I think if they keep all 3 picks they will draft one or two stash guys.

I know I have heard Maledon mentioned as a stash candidate, I think Chad Ford mentioned it on his pod.

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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2020, 12:42:38 PM »

Offline boscel33

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.
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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2020, 01:21:18 PM »

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.

Timelord doesn't play at a 6'8'' height. With shoes on he plays at 6'10" and with his wingspan he plays much bigger.

When official measurements are done, neither Carey or Stewart will prove to be taller than Williams by height, and even if they are, they won't be by standing reach or standing vertical, which is how basketball is played.

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2020, 03:44:55 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.

Timelord doesn't play at a 6'8'' height. With shoes on he plays at 6'10" and with his wingspan he plays much bigger.

When official measurements are done, neither Carey or Stewart will prove to be taller than Williams by height, and even if they are, they won't be by standing reach or standing vertical, which is how basketball is played.

Its tough because R Williams and D Theis do not have pre-draft measurements available. Both are listed at 6'8 240. Ive seen Williams WS at 7'6. Its a total guess but I would assume Theis is at least around a 7'2 WS

Kanter (predraft) 6'9.75" w/o shoes, 259lbs 7'1.5" WS and 9'1.5" standing reach

Four bigs often discussed as possible Celtics picks

P Achiuwa (2019 hoop summit) 6'9 in shoes, 223lbs 7'2.25" WS and 9'0" standing reach

I Stewart (2018 U17) 6'8 w/o shoes, 242lbs 7'4 WS and 9'0.5" standing reach

V Carey Jr (2018 U17) 6'9 w/0 shoes 277lbs 7'1" WS and 9'0.5" standing reach

Z Nanji (2018 U17) 6'10 w/o shoes 228lbs 7'1 WS and 8'11" standing reach



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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2020, 11:18:41 AM »

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 09:20:52 PM by Tr1boy »

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2020, 11:59:27 PM »

Offline wiley

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praying for my miracle pick at 17:  Patrick Williams.

next choice at 17:  Achiuwa.  Give him time to learn.

tolerable at 17:  Hampton, Lewis, Maxey

IF:   a guard at 17, then bigs at both 26 and 30:  Stewart at 26 and Tillman at 30.

IF:   P. Williams or Achiuwa at 17, then Stewart/Tillman at 26 and Bolmaro at 30.
(or Bolmaro at 26 and Stewart/Tillman or another big at 30.)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:05:20 AM by wiley »

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2020, 07:47:19 AM »

Offline footey

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praying for my miracle pick at 17:  Patrick Williams.

next choice at 17:  Achiuwa.  Give him time to learn.

tolerable at 17:  Hampton, Lewis, Maxey

IF:   a guard at 17, then bigs at both 26 and 30:  Stewart at 26 and Tillman at 30.

IF:   P. Williams or Achiuwa at 17, then Stewart/Tillman at 26 and Bolmaro at 30.
(or Bolmaro at 26 and Stewart/Tillman or another big at 30.)

Lewis at 17 not "tolerable." He'd be a steal there. He is climbing boards. Some have him as top 10.  Given ongoing knee concerns with Kemba, we have to really look hard at finding a PG who has starter potential in a couple of years' time. To me, Kira does, more than anyone who is available in our draft range.

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2020, 10:01:09 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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praying for my miracle pick at 17:  Patrick Williams.

next choice at 17:  Achiuwa.  Give him time to learn.

tolerable at 17:  Hampton, Lewis, Maxey

IF:   a guard at 17, then bigs at both 26 and 30:  Stewart at 26 and Tillman at 30.

IF:   P. Williams or Achiuwa at 17, then Stewart/Tillman at 26 and Bolmaro at 30.
(or Bolmaro at 26 and Stewart/Tillman or another big at 30.)

Lewis at 17 not "tolerable." He'd be a steal there. He is climbing boards. Some have him as top 10.  Given ongoing knee concerns with Kemba, we have to really look hard at finding a PG who has starter potential in a couple of years' time. To me, Kira does, more than anyone who is available in our draft range.

One worry I have with Lewis is his lack or physicality and finishing at the rim.

To compare per https://www.barttorvik.com/

Lewis JR 117-203 shots at the rim 57%, 6 dunks in 31 games

Maxey 71-109 shots at the rim 65%, 7 dunks in 31 games

Terry 166-221 shots at the rim 75%, 4 dunks in 31 games


Maxey has the advantage of a much stronger frame over Lewis and Terry

Lewis is list at 6'3 165lbs with a 6'5" WS

Terry is listed at a similar 6'2 160 with no reported WS

Other elite guards with similar slight frames

Jae Morant

6'3 175lbs 6'7WS
160-264 shots at the rim 60%, 28 dunks in 31 games

De'Aaron Fox

6'3 170lbs 6'6 WS
131-203  shots at the rim 64%, 20 dunks in 36 games


While I think Lewis Jr will be a solid NBA player I worry that his ceiling is as a backup and that really lowers his positional value.


 
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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2020, 11:14:09 AM »

Offline footey

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praying for my miracle pick at 17:  Patrick Williams.

next choice at 17:  Achiuwa.  Give him time to learn.

tolerable at 17:  Hampton, Lewis, Maxey

IF:   a guard at 17, then bigs at both 26 and 30:  Stewart at 26 and Tillman at 30.

IF:   P. Williams or Achiuwa at 17, then Stewart/Tillman at 26 and Bolmaro at 30.
(or Bolmaro at 26 and Stewart/Tillman or another big at 30.)

Lewis at 17 not "tolerable." He'd be a steal there. He is climbing boards. Some have him as top 10.  Given ongoing knee concerns with Kemba, we have to really look hard at finding a PG who has starter potential in a couple of years' time. To me, Kira does, more than anyone who is available in our draft range.

One worry I have with Lewis is his lack or physicality and finishing at the rim.

To compare per https://www.barttorvik.com/

Lewis JR 117-203 shots at the rim 57%, 6 dunks in 31 games

Maxey 71-109 shots at the rim 65%, 7 dunks in 31 games

Terry 166-221 shots at the rim 75%, 4 dunks in 31 games


Maxey has the advantage of a much stronger frame over Lewis and Terry

Lewis is list at 6'3 165lbs with a 6'5" WS

Terry is listed at a similar 6'2 160 with no reported WS

Other elite guards with similar slight frames

Jae Morant

6'3 175lbs 6'7WS
160-264 shots at the rim 60%, 28 dunks in 31 games

De'Aaron Fox

6'3 170lbs 6'6 WS
131-203  shots at the rim 64%, 20 dunks in 36 games


While I think Lewis Jr will be a solid NBA player I worry that his ceiling is as a backup and that really lowers his positional value.


 

Fair point, but don't ignore his elite speed/quickness, along with an ability to hit 3.  DeAron Fox is decent comparison.

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2020, 02:12:22 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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praying for my miracle pick at 17:  Patrick Williams.

next choice at 17:  Achiuwa.  Give him time to learn.

tolerable at 17:  Hampton, Lewis, Maxey

IF:   a guard at 17, then bigs at both 26 and 30:  Stewart at 26 and Tillman at 30.

IF:   P. Williams or Achiuwa at 17, then Stewart/Tillman at 26 and Bolmaro at 30.
(or Bolmaro at 26 and Stewart/Tillman or another big at 30.)

Lewis at 17 not "tolerable." He'd be a steal there. He is climbing boards. Some have him as top 10.  Given ongoing knee concerns with Kemba, we have to really look hard at finding a PG who has starter potential in a couple of years' time. To me, Kira does, more than anyone who is available in our draft range.

One worry I have with Lewis is his lack or physicality and finishing at the rim.

To compare per https://www.barttorvik.com/

Lewis JR 117-203 shots at the rim 57%, 6 dunks in 31 games

Maxey 71-109 shots at the rim 65%, 7 dunks in 31 games

Terry 166-221 shots at the rim 75%, 4 dunks in 31 games


Maxey has the advantage of a much stronger frame over Lewis and Terry

Lewis is list at 6'3 165lbs with a 6'5" WS

Terry is listed at a similar 6'2 160 with no reported WS

Other elite guards with similar slight frames

Jae Morant

6'3 175lbs 6'7WS
160-264 shots at the rim 60%, 28 dunks in 31 games

De'Aaron Fox

6'3 170lbs 6'6 WS
131-203  shots at the rim 64%, 20 dunks in 36 games


While I think Lewis Jr will be a solid NBA player I worry that his ceiling is as a backup and that really lowers his positional value.


 

Fair point, but don't ignore his elite speed/quickness, along with an ability to hit 3.  DeAron Fox is decent comparison.

One thought that I have had with Tyrell Terry in mind but this could also be applicable to Lewis jr.

If the post Kemba Cs shift Smart to the starting PG they could play Terry or (in my opinion to a lesser extent) Lewis could be a nice theoretical fit at 6th man. In that role both players are more easily hidden on D as they will play a lot of min against backups. Starting Smart and backing him up with a 25-30mpg dynamic scoring point would allow the 2nd unit to thrive and Tatum and Brown more shots.

I think this was DAs original plan when he traded for IT. Smarts injuries and ITs super nova like offensive explosion changed this plan.   
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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2020, 08:56:24 AM »

Offline boscel33

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.

With Kemba coming off three months rest, and his knee bothering him, I'm re-affirming the need for a PG this year to groom for his potential replacement. 

Of the PG's at 17; Kira Lewis, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion are the four within a few picks of 17, that I've read the most about.  Thoughts on those four? 
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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2020, 09:51:19 AM »

Offline footey

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.

With Kemba coming off three months rest, and his knee bothering him, I'm re-affirming the need for a PG this year to groom for his potential replacement. 

Of the PG's at 17; Kira Lewis, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion are the four within a few picks of 17, that I've read the most about.  Thoughts on those four?

yes, I think that Lewis is the best of the 4 in terms of becoming a future starting PG in the NBA. Has a PG feel, is elitely quick, and decent 3 point shot. Plus has 2 years college ball but same age as most freshmen (entered college at 17). He is who I hope we take with our first pick.

RJ Hampton very quick, but isn't really a PG, or even a swing 1/2 (although that is how he is being marketed), but more a 2 guard who struggles with his shot, which is not something to build on.  I was more a fan of his earlier this year until I listened to some podcast reports of analysts who studied his film.

Theo Maledon is a bit of an unknown. He was neck and neck with Killian Hayes a year ago, but Hayes improved dramatically, while Maledon (perhaps due to an injury) did not.  A Tony Parker protege, but doesn't have that kind of  burst.

Nico was a top 10 guy pre-season, but his shooting numbers at AZ were pretty mediocre, so he has slipped a lot.  Has good feel for the game, but lack of length (negative wing span) suggests he may really struggle on defensive end in the NBA. See him having career as a decent back up PG.

Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2020, 12:15:21 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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For the short term a potential (defensively versatile) starting PF and for the longterm a PG are our biggest 'needs'. As well as an elite shooter for the bench.

We don't need a center (unless we're talking about All Star potential), because with Theis and Timelord we're good enough at that position and a third string center is always easy to be found in free agency. And at the SG/SF position we're good for now and for the future with Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Langford, Smart(?) and Ojeleye.

We tend to agree, but since Timelord is 6'8", I decided to lop Carey and Stewart in the mix as they are a little bigger.  All three of those would be listed as PF/C players.  Also, my point on PG as a need is for backup and future starter to replace Kemba eventually, that's why I said it was a need.

With Kemba coming off three months rest, and his knee bothering him, I'm re-affirming the need for a PG this year to groom for his potential replacement. 

Of the PG's at 17; Kira Lewis, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion are the four within a few picks of 17, that I've read the most about.  Thoughts on those four?

I had a longer response but lost it.


Out of that list

Hampton, has the highest potential and I would trust the Cs staff to develop his weakness's (outside shot and defensive fundamentals). He is one of a small handful of players in this class who could reach a all-star or near all-star ceiling. Going back and watching him in a preseason game vs OKC its clear he has the tools to play in the NBA and just needs to be refined. While not a pure PG I like his long term fit with Tatum, Brown and Smart.

Lewis / Mannion, I have Lewis a couple tiers above Mannion and believe he has the potential to be a starter but ultimately I think both become solid backup PGs. The likely outcome of backup PG really limits their value and make them guys I would avoid in the top 25. Both with have strength issues in NBA and neither player did a great job finishing at the rim in college. Both players may be best in roles backing up large lead initiators like Simmons or Luka.

Maledon, is another player who I think is destine to be an NBA backup. However his size gives him more value as he should also be able to play an off ball role as a small wing. At 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan he is the same size as Jordon Clarkson making him a more versatile bench option.

I have said this a lot on here but I would also add Maxey to a list of PGs for the Cs to look at.

After Ball and Hayes who both are likely top 8 picks I would say that Hampton, Anthony, Maxey, and Terry are the best long term Cs fits. Terry is an outlier of this group because in a lot of ways he falls into the same trap for me as Lewis and Mannion. The difference is Terry is a good finisher and has a chance to be an elite shooter.   
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Re: What should have been draft week MOCK DRAFT
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2020, 11:26:17 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Thanks.  I do think DA could get up to get Anthony.  I've seen him around 11 in mocks, and 13th overall prospect.  Any higher, and no, but the Suns at 10, maybe....
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