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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2020, 11:56:34 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

With how weak the east was I think everyone on the list could make it.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2020, 12:20:31 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

With how weak the east was I think everyone on the list could make it.
^this. I didn't put Kobe as a lock because he wasn't on that super next level plane of existence during his peak, but he was still a better player than 2007 LeBron and would've had a pretty good shot at making the finals with that supporting cast imo.
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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2020, 01:42:24 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Troll, troll, troll...  🎻🎼

Quote from: Paul Pierce
"(James) played on the Miami Heat, who, in my eyes, underachieved," he said on ESPN's "NBA Countdown," "and were a Ray Allen shot away (in 2013) from only winning one championship. We ain't talking about that. How about that?"
Pierce wasn't convincing fellow panelists Jay Williams, Jalen Rose, Maria Taylor and Kendrick Perkins when he said the Heat "skated with two out of four" after they were expected to "run the table."

Heís not wrong on this one.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 03:46:52 PM by Roy H. »
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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2020, 02:11:25 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Sure do it.  What are these failures of Lebron outside of the Finals?  Or for that matter in the Finals (outside of Dallas)?

I wouldn't exactly call going 18 of 53 from the field for a whopping .339% FG% in three straight losses to close out a series his team was heavily favored in a whopping success.
True game 5 was pretty bad at 3 of 14 and just 6 rebounds and 7 assists.  Not a good game, but I have hard time calling game 4 and game 6 bad games.  I mean in game 6 he went for 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists (though 9 turnovers doesn't help).  And while the Cavs were favored, that team was pretty bad outside of Lebron.  Mo Williams was the #2 guy and very old Shaq and Jamison were probably 3 and 4 (or maybe Anthony Parker).  If 27, 19, and 10 is a bad game, sign me up.

He shot 38%.  8 for 21 in a must win game isn't exactly stellar. 9 of those points came from the FT line & his team lost by 9.  Nine turnovers is terrible.   And Game 4 was 38% also.  He was 0-5 from behind the arc too.

You can complain about his supporting cast all you want but they had home court & were heavily favored in that series.  You lose at home by 32?  C'mon.....

That's a letdown.  Plain & simple.
In that game 6, the Cavs as a team shot 38%.  I mean who was he supposed to pass to.  And for the record, in the 4th quarter he was 3 of 5 for 10 points with 6 rebounds, 2 assists, a block, and 2 turnovers.  The rest of the Cavs were 2 of 12 for 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, and 3 turnovers.  To some how blame that game on Lebron is just strange.  There is no question he was bad in game 5, but he was not in game 6.  It certainly wasn't a great game, it just was no where near a bad one. 
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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2020, 03:18:34 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sure do it.  What are these failures of Lebron outside of the Finals?  Or for that matter in the Finals (outside of Dallas)?

I wouldn't exactly call going 18 of 53 from the field for a whopping .339% FG% in three straight losses to close out a series his team was heavily favored in a whopping success.
True game 5 was pretty bad at 3 of 14 and just 6 rebounds and 7 assists.  Not a good game, but I have hard time calling game 4 and game 6 bad games.  I mean in game 6 he went for 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists (though 9 turnovers doesn't help).  And while the Cavs were favored, that team was pretty bad outside of Lebron.  Mo Williams was the #2 guy and very old Shaq and Jamison were probably 3 and 4 (or maybe Anthony Parker).  If 27, 19, and 10 is a bad game, sign me up.

He shot 38%.  8 for 21 in a must win game isn't exactly stellar. 9 of those points came from the FT line & his team lost by 9.  Nine turnovers is terrible.   And Game 4 was 38% also.  He was 0-5 from behind the arc too.

You can complain about his supporting cast all you want but they had home court & were heavily favored in that series.  You lose at home by 32?  C'mon.....

That's a letdown.  Plain & simple.
In that game 6, the Cavs as a team shot 38%.  I mean who was he supposed to pass to.  And for the record, in the 4th quarter he was 3 of 5 for 10 points with 6 rebounds, 2 assists, a block, and 2 turnovers.  The rest of the Cavs were 2 of 12 for 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, and 3 turnovers.  To some how blame that game on Lebron is just strange.  There is no question he was bad in game 5, but he was not in game 6.  It certainly wasn't a great game, it just was no where near a bad one.

I wouldnít blame the entire game on Lebron, that would be strange like you said.  It certainly doesnít take away from Lebron being a top 5 player, even top 3.

But Iím sorry, and getting back to the original point, when it comes to comparing Lebron to Jordan, these games really standout.  Jordan didnít have games like this when it mattered.  He didnít defer to another star on his team to bail him out. He just didnít.
Greg

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2020, 05:02:55 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Sure do it.  What are these failures of Lebron outside of the Finals?  Or for that matter in the Finals (outside of Dallas)?

I wouldn't exactly call going 18 of 53 from the field for a whopping .339% FG% in three straight losses to close out a series his team was heavily favored in a whopping success.
True game 5 was pretty bad at 3 of 14 and just 6 rebounds and 7 assists.  Not a good game, but I have hard time calling game 4 and game 6 bad games.  I mean in game 6 he went for 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists (though 9 turnovers doesn't help).  And while the Cavs were favored, that team was pretty bad outside of Lebron.  Mo Williams was the #2 guy and very old Shaq and Jamison were probably 3 and 4 (or maybe Anthony Parker).  If 27, 19, and 10 is a bad game, sign me up.

He shot 38%.  8 for 21 in a must win game isn't exactly stellar. 9 of those points came from the FT line & his team lost by 9.  Nine turnovers is terrible.   And Game 4 was 38% also.  He was 0-5 from behind the arc too.

You can complain about his supporting cast all you want but they had home court & were heavily favored in that series.  You lose at home by 32?  C'mon.....

That's a letdown.  Plain & simple.
In that game 6, the Cavs as a team shot 38%.  I mean who was he supposed to pass to.  And for the record, in the 4th quarter he was 3 of 5 for 10 points with 6 rebounds, 2 assists, a block, and 2 turnovers.  The rest of the Cavs were 2 of 12 for 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, and 3 turnovers.  To some how blame that game on Lebron is just strange.  There is no question he was bad in game 5, but he was not in game 6.  It certainly wasn't a great game, it just was no where near a bad one.

I wouldnít blame the entire game on Lebron, that would be strange like you said.  It certainly doesnít take away from Lebron being a top 5 player, even top 3.

But Iím sorry, and getting back to the original point, when it comes to comparing Lebron to Jordan, these games really standout.  Jordan didnít have games like this when it mattered.  He didnít defer to another star on his team to bail him out. He just didnít.
Ah yes because Jordan never shot 30% in a closeout game his team lost in the playoffs.  Or a playoff game where he had 8 shots in a 9 point loss.  Even in the midst of the 6 title seasons, Jordan had a game where he shot 25.7% in a Bulls loss and 26.7% in the same series though the Bulls won that one (he also had a 35.5% game in that same series).  He had a game where he was 3 of 18 in the Playoffs.  I mean 16.7% is epically bad.  He also shot 36% in a game 7 (though the Bulls won that won) and had all kinds of games under 35% in the Finals.  In the Seattle series alone he had games where he shot 31.6 and 26.3 (and that was the closeout game) and another at 40.9%.   

This idea that Jordan never had bad games just isn't borne out in reality.  He had them and he had them frequently enough that they weren't rare. 
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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2020, 05:59:15 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Sure do it.  What are these failures of Lebron outside of the Finals?  Or for that matter in the Finals (outside of Dallas)?

I wouldn't exactly call going 18 of 53 from the field for a whopping .339% FG% in three straight losses to close out a series his team was heavily favored in a whopping success.
True game 5 was pretty bad at 3 of 14 and just 6 rebounds and 7 assists.  Not a good game, but I have hard time calling game 4 and game 6 bad games.  I mean in game 6 he went for 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists (though 9 turnovers doesn't help).  And while the Cavs were favored, that team was pretty bad outside of Lebron.  Mo Williams was the #2 guy and very old Shaq and Jamison were probably 3 and 4 (or maybe Anthony Parker).  If 27, 19, and 10 is a bad game, sign me up.

He shot 38%.  8 for 21 in a must win game isn't exactly stellar. 9 of those points came from the FT line & his team lost by 9.  Nine turnovers is terrible.   And Game 4 was 38% also.  He was 0-5 from behind the arc too.

You can complain about his supporting cast all you want but they had home court & were heavily favored in that series.  You lose at home by 32?  C'mon.....

That's a letdown.  Plain & simple.
In that game 6, the Cavs as a team shot 38%.  I mean who was he supposed to pass to.  And for the record, in the 4th quarter he was 3 of 5 for 10 points with 6 rebounds, 2 assists, a block, and 2 turnovers.  The rest of the Cavs were 2 of 12 for 8 points, 8 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, and 3 turnovers.  To some how blame that game on Lebron is just strange.  There is no question he was bad in game 5, but he was not in game 6.  It certainly wasn't a great game, it just was no where near a bad one.

I wouldnít blame the entire game on Lebron, that would be strange like you said.  It certainly doesnít take away from Lebron being a top 5 player, even top 3.

But Iím sorry, and getting back to the original point, when it comes to comparing Lebron to Jordan, these games really standout.  Jordan didnít have games like this when it mattered.  He didnít defer to another star on his team to bail him out. He just didnít.
Ah yes because Jordan never shot 30% in a closeout game his team lost in the playoffs.  Or a playoff game where he had 8 shots in a 9 point loss.  Even in the midst of the 6 title seasons, Jordan had a game where he shot 25.7% in a Bulls loss and 26.7% in the same series though the Bulls won that one (he also had a 35.5% game in that same series).  He had a game where he was 3 of 18 in the Playoffs.  I mean 16.7% is epically bad.  He also shot 36% in a game 7 (though the Bulls won that won) and had all kinds of games under 35% in the Finals.  In the Seattle series alone he had games where he shot 31.6 and 26.3 (and that was the closeout game) and another at 40.9%.   

This idea that Jordan never had bad games just isn't borne out in reality.  He had them and he had them frequently enough that they weren't rare.

Paint it whichever way you want.  Show me a series where he completely dropped the ball like that Dallas series.  Or years where his team was the best in basketball with home court throughout but they couldnít get the job done in the playoffs

And just to save me some time, when youíre done typing your response to this, just read this reply over again.  Because you canít defend Lebrons performance in that Dallas series when comparing him to Jordan.  Lebron wasnít even the best player on his own team in that series
Greg

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2020, 10:15:43 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Lebron has quit on his teams several times , laid down .  I never saw MJ remotely look like he was quitting . 

Lebron is way over rated for making a team better .  His ability to SURVIVE ...avoid i jury and contact is his most amazing feat ..  here he king of longevity ...but also not a trait that would have won him over in the hearts of players from previous decades.   The NBA and loving media hids his obvious flaws all the time for him.  But its easy to see when you have previous decades of watching the best play to dectect.

MJ never quit on defense.  never stopped .