2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look: Conference Finals winners announced!!

[Who]

I'm about to select a 3rd string Center. Do you guys think I should go for a big body to throw at Shaq or for a mobile Center who can switch screens/defend the pick n roll?

I think a guy who can do both would be great, but if you had to choose I'd say the latter, you can have that guy foul Shaq every possession even if he's a stretch big.

Can't think of many players throughout the NBA history who could do both. Imo, there was only one such a player in this draft, but he was a complete liability on offense.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward the latter choice as well. There is no point in trying to outmuscle Shaq. At least the mobile Center would have an  advantage over him in speed, explosiveness and leaping ability.

Uhhhhhhhhh David Robinson is already one guy who can do both and is a definite plus on offence. He was like a seven foot SF out there (even in 1999 and 2000).

Robinson was one of the strongest big men ever, but I don't think he could stay in front of guards on D at the age of 35-36 (during the 1999-2000 season).

Off the top of my head, 3 names come to mind: Russell, Rodman and Ben Wallace. Maybe Wes Unseld as well? In all honesty, I don't know enough about his game. Maybe Robinson in his prime? Can't think of others right now.

He could though, he only lost that high end quickness after '02 (but was still quick for a big in his swansong).

His athleticism waned around the turn of the century, but even then, he was surprisingly nimble until 2002, when his back became an issue and his movement stiffened before retiring in 2003.

https://backpicks.com/2018/02/05/backpicks-goat-15-david-robinson/

Couple of defensive PnR possessions starting from 3:35
https://youtu.be/1RsNTWajXio

What small forward would you say an old Admiral compares to favorably?    I think that’s a bit of hyperbole.  Robinson still retained mobility for a couple of years after Duncan got there, but that was more of the “above-average for a ‘00 center”, rather than having the mobility to consistently defend the perimeter.

D-Rob lost his guard-like athleticism with that back injury in 1997. He was still an above average athlete at center with PF like quickness when he returned in 1998 but he was declining quickly year to year from that point on.

Sorta like Dwight Howard a couple of years ago. D-Rob could flash some athleticism here or there but he no longer had it on a nightly basis. And I question how well he could maintain that effort / mobility throughout a whole game defending modern PnRs.

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

[Moranis]

Through 12 rounds.  Brooklyn Nets


2020 CS Historical Draft

PG- Andre Miller
SG- Tracy McGrady
SF- Shawn Marion
PF- Anthony Davis
C- Yao Ming

Bench: Allen Iverson, Blake Griffin, Theo Ratliff, David West, Shane Battier, CJ McCollum, Eddie House

Love the team except for AI.   He is not going to be able to "get his" to the level he would accept.   

If somehow you are able to either brainwash him or get him when his money ran out, he would make a great offensive spark off the bench.

Yeah, legit criticism.  I mentioned a few days ago that I saw glimpse of his ability to accept more of a team role when it came to his national team & ASG team play.   That's about all I got in terms of getting him to buy in.

I'm not sure that is a fair criticism.  One of the reasons AI had so many FGA's is he played a ton of minutes.  I mean his career FGA per 36 minutes is 19.1, while Durant is 18.2, Lebron 18.4, Carmelo 19.1, Kobe is 19.4, etc.  Obviously AI was a volume shooter, but I don't think he was really much more of a volume shooter than many of the great scorers in history, what sets him apart from his modern contemporaries is his consistent ability to average over 40 mpg.  His ability to stay on the floor for huge minutes, with such a huge load, and bring it night after night is a toughness the league really hasn't seen since basically Wilt.

It's extremely fair criticism.

The statement was that Iverson wouldn't be able to get his shots due to....and this part is understood....the lack of minutes, role and Iverson's mental makeup.

Not sure what AI's shots per 36 plays into it. It's more a question of getting AI to buy into a role where he doesn't just shoot all the time, especially his bad shots, because he will have more efficient guys on the court with him.

My point was it was unfair because the criticism would work against many of those other players as well, yet AI seems to be single handedly singled out.  Everyone's role is going to be vastly different in this thing.  I'd probably take Iverson from 07-08 in Denver playing along side Anthony.  That season he had 26 and 7 with a TS% of 57 and still had the 2 steals.  That season compares very well (at least offensively) with basically any Kobe season, as an example.  Now obviously Kobe is a much better defender, but if you are talking about offensive fit, role, etc., I do find the AI criticism to be unfair in that others aren't criticized in the same manner for the same things.

There are a handful of us who treat Kobe similarly, and you see where Westbrook went.  Efficiency matters.

And yet you took Derrick Rose before AI.  Even MVP Rose only topped out at a TS% of 55 with a super high Usage (and he was under 50% TS for the playoffs that year as his shooting went into the tank). 

[Jvalin]

I'm about to select a 3rd string Center. Do you guys think I should go for a big body to throw at Shaq or for a mobile Center who can switch screens/defend the pick n roll?

I think a guy who can do both would be great, but if you had to choose I'd say the latter, you can have that guy foul Shaq every possession even if he's a stretch big.

Can't think of many players throughout the NBA history who could do both. Imo, there was only one such a player in this draft, but he was a complete liability on offense.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward the latter choice as well. There is no point in trying to outmuscle Shaq. At least the mobile Center would have an  advantage over him in speed, explosiveness and leaping ability.

Uhhhhhhhhh David Robinson is already one guy who can do both and is a definite plus on offence. He was like a seven foot SF out there (even in 1999 and 2000).

Robinson was one of the strongest big men ever, but I don't think he could stay in front of guards on D at the age of 35-36 (during the 1999-2000 season).

Off the top of my head, 3 names come to mind: Russell, Rodman and Ben Wallace. Maybe Wes Unseld as well? In all honesty, I don't know enough about his game. Maybe Robinson in his prime? Can't think of others right now.

He could though, he only lost that high end quickness after '02 (but was still quick for a big in his swansong).

His athleticism waned around the turn of the century, but even then, he was surprisingly nimble until 2002, when his back became an issue and his movement stiffened before retiring in 2003.

https://backpicks.com/2018/02/05/backpicks-goat-15-david-robinson/

Couple of defensive PnR possessions starting from 3:35
https://youtu.be/1RsNTWajXio

It's one thing to be "surprising nimble" given your age and a whole nother thing to be able to stay in front of guards. Don't get me wrong, Robinson was a beast (especially on the defensive side of the ball). I just don't think he was on the same level with Wallace when it comes to switching ball screens on D.

I'm on the road rn and I can't watch the video. I'll watch it later though.

I agree with you that an old Admiral wasn't on Wallace's level in switching ball screens on defence, but he was definitely able to step outside and guard the perimeter. Guys like Wallace and KG routinely shut down perimeter action that required the big to step outside - you don't need to be that good to meet the "switch screens/defend the pick and roll without a drop zone" requirement.

Again, KG was definitely quick enough to defend the pick n roll. He was nowhere near strong enough to cope with Shaq in the paint though.

I could name you numerous guys who are good pick n roll defenders. I'm about to draft one in a couple of hours. I can name you only a handful of players who can stay in front of guards on D and at the same time be strong enough to slow down Shaq in the paint. Imo, David Robinson at the age of 35 isn't one of them.

[Roy H.]

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

It’s impossible to say without a side by side comparison, but I think you might be underrating Zo or overrating Robinson here.  For most of Mourning’s career, I would agree, but in 1999 and 2000, he was a man possessed.  Back to back DPOY awards, defending all over the court.  I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “small spaces “, but in the lane Mourning was absolutely dominate that season. The number of dunks he blocked was extraordinary.

In terms of guys that I think could do a credible job on Shaq and also defend some on the perimeter, I would say Mourning, Ben Wallace, and Tim Duncan would be the three best bets.

[Who]

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

It’s impossible to say without a side by side comparison, but I think you might be underrating Zo or overrating Robinson here.  For most of Mourning’s career, I would agree, but in 1999 and 2000, he was a man possessed.  Back to back DPOY awards, defending all over the court.  I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “small spaces “, but in the lane Mourning was absolutely dominate that season. The number of dunks he blocked was extraordinary.

In terms of guys that I think could do a credible job on Shaq and also defend some on the perimeter, I would say Mourning, Ben Wallace, and Tim Duncan would be the three best bets.

Large spaces = three point line area
Small spaces = paint area rotations, one-on-one isos

I don't know that Mourning was quicker in the paint. I'd say his defensive positioning (off ball) and reading of the game was more the advantage there than athleticism. If I were to give him an advantage physically, I'd say it was more stamina than quickness / mobility. To maintain that effort so consistently throughout a game night after night.

Always get annoyed at much D-Rob has his hands down and standing straight-up on defense off the ball. Relied on his size and athleticism a lot. He could have been an even better defender than he was (which is saying something because he was a terrific defender).

[Roy H.]

Through 12 rounds.  Brooklyn Nets


2020 CS Historical Draft

PG- Andre Miller
SG- Tracy McGrady
SF- Shawn Marion
PF- Anthony Davis
C- Yao Ming

Bench: Allen Iverson, Blake Griffin, Theo Ratliff, David West, Shane Battier, CJ McCollum, Eddie House

Love the team except for AI.   He is not going to be able to "get his" to the level he would accept.   

If somehow you are able to either brainwash him or get him when his money ran out, he would make a great offensive spark off the bench.

Yeah, legit criticism.  I mentioned a few days ago that I saw glimpse of his ability to accept more of a team role when it came to his national team & ASG team play.   That's about all I got in terms of getting him to buy in.

I'm not sure that is a fair criticism.  One of the reasons AI had so many FGA's is he played a ton of minutes.  I mean his career FGA per 36 minutes is 19.1, while Durant is 18.2, Lebron 18.4, Carmelo 19.1, Kobe is 19.4, etc.  Obviously AI was a volume shooter, but I don't think he was really much more of a volume shooter than many of the great scorers in history, what sets him apart from his modern contemporaries is his consistent ability to average over 40 mpg.  His ability to stay on the floor for huge minutes, with such a huge load, and bring it night after night is a toughness the league really hasn't seen since basically Wilt.

It's extremely fair criticism.

The statement was that Iverson wouldn't be able to get his shots due to....and this part is understood....the lack of minutes, role and Iverson's mental makeup.

Not sure what AI's shots per 36 plays into it. It's more a question of getting AI to buy into a role where he doesn't just shoot all the time, especially his bad shots, because he will have more efficient guys on the court with him.

My point was it was unfair because the criticism would work against many of those other players as well, yet AI seems to be single handedly singled out.  Everyone's role is going to be vastly different in this thing.  I'd probably take Iverson from 07-08 in Denver playing along side Anthony.  That season he had 26 and 7 with a TS% of 57 and still had the 2 steals.  That season compares very well (at least offensively) with basically any Kobe season, as an example.  Now obviously Kobe is a much better defender, but if you are talking about offensive fit, role, etc., I do find the AI criticism to be unfair in that others aren't criticized in the same manner for the same things.

There are a handful of us who treat Kobe similarly, and you see where Westbrook went.  Efficiency matters.

And yet you took Derrick Rose before AI.  Even MVP Rose only topped out at a TS% of 55 with a super high Usage (and he was under 50% TS for the playoffs that year as his shooting went into the tank).

Rose was bigger and stronger, and is more suited to the role of Sixth Man.  Comparing their MVP seasons, Rose shot a higher FG%, 3PT%, eFG% and TS%, and had twice as many assists per possession.  For the stat heads, Rose had more win shares, a better BPM, and a better VORP.

So yes, I took a better player before Iverson, without doubt or regrets.

[Somebody]

I'm about to select a 3rd string Center. Do you guys think I should go for a big body to throw at Shaq or for a mobile Center who can switch screens/defend the pick n roll?

I think a guy who can do both would be great, but if you had to choose I'd say the latter, you can have that guy foul Shaq every possession even if he's a stretch big.

Can't think of many players throughout the NBA history who could do both. Imo, there was only one such a player in this draft, but he was a complete liability on offense.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward the latter choice as well. There is no point in trying to outmuscle Shaq. At least the mobile Center would have an  advantage over him in speed, explosiveness and leaping ability.

Uhhhhhhhhh David Robinson is already one guy who can do both and is a definite plus on offence. He was like a seven foot SF out there (even in 1999 and 2000).

Robinson was one of the strongest big men ever, but I don't think he could stay in front of guards on D at the age of 35-36 (during the 1999-2000 season).

Off the top of my head, 3 names come to mind: Russell, Rodman and Ben Wallace. Maybe Wes Unseld as well? In all honesty, I don't know enough about his game. Maybe Robinson in his prime? Can't think of others right now.

He could though, he only lost that high end quickness after '02 (but was still quick for a big in his swansong).

His athleticism waned around the turn of the century, but even then, he was surprisingly nimble until 2002, when his back became an issue and his movement stiffened before retiring in 2003.

https://backpicks.com/2018/02/05/backpicks-goat-15-david-robinson/

Couple of defensive PnR possessions starting from 3:35
https://youtu.be/1RsNTWajXio

It's one thing to be "surprising nimble" given your age and a whole nother thing to be able to stay in front of guards. Don't get me wrong, Robinson was a beast (especially on the defensive side of the ball). I just don't think he was on the same level with Wallace when it comes to switching ball screens on D.

I'm on the road rn and I can't watch the video. I'll watch it later though.

I agree with you that an old Admiral wasn't on Wallace's level in switching ball screens on defence, but he was definitely able to step outside and guard the perimeter. Guys like Wallace and KG routinely shut down perimeter action that required the big to step outside - you don't need to be that good to meet the "switch screens/defend the pick and roll without a drop zone" requirement.

Again, KG was definitely quick enough to defend the pick n roll. He was nowhere near strong enough to cope with Shaq in the paint though.

I could name you numerous guys who are good pick n roll defenders. I'm about to draft one in a couple of hours. I can name you only a handful of players who can stay in front of guards on D and at the same time be strong enough to slow down Shaq in the paint. Imo, David Robinson at the age of 35 isn't one of them.

I was talking about pure PnR defence, I don't think Garnett was a Shaq wall. And sure, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Somebody]

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

It’s impossible to say without a side by side comparison, but I think you might be underrating Zo or overrating Robinson here.  For most of Mourning’s career, I would agree, but in 1999 and 2000, he was a man possessed.  Back to back DPOY awards, defending all over the court.  I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “small spaces “, but in the lane Mourning was absolutely dominate that season. The number of dunks he blocked was extraordinary.

In terms of guys that I think could do a credible job on Shaq and also defend some on the perimeter, I would say Mourning, Ben Wallace, and Tim Duncan would be the three best bets.

Large spaces = three point line area
Small spaces = paint area rotations, one-on-one isos

I don't know that Mourning was quicker in the paint. I'd say his defensive positioning (off ball) and reading of the game was more the advantage there than athleticism. If I were to give him an advantage physically, I'd say it was more stamina than quickness / mobility. To maintain that effort so consistently throughout a game night after night.

Always get annoyed at much D-Rob has his hands down and standing straight-up on defense off the ball. Relied on his size and athleticism a lot. He could have been an even better defender than he was (which is saying something because he was a terrific defender).

Agree with the bolded, I find myself often getting annoyed with his defensive stance when he's not involved in the action.

Btw mind elaborating more on reading of the game?

[Who]

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

It’s impossible to say without a side by side comparison, but I think you might be underrating Zo or overrating Robinson here.  For most of Mourning’s career, I would agree, but in 1999 and 2000, he was a man possessed.  Back to back DPOY awards, defending all over the court.  I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “small spaces “, but in the lane Mourning was absolutely dominate that season. The number of dunks he blocked was extraordinary.

In terms of guys that I think could do a credible job on Shaq and also defend some on the perimeter, I would say Mourning, Ben Wallace, and Tim Duncan would be the three best bets.

Large spaces = three point line area
Small spaces = paint area rotations, one-on-one isos

I don't know that Mourning was quicker in the paint. I'd say his defensive positioning (off ball) and reading of the game was more the advantage there than athleticism. If I were to give him an advantage physically, I'd say it was more stamina than quickness / mobility. To maintain that effort so consistently throughout a game night after night.

Always get annoyed at much D-Rob has his hands down and standing straight-up on defense off the ball. Relied on his size and athleticism a lot. He could have been an even better defender than he was (which is saying something because he was a terrific defender).

Agree with the bolded, I find myself often getting annoyed with his defensive stance when he's not involved in the action.

Btw mind elaborating more on reading of the game?

I find Zo more alert - adapting to the position of the ball and the position of his defender - in order to be in position to provide the help. To be actively scanning the play to be in position.

I find D-Rob being good but not great at this (largely due to inactive defensive stance) but being able to recover phenomenally well because of his excellent size (7-1), quickness and leaping ability. Normal centers could not get away with what he gets away with.

-------

Leaping ability reminds me of that clip of Duncan & D-Rob interview during their first season together were they were asked if they had one thing that the other one has what would be - Duncan wished he could jump like D-Rob. D-Rob wished he had hands like Duncan. Said those big hands were key on his jump-hooks playing through contact.

[Who]

I would prefer Iverson over D-Rose talent wise. On a normal IRL team, I'd pick Iverson over Rose. Iverson was unstoppable. Rose was stoppable (as shown in playoffs against strong D).

On teams loaded with talent like these, I prefer Rose. I think he is easier to play with. Doesn't over-dribble as much / dominate the ball or flow of the offense as much. Plus, Rose is a much better defender.

I do have some offensive concerns with D-Rose (along with other high scoring guards with so-so jump-shots) but not as severe as my issues with Iverson.

My main issue with Iverson is how do you build a team around him? That is very hard. I can see D-Rose functioning in a few teams but Iverson is tougher. Despite the incredible talent that he has.

How do you create offensive balance and teamwork with Iverson ad-libbing / free-styling so much? Defensive balance is easy enough to accomplish. He just needs to defend PGs. But offensive balance is tricky.

What is the right offense to put around him? Both to allow AI to shine and to stop him from causing damage to / limiting the players around him?

[nickagneta]

I would prefer Iverson over D-Rose talent wise. On a normal IRL team, I'd pick Iverson over Rose. Iverson was unstoppable. Rose was stoppable (as shown in playoffs against strong D).

On teams loaded with talent like these, I prefer Rose. I think he is easier to play with. Doesn't over-dribble as much / dominate the ball or flow of the offense as much. Plus, Rose is a much better defender.

I do have some offensive concerns with D-Rose (along with other high scoring guards with so-so jump-shots) but not as severe as my issues with Iverson.

My main issue with Iverson is how do you build a team around him? That is very hard. I can see D-Rose functioning in a few teams but Iverson is tougher. Despite the incredible talent that he has.

How do you create offensive balance and teamwork with Iverson ad-libbing / free-styling so much? Defensive balance is easy enough to accomplish. He just needs to defend PGs. But offensive balance is tricky.

What is the right offense to put around him? Both to allow AI to shine and to stop him from causing damage to / limiting the players around him?

I wouldn't call Iverson unstoppable. I think a guy who regularly had a FG% in the low 40's(and sometimes high 30's), a 3PT% in the mid to high 20's, an eFG% in the mid 40's and a TS% in the low 50's isn't unstoppable.

What Iverson was was relentless in his pursuit of offense and unconscious in his ability to gauge a good shot. His unreal handle, speed and quickness made him a joy to watch up until he shot the ball where 25-40% of the time you winced thinking what a stupidly bad shot he just took.

Iverson was relentless. Not unstoppable.

And credit to him, he did play great in All-Star games and played well with other stars in those games, so maybe in this exercise he would meld better than some think.

[Moranis]

I would prefer Iverson over D-Rose talent wise. On a normal IRL team, I'd pick Iverson over Rose. Iverson was unstoppable. Rose was stoppable (as shown in playoffs against strong D).

On teams loaded with talent like these, I prefer Rose. I think he is easier to play with. Doesn't over-dribble as much / dominate the ball or flow of the offense as much. Plus, Rose is a much better defender.

I do have some offensive concerns with D-Rose (along with other high scoring guards with so-so jump-shots) but not as severe as my issues with Iverson.

My main issue with Iverson is how do you build a team around him? That is very hard. I can see D-Rose functioning in a few teams but Iverson is tougher. Despite the incredible talent that he has.

How do you create offensive balance and teamwork with Iverson ad-libbing / free-styling so much? Defensive balance is easy enough to accomplish. He just needs to defend PGs. But offensive balance is tricky.

What is the right offense to put around him? Both to allow AI to shine and to stop him from causing damage to / limiting the players around him?

Iverson had by far his two most efficient seasons (or season and a half) when he was playing with Carmelo Anthony.  I think his inability to adapt or play in this type of situation has been unfairly criticized.  when he was on a team with another great scorer, he shot less, took better shots, etc. and his efficiency went up significantly (he still got to the line and he actually shot a similar amount of 3 pointers he just made them at a much higher clip).  Part of the reason his efficiency was so low for much of his career, is he was burdened with such an incredible offensive load and was basically the entire offensive focus.  I mean he was the only even average scorer on the Sixers team he took the Finals (and basically all of those Sixer teams).  The rotation in the Finals was downright awful offensively, as such AI had to do the heavy lifting.  I mean seriously Mutombo might have been the 2nd best offensive player on that Finals team.  Mutombo offensive player.  I mean think about that. 

[Who]

I would prefer Iverson over D-Rose talent wise. On a normal IRL team, I'd pick Iverson over Rose. Iverson was unstoppable. Rose was stoppable (as shown in playoffs against strong D).

On teams loaded with talent like these, I prefer Rose. I think he is easier to play with. Doesn't over-dribble as much / dominate the ball or flow of the offense as much. Plus, Rose is a much better defender.

I do have some offensive concerns with D-Rose (along with other high scoring guards with so-so jump-shots) but not as severe as my issues with Iverson.

My main issue with Iverson is how do you build a team around him? That is very hard. I can see D-Rose functioning in a few teams but Iverson is tougher. Despite the incredible talent that he has.

How do you create offensive balance and teamwork with Iverson ad-libbing / free-styling so much? Defensive balance is easy enough to accomplish. He just needs to defend PGs. But offensive balance is tricky.

What is the right offense to put around him? Both to allow AI to shine and to stop him from causing damage to / limiting the players around him?

I wouldn't call Iverson unstoppable. I think a guy who regularly had a FG% in the low 40's(and sometimes high 30's), a 3PT% in the mid to high 20's, an eFG% in the mid 40's and a TS% in the low 50's isn't unstoppable.

What Iverson was was relentless in his pursuit of offense and unconscious in his ability to gauge a good shot. His unreal handle, speed and quickness made him a joy to watch up until he shot the ball where 25-40% of the time you winced thinking what a stupidly bad shot he just took.

Iverson was relentless. Not unstoppable.

And credit to him, he did play great in All-Star games and played well with other stars in those games, so maybe in this exercise he would meld better than some think.

Yeah I think we are saying the same thing. Just using different words. I would use unstoppable for low medium efficiency scorer as I would a high efficiency scorer. I would just rate one above the other. Iverson would rate lower than most here.

With Rose in 2011, you just knew Miami could take him out of the series by putting Wade or LeBron on him. A quick defensively able wing with good team D. Force him to shoot jumpers. And he was gone. Rose was young and this was fixable with time and hard work but injuries robbed him of the chance to do that.

Iverson meanwhile could have kept scoring against that Miami team. He simply was more creative and more versatile as an offensive player. He was great at using off-ball screens. He used them setup catch and shoot opportunities and to create dribble drive opportunities. Iverson had a better jump-shot. And I think he was even quicker than Rose off the bounce.

That is what allowed that relentless nature to have some success. That extra versatility in his scoring / shot creation. That is what made him so tough (impossible in my view) to game-plan out of games the way you could with D-Rose.

--------------------------------------------

I also think FG% and TS% of guys like Iverson deflates their offensive value because it ignores / fails to capture his passing & playmaking. How he created opportunities for others.

Few shooting guards can come close to Iverson in terms of volume playmaking for his teammates. It was a huge weapon for him offensively.

For that reason, I believe Iverson's total offensive value is considerably higher than his scoring efficiency would indicate.

[Somebody]

I would rate D-Rob's quickness and mobility as similar to Alonzo Mourning in 2000. I'd say D-Rob was quicker in small spaces and Zo more consistently mobile in large space.

It’s impossible to say without a side by side comparison, but I think you might be underrating Zo or overrating Robinson here.  For most of Mourning’s career, I would agree, but in 1999 and 2000, he was a man possessed.  Back to back DPOY awards, defending all over the court.  I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “small spaces “, but in the lane Mourning was absolutely dominate that season. The number of dunks he blocked was extraordinary.

In terms of guys that I think could do a credible job on Shaq and also defend some on the perimeter, I would say Mourning, Ben Wallace, and Tim Duncan would be the three best bets.

Large spaces = three point line area
Small spaces = paint area rotations, one-on-one isos

I don't know that Mourning was quicker in the paint. I'd say his defensive positioning (off ball) and reading of the game was more the advantage there than athleticism. If I were to give him an advantage physically, I'd say it was more stamina than quickness / mobility. To maintain that effort so consistently throughout a game night after night.

Always get annoyed at much D-Rob has his hands down and standing straight-up on defense off the ball. Relied on his size and athleticism a lot. He could have been an even better defender than he was (which is saying something because he was a terrific defender).

Agree with the bolded, I find myself often getting annoyed with his defensive stance when he's not involved in the action.

Btw mind elaborating more on reading of the game?

I find Zo more alert - adapting to the position of the ball and the position of his defender - in order to be in position to provide the help. To be actively scanning the play to be in position.

I find D-Rob being good but not great at this (largely due to inactive defensive stance) but being able to recover phenomenally well because of his excellent size (7-1), quickness and leaping ability. Normal centers could not get away with what he gets away with.

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Leaping ability reminds me of that clip of Duncan & D-Rob interview during their first season together were they were asked if they had one thing that the other one has what would be - Duncan wished he could jump like D-Rob. D-Rob wished he had hands like Duncan. Said those big hands were key on his jump-hooks playing through contact.

Yeah that was my assessment as well - Robinson was a great athlete who relied on his gifts to recover lapses in concentration (they didn't hurt him a ton, he was still a very low error defender, but it made him slightly tardy in some rotations). I do think that this is nitpicking a bit though, Robinson was often in good position to provide help defence and was rarely caught out of position, and often recovered well enough on the rare occasion that his lapses caught him.

[Roy H.]

What is the right offense to put around him? Both to allow AI to shine and to stop him from causing damage to / limiting the players around him?

Yeah, that’s my concern.  On a lesser level, we used to have that debate every year in the CB draft about Monta Ellis. The guy was so talented, but every time he was drafted his fit was questions. It eventually turned into a discussion of, is it possible to construct a team that Ellis does fit on?  I think the answer was no.

Iverson is like super Monta Ellis, with way more heart.  He’s amazingly talented, But he is tough to build around. That’s why he fell so far, and that’s why even on a team as talented as Don’s, there is still a debate regarding where he belongs.