2020 Historical Draft Thread: Draft over. Playoffs coming soon!

[tazzmaniac]

If I counted correctly, 5 of the 13 individuals who won MVPs over this time frame are yet to be selected.  Not surprised by any of them but it will be interesting to see how they will be drafted (i.e. talent vs. fit).

To further this point, I can definitely see 1, maybe 2 not being picked in the second round

I see three not getting picked in the second round - they're low portability players who don't give you MVP value even if you build around them.

Well you were correct.  Do you care to predict how many of the 3 remaining MVPs don't get selected in the 3rd round? 

[action781]

If I counted correctly, 5 of the 13 individuals who won MVPs over this time frame are yet to be selected.  Not surprised by any of them but it will be interesting to see how they will be drafted (i.e. talent vs. fit).

To further this point, I can definitely see 1, maybe 2 not being picked in the second round

I see three not getting picked in the second round - they're low portability players who don't give you MVP value even if you build around them.

Well you were correct.  Do you care to predict how many of the 3 remaining MVPs don't get selected in the 3rd round?

I've got thoughts on them, but I'll try my best to refrain until they've been drafted. Just had to delete a paragraph I wrote to hold myself to that.

[RodyTur10]

Hill & Howard were the two guys in that round that I had no idea how to value.

I sent my draftboard to Nick, so he knows that I had Davis at 1.
Bummer, that I just found out that you took Anthony Davis. (picking 14 and 15 is an advantage over 13 and 16 I think)

I am in agreement that my edge over other PF's would be bigger with Davis than the edge with Howard over other C's. Although peak Howard 2008-2010 is in my book without question the best rim protector (probably tied with someone else) and also a big vertical offensive weapon (especially with a PG like Paul who can set him up).

[gouki88]

I think evaluating Grant Hill really comes down to personal preference. I love his talent, and to get a guy putting up 26/7/5 on good efficiency at this stage is fine by me. I think he’d be closer to a great/elite defender, rather than the good defender he was in Detroit, with a slightly lesser offensive responsibility like he’ll have alongside Curry.

I also was feeling free to be a little bit left field because I have the first pick of the next round

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I think evaluating Grant Hill really comes down to personal preference. I love his talent, and to get a guy putting up 26/7/5 on good efficiency at this stage is fine by me. I think he’d be closer to a great/elite defender, rather than the good defender he was in Detroit, with a slightly lesser offensive responsibility like he’ll have alongside Curry.

I also was feeling free to be a little bit left field because I have the first pick of the next round

99-00 Grant Hill is still pretty elite.

All-NBA 2nd team, still a top scoring option. That's as top a player as any, I would draft that guy in the 2nd round. I don't know which years you want to use him with. He was a good complimentary player during his Suns years, but not someone who I would draft that player where you got him.

[RPGenerate]

I'm torn on Grant Hill. He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent, but his lack of any playoffs success really hurts him. Plus I think he's a bit tricky to build around, and he needs the ball in his hands to play his game. However, I do think Steph complements him quite well.

[gouki88]

I think evaluating Grant Hill really comes down to personal preference. I love his talent, and to get a guy putting up 26/7/5 on good efficiency at this stage is fine by me. I think he’d be closer to a great/elite defender, rather than the good defender he was in Detroit, with a slightly lesser offensive responsibility like he’ll have alongside Curry.

I also was feeling free to be a little bit left field because I have the first pick of the next round

99-00 Grant Hill is still pretty elite.

All-NBA 2nd team, still a top scoring option. That's as top a player as any, I would draft that guy in the 2nd round. I don't know which years you want to use him with. He was a good complimentary player during his Suns years, but not someone who I would draft that player where you got him.

Im definitely using 99-00. I think that Grant Hill is an elite #2 for a game like this. Wing who can score, rebound, pass and defend.

I'm torn on Grant Hill. He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent, but his lack of any playoffs success really hurts him. Plus I think he's a bit tricky to build around, and he needs the ball in his hands to play his game. However, I do think Steph complements him quite well.

That’s definitely fair. That’s why I paired him with the foundation of a multi-championship winning dynasty

[Yoki_IsTheName]

So, I might need some feedback if you guys will.

I think I'm pretty certain that I will be picking the 2018-19 season for Paul George. All-NBA 1st team. All-NBA Defense 1st team. Led the league in steals. 3rd in MVP voting.

But I'm still torn between 01-02 vs 05-06 Paul Pierce. I like 02-03 Pierce because he played primarily as an SG there (which will help me slide PG in his natural SF spot), and he's still fairly athletic, but compare to his 05-06 counterpart, he's still a bit inexperienced, and doesn't have the leadership skills yet.

I also don't know which one would be the #1 guy. As I mentioned, both could be the main weapon, and both could easily defer. Although I do know who to give the ball to in clutch moments. He isn't called The Truth for nothing.

[Moranis]

Another very strange round for me.  Some really big reaches and some other guys seemingly lucking into players that have fallen.  There are also some shockingly good players/years out there, and I don't just mean from the guys that are hard to fit a team concept around that everyone knows.  I almost feel like you could select 2 guys not yet drafted and have as good a start to a team as several duos out there.

[gouki88]

Another very strange round for me.  Some really big reaches and some other guys seemingly lucking into players that have fallen.  There are also some shockingly good players/years out there, and I don't just mean from the guys that are hard to fit a team concept around that everyone knows.  I almost feel like you could select 2 guys not yet drafted and have as good a start to a team as several duos out there.

I think it should be pretty clear by now that people are choosing players they like and want to defend over pure talent. Makes for a better game IMO

[Who]

So, I might need some feedback if you guys will.

I think I'm pretty certain that I will be picking the 2018-19 season for Paul George. All-NBA 1st team. All-NBA Defense 1st team. Led the league in steals. 3rd in MVP voting.

But I'm still torn between 01-02 vs 05-06 Paul Pierce. I like 02-03 Pierce because he played primarily as an SG there (which will help me slide PG in his natural SF spot), and he's still fairly athletic, but compare to his 05-06 counterpart, he's still a bit inexperienced, and doesn't have the leadership skills yet.

I also don't know which one would be the #1 guy. As I mentioned, both could be the main weapon, and both could easily defer. Although I do know who to give the ball to in clutch moments. He isn't called The Truth for nothing.

I go with young Pierce if you are planning on him at SG. I go 2002 because of his shooting percentages & long playoff run.

I wouldn't worry much about who is #1 or #2. Team still has a long ways to go to take shape. Your team might be a team with little difference between #1 or #2 or #3. Might end up playing more with balance than hierarchy.

Then again, maybe not. In that case, I'd go Pierce. More diverse scoring repertoire, better ball-handling and passing & just plain tougher (doesn't settle for long jumpers as much as PG13, why Pierce gets so many more FTs). That strength of will is not to be underestimated.

[gouki88]

So, I might need some feedback if you guys will.

I think I'm pretty certain that I will be picking the 2018-19 season for Paul George. All-NBA 1st team. All-NBA Defense 1st team. Led the league in steals. 3rd in MVP voting.

But I'm still torn between 01-02 vs 05-06 Paul Pierce. I like 02-03 Pierce because he played primarily as an SG there (which will help me slide PG in his natural SF spot), and he's still fairly athletic, but compare to his 05-06 counterpart, he's still a bit inexperienced, and doesn't have the leadership skills yet.

I also don't know which one would be the #1 guy. As I mentioned, both could be the main weapon, and both could easily defer. Although I do know who to give the ball to in clutch moments. He isn't called The Truth for nothing.

I go with young Pierce if you are planning on him at SG. I go 2002 because of his shooting percentages & long playoff run.

I wouldn't worry much about who is #1 or #2. Team still has a long ways to go to take shape. Your team might be a team with little difference between #1 or #2 or #3. Might end up playing more with balance than hierarchy.

Then again, maybe not. In that case, I'd go Pierce. More diverse scoring repertoire, better ball-handling and passing & just plain tougher (doesn't settle for long jumpers as much as PG13, why Pierce gets so many more FTs). That strength of will is not to be underestimated.

I agree. Having taken PP in the All-Time draft (admittedly as a #3 option) I think young PP is a good bet. SG with elite scoring and rebounding, good passing and defence, and got to the line like few else. Will open up things for PG too.

I think not getting too stressed about it until you have your starters all picked is probably wise. It’s much easier when you know who the surrounding talent is

[action781]

So, I might need some feedback if you guys will.

I think I'm pretty certain that I will be picking the 2018-19 season for Paul George. All-NBA 1st team. All-NBA Defense 1st team. Led the league in steals. 3rd in MVP voting.

But I'm still torn between 01-02 vs 05-06 Paul Pierce. I like 02-03 Pierce because he played primarily as an SG there (which will help me slide PG in his natural SF spot), and he's still fairly athletic, but compare to his 05-06 counterpart, he's still a bit inexperienced, and doesn't have the leadership skills yet.

I also don't know which one would be the #1 guy. As I mentioned, both could be the main weapon, and both could easily defer. Although I do know who to give the ball to in clutch moments. He isn't called The Truth for nothing.

I insist that you don't dismiss 07-08 Pierce from the conversation.  Here's my reasoning why.  While unfortunately and not-so-subtly tooting the horn of one of my own players. 

If you take 01-02 Paul Pierce... who was a better player that season:  Pierce or Jason Kidd?  I don't think its much of a question by the eyeball test that season.  But if you still wanted to try to argue Pierce, then almost zero metrics are there to back your argument up.  And you took Pierce a full round before Kidd.  This is an awfully narrow-minded approach, but there's still something truthful here.  And it doesn't help you.  And Jason Kidd wasn't even the best player in the league that season.

07-08 Pierce though... who was better?  Kobe?  That Finals MVP trophy thinks otherwise.  Lebron?  See round 2 game 7.  Was Pierce actually better than those players that season?  At least its debatable.  Pierce said at the end of the season that he's the best player in the world and people on CB was saying "Hey, he's got some ground to stand on at least"

I think there are still players out there to be drafted who you can count on being your #1 guy for 40 minutes while 07-08 Pierce is your #1 guy for the last 8 minutes.  That's a nice team.  I'll PM you some ideas.

EDIT:  Doesn't matter who is which position.  Play them both as wings on offense and put Paul George on SG and Pierce on SF defensively.  Or maybe you draft another SG and push Paul George to the PF spot.  That could be interesting.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

So, I might need some feedback if you guys will.

I think I'm pretty certain that I will be picking the 2018-19 season for Paul George. All-NBA 1st team. All-NBA Defense 1st team. Led the league in steals. 3rd in MVP voting.

But I'm still torn between 01-02 vs 05-06 Paul Pierce. I like 02-03 Pierce because he played primarily as an SG there (which will help me slide PG in his natural SF spot), and he's still fairly athletic, but compare to his 05-06 counterpart, he's still a bit inexperienced, and doesn't have the leadership skills yet.

I also don't know which one would be the #1 guy. As I mentioned, both could be the main weapon, and both could easily defer. Although I do know who to give the ball to in clutch moments. He isn't called The Truth for nothing.

I insist that you don't dismiss 07-08 Pierce from the conversation.  Here's my reasoning why.  While unfortunately and not-so-subtly tooting the horn of one of my own players. 

If you take 01-02 Paul Pierce... who was a better player that season:  Pierce or Jason Kidd?  I don't think its much of a question by the eyeball test that season.  But if you still wanted to try to argue Pierce, then almost zero metrics are there to back your argument up.  And you took Pierce a full round before Kidd.  This is an awfully narrow-minded approach, but there's still something truthful here.  And it doesn't help you.  And Jason Kidd wasn't even the best player in the league that season.

07-08 Pierce though... who was better?  Kobe?  That Finals MVP trophy thinks otherwise.  Lebron?  See round 2 game 7.  Was Pierce actually better than those players that season?  At least its debatable.  Pierce said at the end of the season that he's the best player in the world and people on CB was saying "Hey, he's got some ground to stand on at least"

I think there are still players out there to be drafted who you can count on being your #1 guy for 40 minutes while 07-08 Pierce is your #1 guy for the last 8 minutes.  That's a nice team.  I'll PM you some ideas.

EDIT:  Doesn't matter who is which position.  Play them both as wings on offense and put Paul George on SG and Pierce on SF defensively.  Or maybe you draft another SG and push Paul George to the PF spot.  That could be interesting.

You really are selling me to this idea, and I'm starting to really like it.

The 19.6 PPG might be a little too low for me, but I can totally see why that could be misleading too. He was still terrific defensively this year, and yeah, at this point he's already battle tested and is more than ready to reach the top.

Thank you for this.

[action781]

Very few players in this game will be called upon to score more than 19.6ppg while surrounded by so many other stars.