2020 Historical Draft Thread: Draft over. Playoffs coming soon!

[Who]

I'm satisfied with picks so far. I think Payton and Duncan are a fantastic defensive duo. Now I just need to fill out my wing spots.

I was half thinking of playing Payton as a two guard in this league ... well as one of two PGs in a two PG backcourt.

His team defense was still superb in 2000 but his man defense was slipping at the PG position. They stopped him hand-checking that year and he struggled to keep up with quick guards (which is a good indicator of how he'd fare under today's even more extreme no hand checking rules). Payton was still an elite man defender against wings though (so added defensive value). He did better against bigger wings because he was still quicker than them. Plus, he'd give you an extra ball-handler / ball-security & creativity as a second playmaker on the perimeter. And he played well alongside a second PG during that 2000 period too. That allowed him to score more during that period. Be more selfish on offense. Part of why his stats went up.

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I was wondering if I picked Payton at 2.8, would Kidd be there at 3.7 to put them alongside one another .... good to know that was never an option. Kidd well gone before then.

I loved the idea of putting them together.

They were All-NBA First Team together at some point, weren't they? Plus they played together in All-Star Games and in the Olympics. They worked well off of one another.

I think Payton was underrated offensively as well. He was really skilled on that end and had the size and leverage himself into easy looks. Overrated defensively though, I think what you said about him is telling about his defence.

I love the way Payton pushes the ball in transition. He creates so many high percentage transition opportunities for his teammates. He did that brilliantly in Seattle and in All-Star Games.

His teammates would love that in this Historical League and it would be hugely valuable. Easier shot attempts in transition vs top quality half-court defenses.

[action781]

In a vacuum, prime Grant Hill is a top 10 guy in this draft (if not even higher than that).

I don't think Grant Hill is anywhere near a top 10 guy in this draft.  When you just compare him to his peers in his best season in the 2000s, he finished 8th in MVP voting and was all-NBA second team.  I just don't see how you can argue him in comparison to any of the top 11 guys drafted in this game.  He's pretty firmly in the mix with the guys picked 12-28 though and a few still to be picked.

Great player, but I think his draft slot was just fine.

[Who]

Hill & Howard were the two guys in that round that I had no idea how to value.

Howard I rated very high. I love his game. Never wound up in that anti-Dwight camp. I just loved his defense so much. I adore interior defenders ... and Dwight, in my opinion, controlled the paint defensively & the defensive backboards better than any other big man in the 21 century.

Huge asset in a game / league full of scorers to have a guy who can add value to your team without the ball the way Dwight can.

[RPGenerate]

I'm satisfied with picks so far. I think Payton and Duncan are a fantastic defensive duo. Now I just need to fill out my wing spots.

I was half thinking of playing Payton as a two guard in this league ... well as one of two PGs in a two PG backcourt.

His team defense was still superb in 2000 but his man defense was slipping at the PG position. They stopped him hand-checking that year and he struggled to keep up with quick guards (which is a good indicator of how he'd fare under today's even more extreme no hand checking rules).

Payton was still an elite man defender against wings though (so added defensive value). He did better against bigger wings because he was still quicker than them. Plus, he'd give you an extra ball-handler / ball-security & creativity as a second playmaker on the perimeter. And he played well alongside a second PG during that 2000 period too. That allowed him to score more during that period. Be more selfish on offense. Part of why his stats went up.

Anyway, just an alternate option. I'd also be perfectly happy with him at PG. Like I said, his team defense was still stellar at that position and made him an overall net positive on defense despite being more vulnerable at the point of attack / dribble penetration. Heck, I've got Nash! I'd love to have Gary Payton's defense!

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I was wondering if I picked Payton at 2.8, would Kidd be there at 3.7 to put them alongside one another .... good to know that was never an option. Kidd well gone before then.

I loved the idea of putting them together.

They were All-NBA First Team together at some point, weren't they? Plus they played together in All-Star Games and in the Olympics. They worked well off of one another.

He was still on the NBA All-Defensive First Team, and I think it fair to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he would adapt to playing without handchecking in the modern age. Point (guard) taken though. I think whether I use him as a 1 or a 2 depends on who becomes available in these next couple of rounds. Kidd/Payton backcourt would be awesome defensively, but I do worry about the spacing though.

[Moranis]

Well several of the players I was thinking of went, but there are still a couple that are on the board that I'm surprised are still on the board. 

[Jvalin]

With the last pick of the round, the Los Angeles Clippers select another forgotten man...

Grant Hill

Prime Grant Hill was the first LeBron James! He was the face of the league at the time. The 1999-2000 season was his best season. Having said that, he got injured a few games prior to the end of the regular season. He was a ghost of his former self in the playoffs.

Really not sure how to rank Hill for the purposes of our game. Is he an all-time great or is he a nonfactor cause has was unable to help his team when they needed him the most?

Btw, he is the guy I had in mind when I made this post, a few days ago.

Quick question:

Let's say a player had a stellar regular season, but missed the playoffs due to injury. How do we rank him when deciding which team wins the draft? Is he a nonfactor cause he wasn't available in the post season? I mean, championships are won in the post season, not in the regular season.

In a vacuum, prime Grant Hill is a top 10 guy in this draft (if not even higher than that).

Yeah, I was the same with Grant Hill. I did not know how to value him. I don't mind a guy missing 10-20 regular season games but missing the whole playoffs is tough. So I took him off my top tiers and rated him more along the lines of his one healthy year in Orlando after they traded T-Mac.

... I have to say though, I feel a bit silly to care so much about 10 missed playoffs games but not to care about 10 missed regular season games. That doesn't quite feel right to me.

The Pistons played 3 playoff games that season. Hill tried to play through the injury, but was forced to leave halfway through game 2.

In this 1.5 game, he averaged 11 points (on 37.5% from the floor), 5.5 rebs and 4.5 assists. In comparison, his respective numbers for the regular season were 25.8 points (on 48.9% from the floor), 6.6 rebs and 5.2 assists.

Grant Hill was one of my favourite players when I was a kid. I remember selecting the Pistons in NBA Live 98(?) just because of him. Unfortunately, he was never the same player after that ankle injury.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

The Oklahoma City Pauls



Yeah, both picks might be a reach, but I like where we are. We essentially have two very good wing players who can get their own, and can work with each other. Both are good defenders in their own rights (in the case of PG, elite).

We are happy where we are after round 2. It's just a matter of rounding the team up in the next coming selections.

[Jvalin]

Just a quick look on all the teams so far.

Mavs: LeBron - Ray Allen
Raps: KG - David Robinson
Jazz: Shaq - Jason Kidd
Nuggets: Duncan - Gary Payton
Clips: Steph - Grant Hill
Sixers: Kawhi - Klay Thompson
Celtics: Durant - Nash
Bucks: Giannis - Alonzo Mourning
Lakers: Kobe - Chris Webber
Rockets: Wade - Harden
Pacers: Dirk - Embiid
Thunder: Pierce - Paul George
Heat: Chris Paul - Dwight Howard
Nets: McGrady - Anthony Davis

There are plenty of interesting duos. Not sure which one is the best to be honest.

[Moranis]

Just a quick look on all the teams so far.

Mavs: LeBron - Ray Allen
Raps: KG - David Robinson
Jazz: Shaq - Jason Kidd
Nuggets: Duncan - Gary Payton
Clips: Steph - Grant Hill
Sixers: Kawhi - Klay Thompson
Celtics: Durant - Nash
Bucks: Giannis - Alonzo Mourning
Lakers: Kobe - Chris Webber
Rockets: Wade - Harden
Pacers: Dirk - Embiid
Thunder: Pierce - Paul George
Heat: Chris Paul - Dwight Howard
Nets: McGrady - Anthony Davis

There are plenty of interesting duos. Not sure which one is the best to be honest.

Jazz, Nuggets, and Celtics seem like the 3 front runners to me.  Thought all 3 took BPA (with great value) in the first round and got quality value, if not BPA, from their 2nd round picks.  They all still have plenty of time to mess it up though.

[GreenFaith1819]

Plenty of gems and sleepers left, as well.

Love all the picks so far.

Getting BPA is one thing, but for ME "FIT" is the most important.

Can players PLAY off each other's strengths? Can they cover for each other's weaknesses?

Are they unselfish? Willing to feed the other if they get hot?

Spacing is important.

Personalities.

Would love to be able to draft coaches here as well.

[tazzmaniac]

Didn't realize the 99-00 season was being included.  Makes a big difference for Hill and Mourning. 

[Who]

Just a quick look on all the teams so far.

Mavs: LeBron - Ray Allen
Raps: KG - David Robinson
Jazz: Shaq - Jason Kidd
Nuggets: Duncan - Gary Payton
Clips: Steph - Grant Hill
Sixers: Kawhi - Klay Thompson
Celtics: Durant - Nash
Bucks: Giannis - Alonzo Mourning
Lakers: Kobe - Chris Webber
Rockets: Wade - Harden
Pacers: Dirk - Embiid
Thunder: Pierce - Paul George
Heat: Chris Paul - Dwight Howard
Nets: McGrady - Anthony Davis

There are plenty of interesting duos. Not sure which one is the best to be honest.

I am excited about the Kobe & C-Webb team. Surprised about that to be honest - to be that excited about a Kobe Bryant team but Kobe himself is such an interesting player and C-Webb is awesome.

Webber would be even better today as a high post center -- like Don Nelson wanted him to be in 1993-94 in GSW before Webber threw his hissy fit -- than he (Webber) was 20 years ago in his prime with Sacramento in his own era. Born too early.

[tazzmaniac]

Just a quick look on all the teams so far.

Mavs: LeBron - Ray Allen
Raps: KG - David Robinson
Jazz: Shaq - Jason Kidd
Nuggets: Duncan - Gary Payton
Clips: Steph - Grant Hill
Sixers: Kawhi - Klay Thompson
Celtics: Durant - Nash
Bucks: Giannis - Alonzo Mourning
Lakers: Kobe - Chris Webber
Rockets: Wade - Harden
Pacers: Dirk - Embiid
Thunder: Pierce - Paul George
Heat: Chris Paul - Dwight Howard
Nets: McGrady - Anthony Davis

There are plenty of interesting duos. Not sure which one is the best to be honest.

Jazz, Nuggets, and Celtics seem like the 3 front runners to me.  Thought all 3 took BPA (with great value) in the first round and got quality value, if not BPA, from their 2nd round picks.  They all still have plenty of time to mess it up though.

Of those 3, I'd put the Nuggets ahead.  Both selections are very good offensively and defensively and they are versatile so they have more options with their upcoming selections.  The Jazz have to get shooting.  The Celts have Nash's defense to deal with. 

[Jvalin]

Just a quick look on all the teams so far.

Mavs: LeBron - Ray Allen
Raps: KG - David Robinson
Jazz: Shaq - Jason Kidd
Nuggets: Duncan - Gary Payton
Clips: Steph - Grant Hill
Sixers: Kawhi - Klay Thompson
Celtics: Durant - Nash
Bucks: Giannis - Alonzo Mourning
Lakers: Kobe - Chris Webber
Rockets: Wade - Harden
Pacers: Dirk - Embiid
Thunder: Pierce - Paul George
Heat: Chris Paul - Dwight Howard
Nets: McGrady - Anthony Davis

There are plenty of interesting duos. Not sure which one is the best to be honest.

Jazz, Nuggets, and Celtics seem like the 3 front runners to me.  Thought all 3 took BPA (with great value) in the first round and got quality value, if not BPA, from their 2nd round picks.  They all still have plenty of time to mess it up though.

My favorite duos would be Shaq-Kidd, Duncan-Payton and Kawhi-Klay (in random order).

Imo, Shaq and Kidd would form the best pick n roll duo of all time. Even better than Stockton and Malone. All this team needs now is 3 deadly shooters.

Love Duncan and Payton.  Fwiw, Gary Payton is the only player in NBA history to lead the league in three pointers and assists in the same year, doing so in 2000. Best trash talker of all time as well. Was hoping to draft him with my 3rd round pick. Oh well.

Kawhi and Klay is probably the easiest duo to build around. Both of them are 2-way players who don't need the ball in their hands on offense in order to maximize their effectiveness.

The Celts have Nash's defense to deal with.

My problem with Nash (besides his defense) is that he mostly had one speed: Full speed.

Up-tempo basketball works great during the regular season. Not so much during the post season. Rule of thumb is that the game slows down come playoff time. You gotta be able to adjust. If you ask me, this is the reason the Suns failed to make the edit WCF NBA Finals under D'Antoni. Btw, the same goes for the current Rockets team as well.

[nickagneta]

Please, again, do not mention players that haven't been drafted yet in this thread. I just deleted 2 posts(one mentioning a player, another responding to the first post) that had done so, if people are wondering where those posts went.