Follow us on Twitter  

Author Topic: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka  (Read 1866 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« on: February 13, 2020, 04:33:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11443
  • Tommy Points: 1215
Maybe other people hear this talked about more, but I had completely forgotten what the Magic gave up for Sergie Ibaka, both Sabonis and Oladipo. Given that Sabonis is now an all-star alongside Oladipo, where does this rank on the trades of the last 10 years for awfulness. Ibaka played 56 games for Magic and averaged 15 points and 8 rebounds before being flipped for Terrance Ross and a late first. Is this arguably worse than the Harden Trade? It is hard to track the full results of this but the Thunder got Lamb and two first round picks as part of their harden deal. Not sure if those turned into anything substantial.

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2020, 05:26:58 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6521
  • Tommy Points: 761
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Maybe other people hear this talked about more, but I had completely forgotten what the Magic gave up for Sergie Ibaka, both Sabonis and Oladipo. Given that Sabonis is now an all-star alongside Oladipo, where does this rank on the trades of the last 10 years for awfulness. Ibaka played 56 games for Magic and averaged 15 points and 8 rebounds before being flipped for Terrance Ross and a late first. Is this arguably worse than the Harden Trade? It is hard to track the full results of this but the Thunder got Lamb and two first round picks as part of their harden deal. Not sure if those turned into anything substantial.

One of the first round picks for the Harden deal turned into Steven Adams. Also K-Mart was included in that OKC deal, which is one of the reasons why Presti was content. He believed K-Mart could replicated Harden's numbers, despite the over-creasing fact that K-Mart wasn't substantially that great enough of a scorer to justify his weak defensive capabilities.

The totality of the trade included Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 1st, (Mitch McGary + Adams) and 2nd late rounder.

I would wager that the Harden trade was subsequently worse than Ibaka, given the fact Harden has been MVP, 8x Allstar, and All-NBA when he left.

But you can also argue the fact ORL tanked relatively for the past few years, with almost virtually nothing to show for it other than Isaac, Fultz, AG, and Vuvecic. (Their infatuation with making Aaron Gordon the small forward befuddles me.)

Both trades were colossally horrendous, they were also both criticized heavily when they first emerged from reports. A lot of people predicted Ibaka wouldn't be able to lead any team as the 3rd/2nd option, let alone make up for the trade haul sent over to bring him in. The Magic literally tanked for Oladipo + Sabonis, (they didn't purposely, but they blew enough to end up in those draft slots,) essentially and just gave up on those two players so quickly for Ibaka...

Serge freakin' Ibaka.

This is a player who many questioned the validity of his official birth date. He had fallen from averaging 2.7-3.7 BPG to literally 1.6 within the next 3-4 years. His numbers clearly told a story his game wasn't going to age well.

Honestly, Magic, Kings, Hawks, Suns, and the Hornets remind me time and time again how blessed we are to have Danny Ainge. Every time someone complains or criticizes Ainge, I always remind them there are far worse franchises + middling teams in awful positions than us.

I mean, the Kings tried defending their excuses for why they didn't draft Doncic over Bagley. Claiming that having two dominant ball handlers wouldn't work... Could you imagine if Ainge refused to draft Doncic, because we had Isaiah Thomas?  :angel:

I would say OKC is also impressive given the fact they managed to not only lose not one, not two, but three MVP's all within the same decade. That's actually more impressive to me than anything..
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2020, 07:22:31 PM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10769
  • Tommy Points: 1359
Maybe other people hear this talked about more, but I had completely forgotten what the Magic gave up for Sergie Ibaka, both Sabonis and Oladipo. Given that Sabonis is now an all-star alongside Oladipo, where does this rank on the trades of the last 10 years for awfulness. Ibaka played 56 games for Magic and averaged 15 points and 8 rebounds before being flipped for Terrance Ross and a late first. Is this arguably worse than the Harden Trade? It is hard to track the full results of this but the Thunder got Lamb and two first round picks as part of their harden deal. Not sure if those turned into anything substantial.

One of the first round picks for the Harden deal turned into Steven Adams. Also K-Mart was included in that OKC deal, which is one of the reasons why Presti was content. He believed K-Mart could replicated Harden's numbers, despite the over-creasing fact that K-Mart wasn't substantially that great enough of a scorer to justify his weak defensive capabilities.

The totality of the trade included Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 1st, (Mitch McGary + Adams) and 2nd late rounder.

I would wager that the Harden trade was subsequently worse than Ibaka, given the fact Harden has been MVP, 8x Allstar, and All-NBA when he left.

But you can also argue the fact ORL tanked relatively for the past few years, with almost virtually nothing to show for it other than Isaac, Fultz, AG, and Vuvecic. (Their infatuation with making Aaron Gordon the small forward befuddles me.)

Both trades were colossally horrendous, they were also both criticized heavily when they first emerged from reports. A lot of people predicted Ibaka wouldn't be able to lead any team as the 3rd/2nd option, let alone make up for the trade haul sent over to bring him in. The Magic literally tanked for Oladipo + Sabonis, (they didn't purposely, but they blew enough to end up in those draft slots,) essentially and just gave up on those two players so quickly for Ibaka...

Serge freakin' Ibaka.

This is a player who many questioned the validity of his official birth date. He had fallen from averaging 2.7-3.7 BPG to literally 1.6 within the next 3-4 years. His numbers clearly told a story his game wasn't going to age well.

Honestly, Magic, Kings, Hawks, Suns, and the Hornets remind me time and time again how blessed we are to have Danny Ainge. Every time someone complains or criticizes Ainge, I always remind them there are far worse franchises + middling teams in awful positions than us.

I mean, the Kings tried defending their excuses for why they didn't draft Doncic over Bagley. Claiming that having two dominant ball handlers wouldn't work... Could you imagine if Ainge refused to draft Doncic, because we had Isaiah Thomas?  :angel:

I would say OKC is also impressive given the fact they managed to not only lose not one, not two, but three MVP's all within the same decade. That's actually more impressive to me than anything..

Love Danny too, MH, but didn't he blow it by not trading Terry Rozier for Ibaka? I think that was the price, and he refused to give up Rozier.  Man, we could sure have used Ibaka the last couple of years!

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2020, 08:04:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23072
  • Tommy Points: 1095
It was bad, but they did get Ross and a 1st when they realized he wasn't working out like they thought.
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2020, 08:58:28 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11443
  • Tommy Points: 1215
It was bad, but they did get Ross and a 1st when they realized he wasn't working out like they thought.

Really great point
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 09:06:03 PM by celticsclay »

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2020, 10:13:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23072
  • Tommy Points: 1095
It was bad, but they did get Ross and a 1st when they realized he wasn't working out like they thought.

Really great point
not anywhere what they gave up but they at least had the sense to get something before he walked in free agency.
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 12:07:46 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2063
  • Tommy Points: 207
  • "Smile for the camera, Shareef!"
To be fair, Sabonis was drafted to be dealt so it really was more like Oladipo and a draft pick for Ibaka. They still messed up because Ibaka was nowhere near worth it, but it wasn't like Orlando had Sabonis on their actual team and then dealt him.

The Thunder did get Paul George so I don't think they'll ever regret the deal. George was only 27 and a much better fit next to Westbrook. Sabonis was still really young and not going to help them at the time.

Finally, Oladipo admitted that he underachieved in Orlando and OKC. During the offseason before his Pacers debut he got serious about working hard and changed his diet. That's the main reason for his incredible leap in production. Whether it's fair to "blame" Orlando or OKC for not anticipating that might happen is probably a fun debate.
Yo pretty boy. I looked up basketball player in the dictionary and it said 'Not you!'

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 08:13:48 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30743
  • Tommy Points: 1309
It was really bad because the Magic weren't even close to being a good team yet and traded for an upcoming free agent who'd already peaked.

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 08:33:30 AM »

Online jambr380

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9818
  • Tommy Points: 1208
  • Ignoring mortality we worship mediocrity
To be fair, Sabonis was drafted to be dealt so it really was more like Oladipo and a draft pick for Ibaka. They still messed up because Ibaka was nowhere near worth it, but it wasn't like Orlando had Sabonis on their actual team and then dealt him.

The Thunder did get Paul George so I don't think they'll ever regret the deal. George was only 27 and a much better fit next to Westbrook. Sabonis was still really young and not going to help them at the time.

Finally, Oladipo admitted that he underachieved in Orlando and OKC. During the offseason before his Pacers debut he got serious about working hard and changed his diet. That's the main reason for his incredible leap in production. Whether it's fair to "blame" Orlando or OKC for not anticipating that might happen is probably a fun debate.

It's fair to say that OKC was just fine with the deal, considering what they received for Paul George from the Clips: SGA, Gallinari, 5 1sts (4 unprotected), and 2 pick swaps. Of all the huge trade returns on stars this past off-season, that has to be the 'hugest'...maybe ever - since SGA is looking like a future (super)star. I like Sabonis and he's been a nice surprise, but imagine this will be his one and only All-Star appearance. Teams are likely not pounding down Indy's door trying to land him in a trade.

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 02:40:48 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25795
  • Tommy Points: 1197
  • What a Pub Should Be
I remember when some people around here wanted to trade Jaylen for Ibaka.

The thought that somehow Ibaka was the missing piece on the '16-'17 squad.

That would've been disastrous.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2020, 02:16:43 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6033
  • Tommy Points: 649
The Magic are a good reminder for those fans who seem to always think tanking is the smart play. When they traded Dwight, there were a fair number of people who said they won the trade for all the assets they acquired. 8 years later and they've won more than 35 games once and won a single playoff game. This year they're clawing for the 8th seed, on pace for 36 wins with a precarious path forward.

Yes, stuff like the Ibaka trade supports the idea that this is mismanagement of the tanking assets and that's true. But I also think it's true that so much of this stuff is out of the control of owners and managers. Getting good assets is not, alone, a winning formula.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 02:31:32 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6521
  • Tommy Points: 761
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
It was really bad because the Magic weren't even close to being a good team yet and traded for an upcoming free agent who'd already peaked.

That's basically the gist of it.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 06:23:42 PM »

Offline footey

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10769
  • Tommy Points: 1359
I remember when some people around here wanted to trade Jaylen for Ibaka.

The thought that somehow Ibaka was the missing piece on the '16-'17 squad.

That would've been disastrous.

Weren’t the reports that Orlando wanted Rozier and Danny wouldn’t give him up??

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/report-celtics-passed-giving-rozier-potential-ibaka-deal%3Famp

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2020, 06:38:35 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6935
  • Tommy Points: 531
I remember when some people around here wanted to trade Jaylen for Ibaka.

The thought that somehow Ibaka was the missing piece on the '16-'17 squad.

That would've been disastrous.

Weren’t the reports that Orlando wanted Rozier and Danny wouldn’t give him up??

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/report-celtics-passed-giving-rozier-potential-ibaka-deal%3Famp
Ibaka would have cost us more and we would have harder time signing Kemba with him eating more space in the cap.

Re: How bad was the magic trade for Ibaka
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2020, 06:47:55 PM »

Online Surferdad

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11179
  • Tommy Points: 759
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
To be fair, Sabonis was drafted to be dealt so it really was more like Oladipo and a draft pick for Ibaka. They still messed up because Ibaka was nowhere near worth it, but it wasn't like Orlando had Sabonis on their actual team and then dealt him.

The Thunder did get Paul George so I don't think they'll ever regret the deal. George was only 27 and a much better fit next to Westbrook. Sabonis was still really young and not going to help them at the time.

Finally, Oladipo admitted that he underachieved in Orlando and OKC. During the offseason before his Pacers debut he got serious about working hard and changed his diet. That's the main reason for his incredible leap in production. Whether it's fair to "blame" Orlando or OKC for not anticipating that might happen is probably a fun debate.

It's fair to say that OKC was just fine with the deal, considering what they received for Paul George from the Clips: SGA, Gallinari, 5 1sts (4 unprotected), and 2 pick swaps. Of all the huge trade returns on stars this past off-season, that has to be the 'hugest'...maybe ever - since SGA is looking like a future (super)star. I like Sabonis and he's been a nice surprise, but imagine this will be his one and only All-Star appearance. Teams are likely not pounding down Indy's door trying to land him in a trade.
Yeah in retrospect that was quite a haul, as you say mainly due to SGA looking like the real deal, but also Gallinari still being productive at 31.