Author Topic: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board  (Read 11803 times)

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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2020, 10:16:25 PM »

Online CFAN38

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Xavier Tillman, Udoka Azubuike, Makur Maker... Trade or Drop any three of (Poirier, Green, Edwards, Ojeleye)...plus the 2nd round pick for future assets..

Where does Maker show up in mock drafts? I doubt he's around late first.

I have seen reports that he only stays in the draft if he gets a lottery promise. This seems like a total long shot. I suspect if he stays in the draft he goes in the 35-45 range.
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2020, 08:00:44 AM »

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June Board,

not much has changed added a couple of guys in the lower tiers and tweaked a few rankings based on things I have read or watched.


10 Franchise Star
9 Perennial All-star
8 All-Star
7 High End starter
6 6th man/ starter
5 playoff level rotation player (can be the 7th/8th man on a great team)
4 rotation player (9th/10 on a great team 7th/8th on a decent team)
3 bottom on rotation player
2 out of the rotation
1 out of the nba


After tiers 1 and 2 I took into consideration how I think the Celtics would value this players based on their roster construction.

]Player   POS   Ceiling   Floor   Length +/-
            
TIER 1            
LaMelo Ball   G   8.5   5   3
            
TIER 2   
         
Anthony Edwards   W   8.5   3   4
            
TIER 3            
Killian Hayes           G   7   4   2
Onyeka Okongwu   B   7   5   8
James Wiseman   B   8   3   5
Deni Avdija         SW   6.5   4   1.5
Isaac Okoro          W   7.5   3   3
            
TIER 4            
RJ Hampton          G   7   3   3
Tyrese Maxey          G   7   3   3.5
Cole Anthony           G   7   3   0.5
Tyrese Haliburton   G   6   4   7
Devin Vassell          W   6   4   3
            
TIER 5            
Aaron Nesmith         W   6   4   4
Tyrell Terry         G   6.5   3   3
Patrick Williams    SW   6.5   3   3
Obi Toppin         B   6.5   3   5
Leandro Bolmaro   W   6.5   3   1
Theo Maledon          G   6.5   3   4
Xavier Tillman          B   6   5   4
Kira Lewis          G   6.5   2   4
Josh Green          W   6   4   4
Saddig Bey         SW   5   4   3
            
TIER 6            
Precious Achiuwa   B   6.5   2   5
Jaden McDaniels   SW   7.5   2   1
Aleksej Pokusevski   B   7   1   3
            
TIER 7            
Nico Mannion          G   6   3   -0.5
Jalen Smith          B   6   2   3.5
Zeke Nnaji          B   6   2   2
Isiah Stewart          B   6   2   4
Tyler Bey                 SW   5   3   5
Desmond Bane   W   5   3   -2
Udoka Azybuike   B   6   3   6
            
TIER 8            
Paul Reed            B   6   1   5
Immanuel Quickley   G   5   2   6
Ty-Shon Alexander   G   5   3   5
Killian Tillie          SW   5   3   1
Malachi Flynn            G   5   3   1
Grant Riller            G   5   2   
Robert Woodard   SW   5   3   5
Vern Carey Jr           B   5   3   2
            
TIER 9            
Jahmi'us Ramsey   W   6   1   6
Payton Prichard   G   5   4   2
Marko Simonovic'   B   5   3   1
Tre Jones                   G   5   3   2
Cassius Winston   G   5   3   3
Cassius Stanley   W   5   3   2
Elijah Hughes           W   5   3   3
Skylar Mays           G   5   2   3
Christian Vital            G   5   2   5
Paul Eboua          SW   6   1   6
            
TIER 10            
Kaleb Wesson   B   5   2   3
Nate Hinton   W   5   1   4
Reggie Perry   B   5.5   1   3
Daniel Oturu   B   5   1   5
Devon Dotson   G   5   2   1
Jordan Nwora   SW   5   1   4
            
TIER 11            
Marcus Howard   G   4   1   1
Nick Richards           B   5   1   4
            
            
            
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 08:13:16 AM by CFAN38 »
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2020, 09:23:28 AM »

Online CFAN38

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June Board,

not much has changed added a couple of guys in the lower tiers and tweaked a few rankings based on things I have read or watched.


10 Franchise Star
9 Perennial All-star
8 All-Star
7 High End starter
6 6th man/ starter
5 playoff level rotation player (can be the 7th/8th man on a great team)
4 rotation player (9th/10 on a great team 7th/8th on a decent team)
3 bottom on rotation player
2 out of the rotation
1 out of the nba


After tiers 1 and 2 I took into consideration how I think the Celtics would value this players based on their roster construction.

]Player   POS   Ceiling   Floor   Length +/-
            
TIER 1            
LaMelo Ball   G   8.5   5   3
            
TIER 2   
         
Anthony Edwards   W   8.5   3   4
            
TIER 3            
Killian Hayes           G   7   4   2
Onyeka Okongwu   B   7   5   8
James Wiseman   B   8   3   5
Deni Avdija         SW   6.5   4   1.5
Isaac Okoro          W   7.5   3   3
            
TIER 4            
RJ Hampton          G   7   3   3
Tyrese Maxey          G   7   3   3.5
Cole Anthony           G   7   3   0.5
Tyrese Haliburton   G   6   4   7
Devin Vassell          W   6   4   3
            
TIER 5            
Aaron Nesmith         W   6   4   4
Tyrell Terry         G   6.5   3   3
Patrick Williams    SW   6.5   3   3
Obi Toppin         B   6.5   3   5
Leandro Bolmaro   W   6.5   3   1
Theo Maledon          G   6.5   3   4
Xavier Tillman          B   6   5   4
Kira Lewis          G   6.5   2   4
Josh Green          W   6   4   4
Saddig Bey         SW   5   4   3
            
TIER 6            
Precious Achiuwa   B   6.5   2   5
Jaden McDaniels   SW   7.5   2   1
Aleksej Pokusevski   B   7   1   3
            
TIER 7            
Nico Mannion          G   6   3   -0.5
Jalen Smith          B   6   2   3.5
Zeke Nnaji          B   6   2   2
Isiah Stewart          B   6   2   4
Tyler Bey                 SW   5   3   5
Desmond Bane   W   5   3   -2
Udoka Azybuike   B   6   3   6
            
TIER 8            
Paul Reed            B   6   1   5
Immanuel Quickley   G   5   2   6
Ty-Shon Alexander   G   5   3   5
Killian Tillie          SW   5   3   1
Malachi Flynn            G   5   3   1
Grant Riller            G   5   2   
Robert Woodard   SW   5   3   5
Vern Carey Jr           B   5   3   2
            
TIER 9            
Jahmi'us Ramsey   W   6   1   6
Payton Prichard   G   5   4   2
Marko Simonovic'   B   5   3   1
Tre Jones                   G   5   3   2
Cassius Winston   G   5   3   3
Cassius Stanley   W   5   3   2
Elijah Hughes           W   5   3   3
Skylar Mays           G   5   2   3
Christian Vital            G   5   2   5
Paul Eboua          SW   6   1   6
            
TIER 10            
Kaleb Wesson   B   5   2   3
Nate Hinton   W   5   1   4
Reggie Perry   B   5.5   1   3
Daniel Oturu   B   5   1   5
Devon Dotson   G   5   2   1
Jordan Nwora   SW   5   1   4
            
TIER 11            
Marcus Howard   G   4   1   1
Nick Richards           B   5   1   4

A few notes/thoughts on some of my favorite players for the Cs in tiers 3-8

3

Okongwu
would be the Cs long term answer at Center, he lacks the size to ever be an elite defensive anchor but his mobility and well rounded game gives skill set that fits perfect on the Cs.

Okoro would be 100% a DA pick. DA loved Winslow in the draft and he and Okoro are very similar. In terms of defense and creation his ceiling could be that of a wing version of Smart. Shooting is his major swing skill

4

Maxey
he is the classic wing in a guards body but I'm confident the Cs would get him back on track as a shooter. If he becomes the + shooter that he was projected coming out of highschool. Shooting coupled with his ability to get to the paint would make him a really nice fit long term next to Tatum.

5

P Williams
he is one if not the youngest player in the draft. At 6'8 with a strong frame and 6'11 wingspan he has great physical tools. He may struggle laterally if played as a traditional wing. On the Celtics he would be a great fit playing G Williams role defending big wing/swings and some spot minutes as a small ball 5. On offense he is an explosive finisher who shows real potential as a shooter. He has a legit shot at being a top 5 player in this class.

Tillman his ceiling may not be the same as others in this tier but Tillman is an NBA rotational big already. His strength, passing, high IQ and leadership will make him a foundational piece for what ever team lands him. If he develops his mid range and eventually a 3pt shot he could be a really good NBA starter. Without the shot he is still a solid rotational big on a good team.

6

Achiuwa
he is an absolute elite athlete and at a point in this draft that can not be discounted. His skill set is in need of refinement and as a 20yr old freshman that can scary to project. Any hopes of Precious playing on the perimeter should be dashed in his time at Memphis he proved that he is best suited playing in the paint and using his athleticism to punish traditional bigs in the open court. Ultimately I see him as a Faried type energy 5 who excels in the open court. On the right team (and I think the Cs are the right team) he could be a very productive player who can dominate the glass, provide solid rim protection, switch every screen, and create mismatches with his speed in the open court.

McDaniels probability points to him being a bust however his higher outcome is a really intriguing fit for the Cs roster in the future. He needs to get stronger and really develop as an all around player but in theory having a wing along side Tatum and Brown who can protect the rim, hit open 3s, and breakdown miss-matches off the dribble is a near perfect fit.

7

Nnaji
not sold on him as a starting center but as a rotational big he moves really well, is a solid rebounder and has high end potential  as an outside shooter. He is also a kid who gives great interviews and seems really intelligent.

Azubuike in todays NBA he isn't a logical fit but in a limited minute role he could be a dominate force in the paint. In Mcgee can carve out sub 20mpg starting roles on contenders in the NBA then I am confident Azubuike can at least come off the bench and protect the rim, rebound, and dunk at an absurdly high FG%. 

8

Quikley
as a higher end recruit who shot the lights out for UK I am willing to bet on him cracking a teams rotation in a few years. He has good size and length for a PG but has not shown much as an initiator at UK. This maybe because of Kentucky's roster construction. For a guy going in the 2nd round I would be willing to gamble on letting him develop in the G-League with the hope being that he develops into a valuable floor spacing PG/small combo guard with an elite 3pt shot.     
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2020, 09:55:28 AM »

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Obi Toppin should be a few tiers higher. There's a legit argument he's the best offensive player in this draft. He's older, but also more polished and has an obviously transferable skill set due to his athleticism and shooting ability. The only questions with him seem to center around who he will defend at the NBA level.

I won't be the least bit surprised if he ends up drafted in the top 3.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2020, 10:20:43 AM »

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Obi Toppin should be a few tiers higher. There's a legit argument he's the best offensive player in this draft. He's older, but also more polished and has an obviously transferable skill set due to his athleticism and shooting ability. The only questions with him seem to center around who he will defend at the NBA level.

I won't be the least bit surprised if he ends up drafted in the top 3.

Obi, will most likely go top 10 and possibly top 5. I agree his offense is elite and if drafted into the right role he has a good shot at averaging 15+ppg 7+rb as a rookie and will be a front runner to be the ROY. If 4 years from now he is putting up 20pt 10rb on an end of the lottery team I will not be surprised at all.

My issue with him is defensively he is so limited that I can't see a way that he plays a prominent role of a championship caliber team. He isn't big, strong or ling enough to defend the post. Doesn't have the lateral quickness to play the perimeter and is not good defending P&R. In a playoff series a competent coach will put him in P&R every possession and let their star player eat him alive. John Collins and Rui Hachimura are two players who have similar limitations. They are good/really good NBA players but their skill sets are not conducive to winning in the modern NBA.
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2020, 10:25:44 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 10:33:03 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2020, 11:21:52 AM »

Online CFAN38

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2020, 11:39:47 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     

I think Jaylen Brown was an underrated shot creator for others in college. He was just as good as Okoro. Brown averaged same amount of assists in fewer minutes and a more closed down system and much slower system. He even had a 7 assist game against Arizona and two 5 assist games. Brown was also a better shooter and rebounder in college.

I don't think Okoro is a bad prospect. There are some tools there. I just think he is overrated and that we haven't seen enough in the box scores or on the court to indicate he could be a top 3 player in this draft. 

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2020, 11:58:12 AM »

Online CFAN38

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     

I think Jaylen Brown was an underrated shot creator for others in college. He was just as good as Okoro. Brown averaged same amount of assists in fewer minutes and a more closed down system and much slower system. He even had a 7 assist game against Arizona and two 5 assist games. Brown was also a better shooter and rebounder in college.

I don't think Okoro is a bad prospect. There are some tools there. I just think he is overrated and that we haven't seen enough in the box scores or on the court to indicate he could be a top 3 player in this draft.

I would counter that Jaylen had double the turn overs and was a much higher usage player then Okoro.

Bottom line is this draft is so lacking in typical top end talent that a player like Okoro who would be a great pick in the 10-14 range has a shot of going top 5. The danger with that is good prospects like Okongwu, Haliburton, Okoro and Avidja who should be solid starters in the NBA will be drafted higher then normal and will be burdened with unrealistic expectations. I can hear the NYK media already complaining that one of those guys are only averaging 10ppg and are a bust cause they where drafted 6th in the draft.
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2020, 05:53:33 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     

I think Jaylen Brown was an underrated shot creator for others in college. He was just as good as Okoro. Brown averaged same amount of assists in fewer minutes and a more closed down system and much slower system. He even had a 7 assist game against Arizona and two 5 assist games. Brown was also a better shooter and rebounder in college.

I don't think Okoro is a bad prospect. There are some tools there. I just think he is overrated and that we haven't seen enough in the box scores or on the court to indicate he could be a top 3 player in this draft.

I would counter that Jaylen had double the turn overs and was a much higher usage player then Okoro.

Bottom line is this draft is so lacking in typical top end talent that a player like Okoro who would be a great pick in the 10-14 range has a shot of going top 5. The danger with that is good prospects like Okongwu, Haliburton, Okoro and Avidja who should be solid starters in the NBA will be drafted higher then normal and will be burdened with unrealistic expectations. I can hear the NYK media already complaining that one of those guys are only averaging 10ppg and are a bust cause they where drafted 6th in the draft.

I actually think the stats you mentioned go in Jaylen's favor. That team relied on his playmaking to score in a slow, grinding, half-court pace, and Brown did ok. A player like Okoro played in an open, more uptempo pace as a 2nd/3rd/4th shot creator. Opposing teams didn't key in on him. Most of his assists came off of swinging the basketball or attacking a closeout and kicking it out. Those are NBA skills to be sure for a wing role player, but I think we're looking at a much different player than Brown.

It's really hard to tell because there are so many variables. You may be right. Just expressing a dissenting view.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2020, 08:57:16 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     

I think Jaylen Brown was an underrated shot creator for others in college. He was just as good as Okoro. Brown averaged same amount of assists in fewer minutes and a more closed down system and much slower system. He even had a 7 assist game against Arizona and two 5 assist games. Brown was also a better shooter and rebounder in college.

I don't think Okoro is a bad prospect. There are some tools there. I just think he is overrated and that we haven't seen enough in the box scores or on the court to indicate he could be a top 3 player in this draft.

I would counter that Jaylen had double the turn overs and was a much higher usage player then Okoro.

Bottom line is this draft is so lacking in typical top end talent that a player like Okoro who would be a great pick in the 10-14 range has a shot of going top 5. The danger with that is good prospects like Okongwu, Haliburton, Okoro and Avidja who should be solid starters in the NBA will be drafted higher then normal and will be burdened with unrealistic expectations. I can hear the NYK media already complaining that one of those guys are only averaging 10ppg and are a bust cause they where drafted 6th in the draft.
it'd happen pretty much anywhere.  There were a few posters here who continually griped about Smart's production being insufficient for a #6 pick

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2020, 06:40:36 AM »

Online CFAN38

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I'm not sure why Okoro gets compared to Justice Winslow. I guess they have a similar body type, but Winslow at Duke was a shot creator. Coach K compared him to Wade (obviously an overstatement, but still). A lot of people felt that he was going to be special.

Okoro doesn't bring any of that shot creation from the college level. He might have some that he didn't get to use, but in the opportunities he did show, he looked rigid, predictable, and uncreative.

He might develop some of that with good coaching (Leonard was uncreative in college too), but its not there currently. The raw abilities aren't there. A team drafting him will primarily be looking at a corner three point shooter, a guy who can swing the ball, and a defender that doesn't kill you.

On top of that, his shot is still a question mark. If he can't create and he can't shoot reliably, he better be a lock-down defender. He's not a bad prospect. It's just that everything we've seen indicates that his ceiling is relatively low.

Is Kent Bazemore a positive realistic outcome? That's the kind of player I see. I'd rather take my chance with anyone in your tiers 1-4 and about half your tier 5. That, to me, indicates that he is rated too highly. But admittedly, we can have different opinions on players--so much is based around our eye test and preconceived notions.

For a freshman power wing Okoro showed promise as an initiator, he may not have much shake to his game to create for himself but he shows some promise creating for others including a 7 assist game vs SC. He also finished nearly 68% of his attempts in the paint so while he may lack creation once in the paint he should be a good finisher.

I see a lot of parallels in Okoro and Jaylen brown as prospects. Brown is a little taller, longer and more explosive while Okoro is a better passer and coming out of college a better defender.

Ultimately I can see an outcome where Okoro is a lesser version of Andre Iquodala and one of the best players in this class.     

I think Jaylen Brown was an underrated shot creator for others in college. He was just as good as Okoro. Brown averaged same amount of assists in fewer minutes and a more closed down system and much slower system. He even had a 7 assist game against Arizona and two 5 assist games. Brown was also a better shooter and rebounder in college.

I don't think Okoro is a bad prospect. There are some tools there. I just think he is overrated and that we haven't seen enough in the box scores or on the court to indicate he could be a top 3 player in this draft.

I would counter that Jaylen had double the turn overs and was a much higher usage player then Okoro.

Bottom line is this draft is so lacking in typical top end talent that a player like Okoro who would be a great pick in the 10-14 range has a shot of going top 5. The danger with that is good prospects like Okongwu, Haliburton, Okoro and Avidja who should be solid starters in the NBA will be drafted higher then normal and will be burdened with unrealistic expectations. I can hear the NYK media already complaining that one of those guys are only averaging 10ppg and are a bust cause they where drafted 6th in the draft.
it'd happen pretty much anywhere.  There were a few posters here who continually griped about Smart's production being insufficient for a #6 pick

That is true but I live in western mass and have a decent amount of exposure to NY radio. Knicks fans and the ESPN radio host are painful to listen too.
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2020, 01:14:37 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Players that stand out to me, and we could possibly draft them with the MEM pick are as follows:
Devin Vassel - Super elite defender, active hands, able to finish with both hands, and is a great shooter/scorer. I think if you give him more shots, he's going to hit them at a high clip. 6'7 with 6'10 wing span? Sign me up.

Desmond Bane- Has a nice shooting form, seems like he's able to take contact, and relishes on playing smart. He reminds me of like a hybrid Eric Gordon and Louis Williams. His handles are pretty decent, and while he's 23, he seems very mature in his offensive skillset. I think he can be the type of guy who can plug in any offense and be a microwave.

Kira Lewis Jr. - I don't know if we can draft him with our pick, but he seems very very intriguing. Offensive spark plug, electric first step, and ambidextrous. He also knows how to make those nifty pocket passes in the PnR. He's lighting quick, and he just seems like he can get buckets at any second. Excellent body control and able to change the trajectory of the shot with either hands when finishing.

Patrick Williams - Just like Kira, I think he'll be gone before our pick. This guy is an absolute unit, and he's my binkie in the draft. But if he falls, I think he could be an absolute sleeper pick. He can do everything, Jack of All trades kind of player. Pass, handle, stretch the floor, and he's the youngest player along with his solid rim protection and his length allows him to play well at offsetting weak side help defense. I think he has the potential to be a great player, and his body is pretty well built for someone who's only 18. His versatility shows me he has immense potential and promise. And he just seems like the kind of guy who will put himself out on the floor to win.

Paul Reed - Seems like the type of guy, in the Leon Powe mold. Altheticism? Check. Wingspan over 7 feet? Check. Towering and abrasive demeanor on defense? Check. Still has offensive promise? Check. Love this guy, he seems like the Stevens type of pick. Unfortunately his offensive skills right now needs plenty of reps and work, but with the Celtics, I think we can improve upon those areas.

___

I've heard a lot about Aaron Nesmith. He seems like the type of guy who can come off any pin down screens, and make excellent cuts through double screens to get his shot off. Looks like all he needs is like half an inch of space before he releases it. Excellent shooting form, textbook beautiful, nice height and length at 6'7 with 6'10 wingspan. Strong/solid frame, not the best athlete vertically or laterally but... He uses his size/strength pretty well, and is able to force the defense to pay attention to him at all times. His ability to move off ball will be something GM's will be salivating about. Reminds me of Klay Thompson or Kevin Huerter without the excellent team defense. I think he can put the effort on that side, but he plays smart enough on team defense without being overtly aggressive.  I suspect he will also be gone before our pick.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 01:20:03 AM by Monkhouse »
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2020, 08:51:57 AM »

Online CFAN38

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Players that stand out to me, and we could possibly draft them with the MEM pick are as follows:
Devin Vassel - Super elite defender, active hands, able to finish with both hands, and is a great shooter/scorer. I think if you give him more shots, he's going to hit them at a high clip. 6'7 with 6'10 wing span? Sign me up.

Desmond Bane- Has a nice shooting form, seems like he's able to take contact, and relishes on playing smart. He reminds me of like a hybrid Eric Gordon and Louis Williams. His handles are pretty decent, and while he's 23, he seems very mature in his offensive skillset. I think he can be the type of guy who can plug in any offense and be a microwave.

Kira Lewis Jr. - I don't know if we can draft him with our pick, but he seems very very intriguing. Offensive spark plug, electric first step, and ambidextrous. He also knows how to make those nifty pocket passes in the PnR. He's lighting quick, and he just seems like he can get buckets at any second. Excellent body control and able to change the trajectory of the shot with either hands when finishing.

Patrick Williams - Just like Kira, I think he'll be gone before our pick. This guy is an absolute unit, and he's my binkie in the draft. But if he falls, I think he could be an absolute sleeper pick. He can do everything, Jack of All trades kind of player. Pass, handle, stretch the floor, and he's the youngest player along with his solid rim protection and his length allows him to play well at offsetting weak side help defense. I think he has the potential to be a great player, and his body is pretty well built for someone who's only 18. His versatility shows me he has immense potential and promise. And he just seems like the kind of guy who will put himself out on the floor to win.

Paul Reed - Seems like the type of guy, in the Leon Powe mold. Altheticism? Check. Wingspan over 7 feet? Check. Towering and abrasive demeanor on defense? Check. Still has offensive promise? Check. Love this guy, he seems like the Stevens type of pick. Unfortunately his offensive skills right now needs plenty of reps and work, but with the Celtics, I think we can improve upon those areas.

___

I've heard a lot about Aaron Nesmith. He seems like the type of guy who can come off any pin down screens, and make excellent cuts through double screens to get his shot off. Looks like all he needs is like half an inch of space before he releases it. Excellent shooting form, textbook beautiful, nice height and length at 6'7 with 6'10 wingspan. Strong/solid frame, not the best athlete vertically or laterally but... He uses his size/strength pretty well, and is able to force the defense to pay attention to him at all times. His ability to move off ball will be something GM's will be salivating about. Reminds me of Klay Thompson or Kevin Huerter without the excellent team defense. I think he can put the effort on that side, but he plays smart enough on team defense without being overtly aggressive.  I suspect he will also be gone before our pick.

If Memphis falls into the lottery P Williams might be available but I would be really surprised baring a medical issue to see him outside the top 14. Vassell I suspect will go top 10/12 he has to much positional value and is to easy to fit onto a roster for teams to pass on him.

Lewis Jr has been discussed a lot on here but my bottom line with him is that I don't trust his ceiling is as a starting NBA PG. Might be better suited as a high level backup and drafting a likely backup PG in the top 25 picks seems like a waste.

Reed in theory is a great pick but I have concerns that his "highly versatile defense" will prove to be a trap. If Reed isn't strong enough to play Center ( I don't think he is) then he becomes a full time wing defender with a big man offensive skill set. The hope for the team drafting him is that he can be developed into a Covington style big 3-D wing. I'm not saying it wont happen but that will take major improvement in his shooting. As a late 1st I can understand the intrigue on the pick but not with the Memphis pick.

Bane, I really like and think he will be a solid 8th-9th man in the NBA. His lack of length really hurts his versatility on D as it will limit him to guarding smaller wings but everything else about his game screams solid NBA role player. He is a guy I would target late 1st or early 2nd.

Nesmith scares me as a defender. I really prefer a more versatile defender on the wing and do not think he is a great fit for the Cs. In resent years the Cs have had good luck taking good over all players/athletes and developing them into capable NBA shooters. Based on this player development pattern I would rather see the Cs take a wing who has a questionable shot but have a higher end athletic profile and more well rounded game. (just like they did last year with Langford)   
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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2020, 09:42:51 AM »

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Dick Vitale is reporting that Xavier Tillman is staying at MSU and not entering the draft. This is really surprising to me as he was a guy who I have long thought would be perfect on the Celtics.
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