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Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2020, 09:04:28 AM »

Online gouki88

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I still say you take a shot at Vernon Carey if he's still available. I predict he might be one of the bigger droppers of draft night.

So basically more athletic Kanter?

Nah I'm good.
A more athletic Kanter with better handles, and the potential to develop an outside shot? I'll take that.
Carey doesn't have quite the knack for offensive rebounds Kanter does - he is much more reliant on bullying people out of the way to get his offensive boards. He's also a lot worse at free throw shooting than Kanter.

That being said, if he can keep the weight off and learn to defend the perimeter a bit better, he'll have a place in the league
LA Clippers:
PG: Stephen Curry / Deron Williams / Penny Hardaway
SG: Michael Redd / Doug Christie / Leandro Barbosa
SF: Grant Hill / Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Elton Brand / Lamar Odom / Josh Smith
C: Joakim Noah / Andrew Bynum / David Lee

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2020, 09:27:21 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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My April tiered big board with the free time to watch games, highlights and read more scouting my board has change alot. Like before tiers are not "Chad Ford" style but rather just groups of players I would take not mater the fit before drafting from the lower tier.


Tier 1
LaMelo Ball   G
Anthony Edwards   W

Tier 2
Killian Hayes   G
Deni Avdija   SW
Onyeka Okongwu   B
James Wiseman   B

Tier 3   
Isaac Okoro   W
Devin Vassell   W
RJ Hampton   G
Cole Anthony   G
Tyrese Maxey   G
Tyrese Haliburton   G

Tier 4   

Obi Toppin   B
Precious Achiuwa   B
Saddig Bey   SW
Xavier Tillman   B
Leandro Bolmaro   W
   
Tier 5
Jaden McDaniels   SW
Theo Maledon   G
Patrick Williams   SW
Nico Mannion   G
Aaron Nesmith   W
Isiah Stewart   B
Kira Lewis   G
Jalen Smith   B

Tier 6   
Tyler Bey   SW
Josh Green   W
Aleksej Pokusevski   B
Carlos Alocen   G
Tyrell Terry   G
Desmond Bane   W
Jahmi'us Ramsey   W
Immanuel Quickley   G
Killian Tillie   SW
   
Tier 7
Tre Jones   G
Payton Prichard   G
Cassius Stanley   W
Paul Reed   B
   
Tier 8
Matthew Hurt   SW
Daniel Oturu   B
Zeke Nnaji   B
Vern Carey Jr   B
Reggie Perry   B
Grant Riller   G
Cassius Winston   G
Devon Dotson   G
   
Tier 9
Marcus Howard   G
Nick Richards   B
Elijah Hughes   W
Udoka Azybuike   B
Jordan Nwora   W


To highlight a few players

Bolmaro,  is a new addition to my board and I have in tier 4. He is a 19 year old 6'7-6'8 wing with a wingspan that matches his height (roughly same measurements as Hayward. He is interesting because as a young player he was praised as a future elite shooting prospect and while his shot isnt bad his really calling card now seems to be his ball handling. He really seems to play well in the P&R and is crafty using Euro steps in the paint. On defense despite not being an overly strong or explosive athlete he moves his feet really well. With added strength/weight he should be at least an average NBA wing defender. It may seem like a reach but if he is willing to draft and stash I would be comfortable to see the Cs take him at #17. 

Bane, he is a 21 year old elite shooting 6'6" wing who tested the draft process last year I currently have him in my 6th tier. His - wingspan (6'4") is a negative towards his defensive potential but his shooting especially on the move is elite and will earn his minutes in the NBA.

Terry, he is a 19 year old PG from Stanford who is only listed at 6'1 160lbs and really needs to get stronger to be playable in the NBA. However he is a lights out shooter who shoot off the dribble, on the move, or spot up off the ball. I envision him player a Seth Curry like role defending PGs but playing off the ball and opening up the court with the gravity of his shot. Given his youth and under developed physic its not out of the question that he develops into more then just a role player. I currently have him as a project in the 6th tier.


Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2020, 09:33:43 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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My April tiered big board with the free time to watch games, highlights and read more scouting my board has change alot. Like before tiers are not "Chad Ford" style but rather just groups of players I would take not mater the fit before drafting from the lower tier.

In your mind, what is the upside of a Tier 1 player in this draft? Tier 2? Tier 3? Etc.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2020, 09:39:07 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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got to admit there's no players in this draft that I see as "sure things" to be at least top-quality starters.  looks like a few average starters with a lot of role players in this draft. 

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2020, 10:11:16 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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My April tiered big board with the free time to watch games, highlights and read more scouting my board has change alot. Like before tiers are not "Chad Ford" style but rather just groups of players I would take not mater the fit before drafting from the lower tier.

In your mind, what is the upside of a Tier 1 player in this draft? Tier 2? Tier 3? Etc.

Its tough because if I was going to brake my tiers up into predicted outcomes it would be

A. Franchise level talent/super star
B. Allstar
C. Fringe All Star
D. High end Starter
E. Starter (top bench player (6th man) on great team)
F. Playoff level role play (top 3 guy off bench)
G. passable role player
H. Bottom of bench
I. Non NBA player

The problem with that grading system is how do you balance the low floor high ceiling players? McDaniels could be the best player in this class if he keeps his current athletic ability and get up to 225+ lbs but could also spend years in the G-league or over seas. (see Anthony Randolph/Austin Daye). This is why I keep my tiers as groups of players who need to be off the board before I look at the next tier. This allows you to rank/weight the risk and reward of players.

If I was going to use the "Chad Ford" style of tiers my top 6 would look like this

A. None
B. None
C. Ball, Edwards
D. Okongwu, Hayes, Avdija, Wiseman,




Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2020, 10:18:41 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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 :(
got to admit there's no players in this draft that I see as "sure things" to be at least top-quality starters.  looks like a few average starters with a lot of role players in this draft.

100% agree This draft will likely yield at least one"surprise all stars" from outside the top 5, a lot of busts, and a solid group of long term winning role players. The guys like Avdija, Vassell, Haliburton, Tillman, Bolmaro, Nesmith, Green, Bane, and Prichard who can fill obvious roles on teams will be the safe picks to at least produce in the NBA.   

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2020, 11:43:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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My April tiered big board with the free time to watch games, highlights and read more scouting my board has change alot. Like before tiers are not "Chad Ford" style but rather just groups of players I would take not mater the fit before drafting from the lower tier.

In your mind, what is the upside of a Tier 1 player in this draft? Tier 2? Tier 3? Etc.

Its tough because if I was going to brake my tiers up into predicted outcomes it would be

A. Franchise level talent/super star
B. Allstar
C. Fringe All Star
D. High end Starter
E. Starter (top bench player (6th man) on great team)
F. Playoff level role play (top 3 guy off bench)
G. passable role player
H. Bottom of bench
I. Non NBA player

The problem with that grading system is how do you balance the low floor high ceiling players? McDaniels could be the best player in this class if he keeps his current athletic ability and get up to 225+ lbs but could also spend years in the G-league or over seas. (see Anthony Randolph/Austin Daye). This is why I keep my tiers as groups of players who need to be off the board before I look at the next tier. This allows you to rank/weight the risk and reward of players.

If I was going to use the "Chad Ford" style of tiers my top 6 would look like this

A. None
B. None
C. Ball, Edwards
D. Okongwu, Hayes, Avdija, Wiseman,

That's pretty much exactly where I'm at. I'm pretty low on Ball and higher on Wiseman than most. I'm also guessing that there will be a random late pick that becomes a top 5 player in this draft.

But that's pretty close to my thinking.

I used to keep a draft website where I ranked them by franchise, all-star, starter, role player, and fringe player tiers. Their tier showed their best-case scenario ceiling.

But also within each tier I had three categories that showed their floor. For example Franchise tier 1 was a sure franchise cornerstone. Franchise tier 2 was a possible franchise cornerstone but had one main concern (ie defensive lapses, etc). Franchise tier 3 was a high risk high upside guy who had several concerns or one big concern (work ethic, attitude, shooting and defensive lapses, injuries concerns, etc.).

This structure allowed me to understand the draft process better. Because of the excess time, I will probably try to give my humble attempt at tiers according to that structure at some point in the next few weeks.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2020, 12:52:34 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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My April tiered big board with the free time to watch games, highlights and read more scouting my board has change alot. Like before tiers are not "Chad Ford" style but rather just groups of players I would take not mater the fit before drafting from the lower tier.

In your mind, what is the upside of a Tier 1 player in this draft? Tier 2? Tier 3? Etc.

Its tough because if I was going to brake my tiers up into predicted outcomes it would be

A. Franchise level talent/super star
B. Allstar
C. Fringe All Star
D. High end Starter
E. Starter (top bench player (6th man) on great team)
F. Playoff level role play (top 3 guy off bench)
G. passable role player
H. Bottom of bench
I. Non NBA player

The problem with that grading system is how do you balance the low floor high ceiling players? McDaniels could be the best player in this class if he keeps his current athletic ability and get up to 225+ lbs but could also spend years in the G-league or over seas. (see Anthony Randolph/Austin Daye). This is why I keep my tiers as groups of players who need to be off the board before I look at the next tier. This allows you to rank/weight the risk and reward of players.

If I was going to use the "Chad Ford" style of tiers my top 6 would look like this

A. None
B. None
C. Ball, Edwards
D. Okongwu, Hayes, Avdija, Wiseman,

That's pretty much exactly where I'm at. I'm pretty low on Ball and higher on Wiseman than most. I'm also guessing that there will be a random late pick that becomes a top 5 player in this draft.

But that's pretty close to my thinking.

I used to keep a draft website where I ranked them by franchise, all-star, starter, role player, and fringe player tiers. Their tier showed their best-case scenario ceiling.

But also within each tier I had three categories that showed their floor. For example Franchise tier 1 was a sure franchise cornerstone. Franchise tier 2 was a possible franchise cornerstone but had one main concern (ie defensive lapses, etc). Franchise tier 3 was a high risk high upside guy who had several concerns or one big concern (work ethic, attitude, shooting and defensive lapses, injuries concerns, etc.).

This structure allowed me to understand the draft process better. Because of the excess time, I will probably try to give my humble attempt at tiers according to that structure at some point in the next few weeks.

The sub tiers is a good idea but its an impractical system to actually use. If you where forced to draft by your tiers and had "my favorite question mark" Jaden McDaniels as a Tier B (allstar) tier 3 (high risk) how do you place him in a draft ranking? Do you draft by your tiers and take the B guy over say Okoro or Avidja because he has the higher floor?

Also I find the Wiseman's ranking in general to be interesting. The mainstream media boards have him ranked at least top 5 while the fringe media (draft twiiter) is low on him. I suspect where he falls in the draft will largesly be based on how analytics based each teams front office is and more so them any other prospect roster construction will come into play for him. Having redundant Wings is great, redundant guards is passable, but redundant bigs is a problem. Looking at the lottery I dont see ATL, Cavs, NY, Bulls, Suns, or Portland taking Wiseman. Would add Kings but they might be willing to try Bagely next to Wiseman. Either way thats 6 out of the 14 lottery teams.   

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2020, 12:06:09 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Here's my draft tiers with basic comps and brief notes. It doesn't cover every prospect, but some of the top ones and some of my picks for diamonds in the rough.

Franchise-level talent
none

Allstar-level talent
High probability
none

Some risk
none

High risk
James Wiseman - elite size and high level athleticism with a good motor. High risk because his game could easily be extinct in the NBA, and because of disqualification concerns. Not enough tape to project touch on high-level post moves or floor-stretching. Shades of Hassan Whiteside, Derrick Favors, and Willie Cauley-Stein.

Anthony Edwards - elite athleticism with some advanced scoring moves as a lead ball-handler. High risk because of bad habits and bad shots. Shades of Donovan Mitchell, Dion Waters, and Emmanuel Mudiay.

Obi Toppin - really good athlete, good finisher, and good scorer. High risk because you have to be really good to be a scorer at that position and because of strength of schedule concerns. Shades of Amare Stoudamire, John Collins, and JJ Hickson.

Killian Hayes - great size and strength and good court vision and scoring for a lead guard. High risk because of low efficiency and bounciness. Shades of Luke Doncic-lite, Spencer Dinwiddie, and George Hill.

Starter
High probability
Deni Avdija - great vision and size. Low risk, but always tentative about the transition to the NBA athleticism. Shades of James Johnson (age 30) and Dario Saric.

Patrick Williams - great size, athleticism, and strength. Good feel for how to be effective in low usage. Will need to develop, but I see him as an ideal role player that can perform in big games. Shades of Jae Crowder, OG Anunoby, and Solomon Hill.

Some risk
Tyrese Haliburton - great size, vision, and patience for a guard. High risk because of slight frame and because his set shot won't translate at the next level to shooting the three off the bounce. Shades of Malcolm Brogdon, Lonzo Ball, Joe Ingles.

Vernon Carey - great size and productivity at Duke. Some risk because there are questions whether he can stay at a playing weight. Shades of Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe, and Tony Bradley.

Onyeka Okongwu - good athleticism and productivity. Some risk because he is a tweener and might not have the skills to actually produce offensively. Shades of Tristan Thompson, Jerami Grant, and Bobby Portis.

Leandro Bolmaro - good size, vision, and patience driving. Some risk because of athleticism and strength. Will he work on his body? Shades of Gordon Hayward, Bogdan Bognonavic, and Alec Burks.

High Risk
Lamelo Ball - elite size and athleticism with dynamic passsing. High risk because he struggles finishing, takes bad shots, and is unrefined in the pick-and-roll. Shades of Lonzo Ball, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Michael Carter-Williams.

Guys I don't like but haven't placed yet: Theo Maledon, Cole Anthony, Jaden McDaniels, Isaiah Stewart, Udoka Azubuike, and Jalen Smith.

Guys I think I like but haven't placed yet: Jahmius Ramsey, Nico Mannion, RJ Hampton, Zeke Nnaji, Killian Tillie, and Tyler Bey.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2020, 03:49:44 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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This is my almost may tiers. With this board I think I have created a better way to merge the "Ford Style" Board and the traditional ranking board. For each prospect I have a ceiling and floor ranking.

10 Franchise Star
9 Perennial All-star
8 All-Star
7 High End starter
6 6th man/ starter
5 playoff level rotation player (can be the 7th/8th man on a great team)
4 rotation player (9th/10 on a great team 7th/8th on a decent team)
3 bottom on rotation player
2 out of the rotation
1 out of the nba

These rankings allow for more clear placement of high/ ceiling low floor player or the opposite low ceiling high floor players.

After tiers 1 and 2 I took into consideration how I think the Celtics would value this players based on their roster construction.



Player   POS   Ceiling   Floor

TIER 1         
LaMelo Ball           G   8.5   4
Anthony Edwards   W   8.5   3

TIER 2         
Killian Hayes           G   7   4
Deni Avdija          SW   6.5   4
Onyeka Okongwu   B   7   5
James Wiseman   B   8   3

TIER 3         
Isaac Okoro       W   7   3
RJ Hampton        G   7   3
Tyrese Maxey        G   7   3
Cole Anthony        G   7   3
Tyrese Haliburton   G   6   4
Devin Vassell         W   6   4
Tyrell Terry        G   6.5   3
Aaron Nesmith        W   6   4

TIER 4         
Obi Toppin           B   6.5   3
Leandro Bolmaro   W   6.5   3
Xavier Tillman           B   6   5
Patrick Williams   SW   6.5   3
Josh Green          W   6   4
Saddig Bey         SW   5   4
Nico Mannion          G   6   3

TIER 5         
Precious Achiuwa   B   6.5   2
Jaden McDaniels   SW   7.5   2
Theo Maledon          G   6   3
Kira Lewis          G   6.5   2
Zeke Nnaji          B   6   3
Isiah Stewart          B   6   2
Jalen Smith          B   6   2

TIER 6         
Tyler Bey                  SW   5   3
Aleksej Pokusevski   B   7   1
Desmond Bane   W   5   3
Jahmi'us Ramsey   W   6   1
Immanuel Quickley   G   5   2
Killian Tillie           SW   5   3
Paul Reed           B   6   1
Paul Eboua          SW   6   1
Payton Prichard   G   5   4

TIER 7         
Marko Simonovic'   B   5   3
Tre Jones                   G   5   3
Cassius Winston   G   5   3
Vern Carey Jr           B   5   3
Cassius Stanley   W   5   3
Robert Woodard   SW   5   3

TIER 8         
Kaleb Wesson   B   5   2
Reggie Perry   B   5.5   1
Grant Riller   G   5   2
Skylar Mays   G   5   2
Devon Dotson   G   5   2

TIER 9         
Daniel Oturu           B   5   1
Marcus Howard   G   5   1
Nick Richards           B   5   1
Elijah Hughes           W   5   1
Udoka Azybuike   B   5   1
Jordan Nwora          W   5   1
 


Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2020, 05:20:33 PM »

Online GreenShooter

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Desmond Bane had a poor cast around him this year. He had to force some shots. Still a very good shooter. Wing span will limit him to some capacity in the NBA. Does other things well also, pass, rebound, help defense.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2020, 10:30:08 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Desmond Bane had a poor cast around him this year. He had to force some shots. Still a very good shooter. Wing span will limit him to some capacity in the NBA. Does other things well also, pass, rebound, help defense.

I also like Bane, the wingspan worries me as it will limit his versatility. Itís really hard to find NBA wings with -2 wingspans. That being said he is an NBA player and I gave him a 5/3 rating because Iím confident he is a long term rotational player but see his wingspan as the limiting factor preventing him from being an NBA starter.

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2020, 08:39:49 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Mannion williams smith McDaniels.. that's who I like with our picks

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2020, 03:43:48 AM »

Offline Boss_Dick

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Xavier Tillman, Udoka Azubuike, Makur Maker... Trade or Drop any three of (Poirier, Green, Edwards, Ojeleye)...plus the 2nd round pick for future assets..
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 03:50:02 AM by Boss_Dick »

Re: 2020 Tiered Draft Big Board
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2020, 04:33:38 PM »

Offline footey

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Xavier Tillman, Udoka Azubuike, Makur Maker... Trade or Drop any three of (Poirier, Green, Edwards, Ojeleye)...plus the 2nd round pick for future assets..

Where does Maker show up in mock drafts? I doubt he's around late first.