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Author Topic: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu  (Read 2646 times)

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Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2020, 08:11:48 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Pass. Bamba is basically the same as RWilliams at this stage, and Gordon has seemingly already dropped off since his peak.

Plus, would make our shooting woes dramatically worse. Pass

You're right about it not helping our shooting, but that could be addressed by adding another scoring guard. Bamba would be a redundancy with Williams but his injuries have me concerned.

I think Gordon can come into his own a little more in a new situation where he can play the 4 full-time. He doesn't have superstar potential but he's a very good defender and could be more effective if he played within a role on offense.
you're not addressing any of the current scoring problems.  Gordon is backsliding and Bamba hasn't shown anything yet.  not giving up Hayward for that package.
Yeah, plus I'm not sure our playmaking can suffer the loss of Hayward. Our two young wings are poor passers, and Hayward is our best one. Trading him for an average passer who cannot shoot (Gordon) and a big with no passing at all (Bamba) is a bad idea.
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Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2020, 10:09:29 PM »

Offline liam

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Good trade for The Celtics but The Magic hang up on this one...

thinking its a prank call  ;)

Every call Danny makes to other GMs is a prank call! ;D

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 12:05:38 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This trade makes sense to me for the C's as it adds young pieces that you hope can help make a championship core around Tatum and Brown at some point down the line. 
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Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 12:20:51 PM »

Online Sophomore

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Pass. Bamba is basically the same as RWilliams at this stage, and Gordon has seemingly already dropped off since his peak.

Plus, would make our shooting woes dramatically worse. Pass

You're right about it not helping our shooting, but that could be addressed by adding another scoring guard. Bamba would be a redundancy with Williams but his injuries have me concerned.

I think Gordon can come into his own a little more in a new situation where he can play the 4 full-time. He doesn't have superstar potential but he's a very good defender and could be more effective if he played within a role on offense.
you're not addressing any of the current scoring problems.  Gordon is backsliding and Bamba hasn't shown anything yet.  not giving up Hayward for that package.
Yeah, plus I'm not sure our playmaking can suffer the loss of Hayward. Our two young wings are poor passers, and Hayward is our best one. Trading him for an average passer who cannot shoot (Gordon) and a big with no passing at all (Bamba) is a bad idea.

This is what I would worry about too. Gordon is a really nice defender, but I worry about what he'd do to the offense. He's been trying to prove he's a SF for years, despite failing and failing and failing. When they move the ball - really, when Hayward does - they are so much harder to guard. We want Tatum and Brown attacking closeouts and making quick decisions as much as possible. Pound-the-rock iso ball is a recipe for early 3s and stagnation. Gordon makes that worse.

Can't say about Bamba because I just don't know much about him.

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 01:20:53 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Here's the problem with this trade. I think most people like the idea of Aaron Gordon more than the actually on-court impact.

He's a power forward in the modern NBA, but he tries to play like a play-making wing. He can't shoot from the outside (31% for his career), but he still launches 4 a game. He's isn't a good enough ball-handler to break down his man off the dribble, but he tries to do that all the time. Like 38% of his shots are from mid-range. The idea of him as a defender has always tantalized, but he's not locked-in enough and his defensive instincts aren't great (.5 blocks and .7 steals per game even though he is one of the most gifted athletes in the NBA).

I've always liked the idea of Gordon, but I'm not even sure what he gives to the Celtics that Hayward doesn't bring. Hayward is a better defensive and offensive player in just about every way. I'm not even completely sure Aaron Gordon would start on the Cs over Smart.

When you break it down, this trade is about your evaluation of Mo Bamba's talent (Aminu is injured and may be out for the year), which is a highly debated topic.

Even if Bamba becomes a solid NBA starter in 2-3 years, I'm not sure that trade makes sense.

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 01:34:14 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm not a believer in Bamba, so I wouldn't do it.

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2020, 02:32:20 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Complete waste, IMO. None of those guys helps us immediately, or long-term. Gordon's an average rebounder, terrible 3 pt shooter, not a rim protector. He brings nothing we don't already have, and fills in none of the blanks on the things we don't.

Bamba hasn't proven he's anything more than an end of the bencher. Big project on a team with no room for one. He wouldn't get on the floor except in garbage time. May not even be in the league in a few years.

Is Aminu out for the year? He was doing virtually nothing when healthy.

If Ainge decides he won't or can't resign Hayward, that Hayward is opting out, and wants to trade him, there's really no point if we can't get something more for him than Gordon. Keeping Hayward for the playoffs would make far more sense.

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 02:35:10 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Good lord ....poor CBS

you re wanting to trade his TWO favorite celtic sons .  LOL

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 03:00:57 PM »

Offline jbp126

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The idea around this trade is thinking more about long-term fits that could also work in the present. Part of it is hedging to not lose Hayward for nothing in the offseason. Another part is thinking more about what Gordon could be if utilized differently, more than what he is right now with Orlando. I'll defer to Zach Lowe's recent critical but slightly optimistic assessment of him.

Quote
Boy, did Gordon need this recent mini-hot streak: 60 points on 23-of-39 shooting over Orlando's last three outings, and a last-second game-winner Monday in Sacramento. It has otherwise been a stilted, disappointing season for Gordon.

I thought this was the year it might finally happen for him. I predicted Gordon would make the All-Star Game.

Instead, Gordon's production on offense has dipped across the board, though he remains engaged on the other end. There are three theoretical Gordons: the player Gordon wants to be; the player Orlando wants him to be; and the player Orlando needs him to be because of their roster construction. The actual Gordon is paralyzed in some sort of existential tension between all three.

The first player -- Gordon's dream for himself -- is a ball-dominant scorer. Orlando indulges that Gordon by calling occasional post-ups for him and giving him some freedom to go rogue. Gordon can make hay against smaller players. He has done well on scripted duck-ins. But too many of his forays into would-be stardom end with bricked fadeaway

A player this powerful should not spend so much time spinning away from the hoop. He rarely draws fouls. The Magic have scored 0.826 points per possession anytime Gordon shoots out of a post-up or passes to a teammate who fires right away -- 74th among 96 players who have recorded at least 25 post-ups, per Second Spectrum data. He is not much of an inside-out playmaker. A full 77% of those post-ups have ended with Gordon shooting -- the second highest such rate in that sample.

The best version of Gordon on a good team is something like his take on Draymond Green: screening and rolling as a power forward, spraying passes (Gordon is an underrated playmaker), defending like all hell across every position. The Magic have never put Gordon in optimal position to find that role. They shoehorned him onto the wing next to Serge Ibaka and now Jonathan Isaac.

That is not on its face unworkable. Some of those ultra-big Magic lineups have performed well -- including last season. Talented frontcourt partners render positional designations irrelevant. What position would Gordon play next to, say, Kevin Durant and a traditional center in Brooklyn? Isaac has some blossoming all-around skill on offense.

But Isaac also is very young. Before Isaac's injury, it felt -- from the outside -- Orlando was reaching the point at which it would have to make a final call on Gordon. There are teams who would give a lot for Gordon. Isaac's knee injury may have put off those decisions. The Magic don't have to rush. Gordon is still just 24.

But stasis often becomes untenable.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28482160/ten-nba-things-like-including-luka-doncic-dwight-powell-dance

Bamba simply intrigues me as a prospect and Aminu is just for salary purposes. Again, shooting would still be a concern that would need to be addressed, but I thought this was a different type of trade proposal instead of the same old "WE NEED A BIG" ideas.

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2020, 03:03:23 PM »

Offline jbp126

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Also, depending on the leftover draft assets, a roster of youngish prospects and mid-teir salaries makes other trades possible (i.e. Towns).

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2020, 09:39:27 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote


Some rival executives believe the Celtics could have a tough time finding substantial upgrades on the trade market. Their salary-cap situation just isnít conducive to a big deal. After their top five players (Kemba Walker, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward and Marcus Smart), the teamís next-biggest contract belongs to Daniel Theis at $5 million. That means the Celtics havenít wasted money in the wrong places, but it also means they donít have any bloated bench salaries to swing for a high-priced acquisition. Barring an unexpected decision to break up their core, they are limited in whom they can target. Ė via Jay King @ The Athletic
 Trade, Boston Celtics

 
There is a feeling around the league that Gordon still has untapped potential on offense, especially if he sticks to spot-up shooting, sharp cuts and crashing the offensive boards. In the meantime, he has value to the Magic as a versatile defender, especially now that Isaac is out for the season. Ė via

The Athletic

Mild rumor


Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2020, 11:08:49 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Quote


Some rival executives believe the Celtics could have a tough time finding substantial upgrades on the trade market. Their salary-cap situation just isnít conducive to a big deal. After their top five players (Kemba Walker, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward and Marcus Smart), the teamís next-biggest contract belongs to Daniel Theis at $5 million. That means the Celtics havenít wasted money in the wrong places, but it also means they donít have any bloated bench salaries to swing for a high-priced acquisition. Barring an unexpected decision to break up their core, they are limited in whom they can target. Ė via Jay King @ The Athletic
 Trade, Boston Celtics

 
There is a feeling around the league that Gordon still has untapped potential on offense, especially if he sticks to spot-up shooting, sharp cuts and crashing the offensive boards. In the meantime, he has value to the Magic as a versatile defender, especially now that Isaac is out for the season. Ė via

The Athletic

Mild rumor
I believe the second paragraph is talking about Aaron Gordon, not Gordon Hayward.
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Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2020, 11:12:27 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Do this trade and we lose a good Greek Freak defender (Semi), lose a scorer and facilitator and leader (Hayward), and gain a toothpick for Embiid to clean his teeth with (Bamba) after he feasts on our front line.

As much as I like Mo he is still a project.

At least with Semi we have someone who can body up the physical Embiid...someone who plays physical defense with Greek Freak.

Aaron Gordon would help but it'd be marginal at best.

I say thumbs down to this trade.

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Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2020, 08:33:37 AM »

Offline iadera

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Hayward will be crucial in the playoffs, we need his skills and experience. There is always just one thing. Will he be healthy?

Re: Hayward and Semi for Aaron Gordon, Bamba, Aminu
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2020, 08:58:33 AM »

Offline moiso

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No way.  Bamba could end up a stiff and Gordon seems more like a glue guy role player- like the 4th or 5th leading scorer on a starting unit on a good team.  He hasn't really added much skill to his game since he came into the league and I cringe every time he tries to create offense.  Hayward and Semi seem much more useful than the Orlando package.