Poll: Hayward Memphis pick for Drummond and Rose

[Somebody]

I couldn't care less about chronic injuries as long as the player can play at full strength in the games that count tbh (see Kawhi last season).

I don't think Kawhi has a chronic injury.

I've never heard of Kawhi taking cortisone shots.

Having a chronic injury doesn't equate to taking cortisone shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2019/11/doris-burke-rips-kawhi-leonard-sitting-out-against-bucks

"B-b-but I don't think he has a chronic injury! I need to clutch at my beloved narratives!"

[IDreamCeltics]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

[gouki88]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Hilarious.

[Fierce1]

I couldn't care less about chronic injuries as long as the player can play at full strength in the games that count tbh (see Kawhi last season).

I don't think Kawhi has a chronic injury.

I've never heard of Kawhi taking cortisone shots.

Having a chronic injury doesn't equate to taking cortisone shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2019/11/doris-burke-rips-kawhi-leonard-sitting-out-against-bucks

"B-b-but I don't think he has a chronic injury! I need to clutch at my beloved narratives!"

The article you shared NEVER said anything about Kawhi having a chronic injury.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they're just sitting Kawhi to preserve him for the playoffs?

I understand if you don't like Drummond, but saying that a 29-year old Hayward with nerve issues is a better choice than a 26-year old Drummond is just typical of a biased Celtic fan.

If being damaged goods doesn't really matter in the NBA, Joel Embiid would have gone #1 in the 2014 Draft.

Why do you think Embiid slid all the way to #3.

[gouki88]

I couldn't care less about chronic injuries as long as the player can play at full strength in the games that count tbh (see Kawhi last season).

I don't think Kawhi has a chronic injury.

I've never heard of Kawhi taking cortisone shots.

Having a chronic injury doesn't equate to taking cortisone shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2019/11/doris-burke-rips-kawhi-leonard-sitting-out-against-bucks

"B-b-but I don't think he has a chronic injury! I need to clutch at my beloved narratives!"

The article you shared NEVER said anything about Kawhi having a chronic injury.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they're just sitting Kawhi to preserve him for the playoffs?

I understand if you don't like Drummond, but saying that a 29-year old Hayward with nerve issues is a better choice than a 26-year old Drummond is just typical of a biased Celtic fan.

If being damaged goods doesn't really matter in the NBA, Joel Embiid would have gone #1 in the 2014 Draft.

Why do you think Embiid slid all the way to #3.

Seriously? All the teams that passed on Embiid because of injury concerns regret that. If those concerns don’t threaten the career of a player (like Hayward’s case) then talent trumps it.

Now you’re just clinging to this nonsense narrative that Hayward is damaged goods due to a nerve issue because the idea that we need a big has collapsed.

[Somebody]

I couldn't care less about chronic injuries as long as the player can play at full strength in the games that count tbh (see Kawhi last season).

I don't think Kawhi has a chronic injury.

I've never heard of Kawhi taking cortisone shots.

Having a chronic injury doesn't equate to taking cortisone shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2019/11/doris-burke-rips-kawhi-leonard-sitting-out-against-bucks

"B-b-but I don't think he has a chronic injury! I need to clutch at my beloved narratives!"

The article you shared NEVER said anything about Kawhi having a chronic injury.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they're just sitting Kawhi to preserve him for the playoffs?

I understand if you don't like Drummond, but saying that a 29-year old Hayward with nerve issues is a better choice than a 26-year old Drummond is just typical of a biased Celtic fan.

If being damaged goods doesn't really matter in the NBA, Joel Embiid would have gone #1 in the 2014 Draft.

Why do you think Embiid slid all the way to #3.

> the article NEVER said he had a chronic injury

Kawhi Leonard has dealt with a chronic quad problem for seven years. Kawhi said he wouldn't have gotten to the Finals without load management. Yet we're debating if he should rest? Maybe Kawhi, the person dealing with the issue, and his actual doctors know better than we do.

NEVER! I cannot let my narrative be disproven by facts! NEVER!

[LilRip]

Call me crazy, but I think Hayward is better than Drummond. So why waste that plus adding a draft pick?

What is Hayward's main weaknesses? Please point them out.

While Rose has been fantastic, where in our rotation, is he getting minutes, let alone shots?

Ah, finally! Hayward is for my mind easily better than Hayward. The whole "Hayward is a luxury, Drummond is a need" is nonsense to me.

Who do you think an expansion team would pick if there's an expansion draft?

You really think Hayward would be #1 and Drummond is #2?

Right now Hayward is damaged goods.

It might not make sense to you, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense in general.

Drummond at $20-$24 million is worth it. Anything more? No thanks. He's just too limited.

BUT.

If I may digress... Stevens can work wonders with anyone. Sometimes I do salivate about Drummond's high post passing, awesome screen setting, and perfect roll big man. He's a sure fire 18/12.

I do wonder about the potential.

My only qualms is he's going to be seeking max money, and that's the issue with his player option and how much it ruins your cap flexibility.

THIS!

CBS has a way of getting the most out of players and imo, the potential is there with Drummond. He has vision, he can set screens, he’s an elite rebounder, and he doesn’t seem to demand the ball nor does he need it to be effective. He’s surprisingly mobile for his size too. As your 4th best player? Sounds great. As your best player? Not so much.

The reason I put more stock into potential fit is because look at Draymond Green now. No all stars around him and the guy hasn’t looked the best (8-6-6 and 27% from 3). Plus, he can’t lead his team to the playoffs. He’s just not meant to be a team’s best player. But tbh, I think Draymond would be a monster on our team beside Kemba, JB and JT.

Where Monkhouse and I differ is that I would rather have the bird rights of Drummond than Hayward. There’s no cap flexibility to be had, imo. And I think both guys will get more money than they deserve in the offseason (not necessarily max money).

[Fierce1]

I couldn't care less about chronic injuries as long as the player can play at full strength in the games that count tbh (see Kawhi last season).

I don't think Kawhi has a chronic injury.

I've never heard of Kawhi taking cortisone shots.

Having a chronic injury doesn't equate to taking cortisone shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2019/11/doris-burke-rips-kawhi-leonard-sitting-out-against-bucks

"B-b-but I don't think he has a chronic injury! I need to clutch at my beloved narratives!"

The article you shared NEVER said anything about Kawhi having a chronic injury.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they're just sitting Kawhi to preserve him for the playoffs?

I understand if you don't like Drummond, but saying that a 29-year old Hayward with nerve issues is a better choice than a 26-year old Drummond is just typical of a biased Celtic fan.

If being damaged goods doesn't really matter in the NBA, Joel Embiid would have gone #1 in the 2014 Draft.

Why do you think Embiid slid all the way to #3.

Seriously? All the teams that passed on Embiid because of injury concerns regret that. If those concerns don’t threaten the career of a player (like Hayward’s case) then talent trumps it.

Now you’re just clinging to this nonsense narrative that Hayward is damaged goods due to a nerve issue because the idea that we need a big has collapsed.

The idea collapsed?

As far as I know the trade deadline is still 2 weeks away.

I wonder what you guys will say if Ainge trades for a big man.

[vjcsmoke]

Drummond is a solid player and a monster rebounder.
However he doesn't seem to fit well with the Celtics style of offense.
Hayward is much more valuable offensively than Drummond.
Not only is Hayward a scorer but he is also a ball handler and chance creator for this team.

I wouldn't want to mess with what's working right now.
Hayward can score at any level including from deep.

Don't think Kanter would be very happy to become second fiddle to Drummond either.
Rose doesn't even have any positive value for us.

So the trade really becomes Hayward plus a possible top 8 pick in exchange for Drummond.
I'm already dubious that Drummond is a better fit than Hayward, so giving up that pick on top of that is just a non-starter for the Celtics in terms of value.

Celtics should be willing to deal the Memphis pick but only for the right piece as that could easily turn into a future star player on the level of Tatum or Brown.
Unfortunately we haven't been successful in drafting a 'Big' since the days of Al Jefferson.

[mmmmm]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Scoring Efficiency (TS%) without Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 51.9%
Jaylen Brown 59.5%
Kemba Walker 58.2%
Daniel Theis 55.4%
Enes Kanter 59.8%

Team overall: 55.6%
Team Offensive Rating:  113.2
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  55.0%

Scoring efficiency WITH Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 57.6%
Jaylen Brown 59.8%
Kemba Walker 60.5%
Daniel Theis 60.5%
Enes Kanter 65.6%

Team Overall:  57.7%
Team Offensive Rating: 117.0
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  58.5%

[Androslav]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Hogwarts has been here for 3 years now and you rather spill milk then to learn his name.
Please see the rosters from the best teams in the league.
Hayward is undoubtedly the 3rd best player on todays top 3 contenders; Lac, Lal and Mil not 4th or 5th. Houston, Boston... The same.

[gouki88]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Scoring Efficiency (TS%) without Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 51.9%
Jaylen Brown 59.5%
Kemba Walker 58.2%
Daniel Theis 55.4%
Enes Kanter 59.8%

Team overall: 55.6%
Team Offensive Rating:  113.2
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  55.0%

Scoring efficiency WITH Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 57.6%
Jaylen Brown 59.8%
Kemba Walker 60.5%
Daniel Theis 60.5%
Enes Kanter 65.6%

Team Overall:  57.7%
Team Offensive Rating: 117.0
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  58.5%

TP, although you won’t get a response. He’s not actually interested in discussion, just trolling.

[Who]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Scoring Efficiency (TS%) without Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 51.9%
Jaylen Brown 59.5%
Kemba Walker 58.2%
Daniel Theis 55.4%
Enes Kanter 59.8%

Team overall: 55.6%
Team Offensive Rating:  113.2
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  55.0%

Scoring efficiency WITH Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 57.6%
Jaylen Brown 59.8%
Kemba Walker 60.5%
Daniel Theis 60.5%
Enes Kanter 65.6%

Team Overall:  57.7%
Team Offensive Rating: 117.0
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  58.5%

TP, although you won’t get a response. He’s not actually interested in discussion, just trolling.

Yeah, TP. Awesome stats.

[Sketch5]

It seems like a fair trade to me, both the primaries in the deal (Haywart and Drummond) are probably the 4th or 5th best player on a contender.

The difference is Hayward has proven to be completely redundant on this team. We've had almost a three year sample size to look at now and the team doesn't get any worse when he's unavailable nor does it get better when he is available.  He's just another guy you can plug into Brad's system.

I'm not 100% sure Drummond is the answer, but it'd be nice to have an actual center again instead of a bunch of guys who are backups at best on playoff teams.

Scoring Efficiency (TS%) without Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 51.9%
Jaylen Brown 59.5%
Kemba Walker 58.2%
Daniel Theis 55.4%
Enes Kanter 59.8%

Team overall: 55.6%
Team Offensive Rating:  113.2
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  55.0%

Scoring efficiency WITH Gordon Hayward on the floor:

Jayson Tatum 57.6%
Jaylen Brown 59.8%
Kemba Walker 60.5%
Daniel Theis 60.5%
Enes Kanter 65.6%

Team Overall:  57.7%
Team Offensive Rating: 117.0
Team Assisted Shot Rate:  58.5%

Bringing facts to an internet discussion.

How Dare You!

[Fierce1]

Stats don't tell the whole story.

If Celts are so good with Hayward then why is the Celtic record just 16-10 when Hayward is playing?