Danny Ainge excuses and lack of trades(merged threads)

[Fafnir]

It is frustrating to see other teams improve and the Cs stay put. Do not like the bench at all come playoff time..esp after Williams, Smart and Kanter. They need a 3 point shooter at the 4. Do not think guys like Semi or Langford provided much offense when it comes time for the playoffs.

I hope Danny isn't overvaluing his picks again for this draft. They are all pretty average in an average draft. Nothing special worth holding onto.

ESPN is predicting the Heat to be the 2nd best team in the East, right now.

I mean sure? They had the second best record for a solid period just recently and aren't far back.

I'm a bit skeptical because I think their record is still better than their underlying team due to winning a crap ton of close games (8-0 in OT among other close finishes)

But if they do lock in Gallo he opens up a lot stronger closing offensive line up for them.

[GreenFaith1819]

Hopefully - asleep.

Unless it's a home run I see Zero reason to make a trade.

Our bench has seen improved play lately (See Brad Wannamaker and GWill), we already have a tough physical defender in Semi who plays good defense against Greek Freak and Kanter comes off the bench once Theis returns.

The last thing he should do is make a knee-jerk trade just because everyone else is.

Perhaps everyone else is desperate? I know that for PHI there is desperation....4 years into "The Process" and it could very well end up being "The Regress"......

Additionally - the CHEMISTRY on this team RIGHT NOW is through the roof....quite the departure from a year ago.................

Again - unless there is a CLEAR move to improve us I'd just let Danny sleep in today.

[Moranis]

Let's not forget that Toronto make some deadline deals that won them a title.

The amount of times I've heard that this year, you'd think Toronto has now authored the book on the only way to win a championship.


Just because Toronto did something, and won a championship, doesn't mean that's the exact blueprint that needs to be followed every year to win.  And saying that tends to ignores the other 20 moves they made in the 2-3 years leading up to their '19 championship to get there (trade for Kawhi, re-sign Lowry/Ibaka, draft Siakam at 27, get production from nobodies like VanVleet and Powell, etc.).  It wasn't just trading for Gasol that won them the championship, it was the culmination of all their moves.


Many teams have won a championship without making a trade (of significance).  Even excluding heavy favorites (like GS): 2014 Spurs only traded for a guy who played 6 mins in the playoffs despite 4th best record at the deadline.  2011 Mavs didn't make a trade despite having only the 4th best record at the deadline.  2007 Spurs didn't make a trade despite being 3rd in the West.  I want to give more examples, but really most of the time the heavy favorite wins (GS, MIA, LAL, BOS, etc.), even despite other teams making moves.

Just because the '19 Raptors or the '04 Pistons (Sheed) won a championship by trading for a key starter at the deadline, doesn't mean that any team that wants to win a championship needs to do that too.  There are many different paths to a championship.

Not to mention the fact that Toronto also needed INCREDIBLE luck (injuries to KD, Klay and even Cousins) to win the championship last year.

Using the Raptors' deadline deals last season as a basis for saying that we should go for broke this year is silly.

The Bucks also forgot how to shoot after shooting so well for the first 2.5 series of the playoffs. 

That said, Toronto probably doesn't beat Philly without making the Gasol trade (I mean it came down to a game 7 buzzer beater).  Milwaukee and Philadelphia were also very active in the trade deadline last year. 

This year though, unlike many recent seasons, there is no super duper heavy favorite in either conference.  Even Milwaukee is beatable, so there should be even more activity, especially with so many teams closely grouped together behind the top seeds. 

[MichiganAdam]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

Because the team is on the verge of winning a Championship.

If you believe the team is close, then making a move like Miami made has to be done. Miami went out and got at least 1, if not 2, players that will immediately make them better and didn't give up much in the process.  The Sixers, clearly have issues, but they went out and got 2 players that fill a need for them for basically nothing.  The Rockets pushed their cards in and went for it.  Denver picked up additional assets for deep bench players presumably so they could make a more impactful move. 

If you think this team is close then it needs to make moves.  It has to shore up the bench and get depth.  The team could use a few more specialists and someone that can create offense for the bench unit.

On the other hand, if you don't think the team is all that close then sitting back and doing nothing is probably the correct move.

If Danny believes that the team is close, we don't need depth. Depth is important in the regular season, but it means way less in the post season. It's usual for teams to go with an 8-man/9-man rotation in the playoffs. The idea is to use your best players as much as possible.

What we need is to upgrade the C position. Apparently, Danny believes that our #1 priority is adding a shooter off the bench. I mean, sure whatever. It's possible that he won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

playoff rotation (assuming health, cause if we get unlucky we aren't winning anyway)

Kemba (36 minutes) - Smart (12)
Brown (36) - Smart (12)
Hayward (36) - Smart (12)
Tatum (36) - Grant/Semi (12)
Theis (30) - Kanter (18)

(or something along these lines)

Would it be worth it to reduce Smart's minutes in favour of the new guy? Personally speaking, I don't think it would.

I disagree about the depth if you think this team is close.  There is no way I want Grant or Semi getting playoff rotational minutes except for very specific situations.  I don't think Theis should be playing 30 mpg either, though Kanter could be ok with more than 18.  I don't think Smart is good enough to be playing PG anymore even in a back-up role.  I also don't want Smart playing SF at all (though you could switch things around so when he is on the floor with Brown, Brown is the SF).  The team needs another credible big man and another credible ball handler.  The ball handler also needs to be an offense creator as Kanter is currently the only bench player that is at least even average in that department. 

If you think this team is close it absolutely needs 2 bench players added to it.  If you don't think the team is all that close, then there is no point in giving up assets to improve the bench, but as I indicated a lot of these players are being moved for basically nothing (and you should always make those moves).

BY definition with an 8 man rotation at least 2 of the starters are on the floor at a time.  I strongly suspect, if all 8 are healthy, you will see one of hayward and kemba on the floor at all times, and one of JB,JT on the floor at a time.  This gives us a primary ball handler(plus smart)/offense creator on the floor with a primary scorer(plus kanter).  So basically 2 ball handler, 2 scorers, 2 defenders (smart and JB covers 2 of 3) on the floor at all times. What the C's lack is a 9th guy who can simply light it up from 3, a better option than Theis to start at C, or stretch 4/5 if the C's have to matchup against big teams.  I wish we had gotten KP.  He would have been ideal.  He could have really filled all three roles, but for big money extension.

[Moranis]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

Because the team is on the verge of winning a Championship.

If you believe the team is close, then making a move like Miami made has to be done. Miami went out and got at least 1, if not 2, players that will immediately make them better and didn't give up much in the process.  The Sixers, clearly have issues, but they went out and got 2 players that fill a need for them for basically nothing.  The Rockets pushed their cards in and went for it.  Denver picked up additional assets for deep bench players presumably so they could make a more impactful move. 

If you think this team is close then it needs to make moves.  It has to shore up the bench and get depth.  The team could use a few more specialists and someone that can create offense for the bench unit.

On the other hand, if you don't think the team is all that close then sitting back and doing nothing is probably the correct move.

If Danny believes that the team is close, we don't need depth. Depth is important in the regular season, but it means way less in the post season. It's usual for teams to go with an 8-man/9-man rotation in the playoffs. The idea is to use your best players as much as possible.

What we need is to upgrade the C position. Apparently, Danny believes that our #1 priority is adding a shooter off the bench. I mean, sure whatever. It's possible that he won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

playoff rotation (assuming health, cause if we get unlucky we aren't winning anyway)

Kemba (36 minutes) - Smart (12)
Brown (36) - Smart (12)
Hayward (36) - Smart (12)
Tatum (36) - Grant/Semi (12)
Theis (30) - Kanter (18)

(or something along these lines)

Would it be worth it to reduce Smart's minutes in favour of the new guy? Personally speaking, I don't think it would.

I disagree about the depth if you think this team is close.  There is no way I want Grant or Semi getting playoff rotational minutes except for very specific situations.  I don't think Theis should be playing 30 mpg either, though Kanter could be ok with more than 18.  I don't think Smart is good enough to be playing PG anymore even in a back-up role.  I also don't want Smart playing SF at all (though you could switch things around so when he is on the floor with Brown, Brown is the SF).  The team needs another credible big man and another credible ball handler.  The ball handler also needs to be an offense creator as Kanter is currently the only bench player that is at least even average in that department. 

If you think this team is close it absolutely needs 2 bench players added to it.  If you don't think the team is all that close, then there is no point in giving up assets to improve the bench, but as I indicated a lot of these players are being moved for basically nothing (and you should always make those moves).

BY definition with an 8 man rotation at least 2 of the starters are on the floor at a time.  I strongly suspect, if all 8 are healthy, you will see one of hayward and kemba on the floor at all times, and one of JB,JT on the floor at a time.  This gives us a primary ball handler(plus smart)/offense creator on the floor with a primary scorer(plus kanter).  So basically 2 ball handler, 2 scorers, 2 defenders (smart and JB covers 2 of 3) on the floor at all times. What the C's lack is a 9th guy who can simply light it up from 3, a better option than Theis to start at C, or stretch 4/5 if the C's have to matchup against big teams.  I wish we had gotten KP.  He would have been ideal.  He could have really filled all three roles, but for big money extension.

The other side of this, is basically no champion plays an 8 man rotation (Raptors did, but that is very rare).  9 or 10 is far more common, a few even have had 11 regular players (that hit most games).   Sure every once in awhile there is a rare game where you only play 7 or 8 guys, but generally the champions utilize the bench a lot.  Those teams have specialists though.  We are down 3, bring in the shooters.  We are up 3, bring in the defenders.  We are down 10, we need our offensive spark.  We are up 10, we need guys that won't turn it over and will play within the system.  Other team has a guy we want to exploit, bring in the guy that can exploit that trait.  Those are the types of things champions do and to do that, you need a deep bench.  Boston's bench is incredibly weak and thin.  If Boston wins the title, you could argue it will do so with the weakest bench any champion has ever had.  That isn't a good place to be. 

I personally don't think Boston is a legit contender, so I don't see any reason to waste assets on nominal gains for this season, but I know many on this board think Boston can contend.  If I'm wrong and Boston is a contender, then it has to make moves, especially as the main competitors make them.

[Birdman]

Boston bench is horrible as we all know but we just need to get everyone healthy first..can’t afford hurt players in playoffs or we get put out in first round

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

[BMark]

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Cs are 27th in bench scoring. Sorry, that is a problem:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=PTS&dir=-1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Cs are 27th in bench scoring. Sorry, that is a problem:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=PTS&dir=-1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

That's because we have four high level scorers in our starting lineup that rotate in with the bench. That's not an indictment of the bench.

[Donoghus]

If you're running an 8-9 rotation during the playoffs with at least two of Kemba/Tatum/Brown/Hayward on the floor at almost all times, is benching scoring going to be that much of a concern?  Certainly seems like that concern should be well alleviated as long as there are cold streaks involved. 

[BMark]

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Cs are 27th in bench scoring. Sorry, that is a problem:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=PTS&dir=-1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

That's because we have four high level scorers in our starting lineup that rotate in with the bench. That's not an indictment of the bench.

The Cs are forced to rotate starters like they do because of the offensive weakness of the bench.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Kanter and Smart are two of the most effective bench players in the NBA.

Williams and Williams are both very effective and dynamic in different situations as well.

Brad Wanamaker is underrated on this forum.

Langford, Green, and Ojeleye are fringe players, but could be effective in different scenarios.

The Celtics do not have a problem on their bench.

Cs are 27th in bench scoring. Sorry, that is a problem:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=PTS&dir=-1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

That's because we have four high level scorers in our starting lineup that rotate in with the bench. That's not an indictment of the bench.

The Cs are forced to rotate starters like they do because of the offensive weakness of the bench.

We can go around and around about this, but there is not another team in the NBA with four starting scorers like the Cs have. That's going to affect how some stats look, like bench scoring, but that is not an indictment of the bench.

[Jvalin]

Asked if he’s comfortable with the center position as is, Ainge said: “Yes, I am.” Ainge praised the play of Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter, noting he doesn’t think the Celtics are “getting beat” at center. (...) Ainge said the Celtics will pay “close attention” to the buyout market as well.

[celticsclay]

Asked if he’s comfortable with the center position as is, Ainge said: “Yes, I am.” Ainge praised the play of Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter, noting he doesn’t think the Celtics are “getting beat” at center. (...) Ainge said the Celtics will pay “close attention” to the buyout market as well.

I am glad we are paying attention.

[jambr380]

So, if Smart, Kanter, and Grant are our 1st 3 off the bench, I am comfortable with Wanamaker, TL, and Semi getting situational minutes. I could see the need for a bench scorer, but I am hopeful that a healthy Kemba, Tatum, JB, and Hayward can help alleviate any major scoring droughts. I also love that our wings are two-way players and can totally hold their own on the defensive end.