Danny Ainge excuses and lack of trades(merged threads)

[NKY fan]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

My problem with the Irving trade was Ainge didn't follow it up the following summer.  After that first season it was apparent Irving wasn't good enough to be the #1 on a contender (he should have known that at the time he acquired him, but it was late in the year and then Hayward got hurt).  After that first year, he either needed to trade Irving or go out and acquire a #1 player to pair with him.  And when the #1 player became available i.e. Kawhi, Ainge just sat on his hands and did nothing.  If he wasn't going to trade Brown and Smart for Kawhi, then he should have traded Irving and recouped some of the assets he lost acquiring him.  It would have then allowed the team to see what Rozier could have actually been and if he was worth keeping or the team would have entered the season as the favorites to come out of the east with Kawhi buoyed by Irving, Horford, Tatum, and Hayward with solid vets like Baynes and Morris on the bench along with Rozier.  I don't know if that top 8 wins the title, but it certainly would have had a significantly better opportunity to do so. 

Sitting around and waiting and hoping a great player wants to play with you is why the Knicks have been so terrible.  The plan to wait for Davis was a silly one.  Even if Davis would have bought in, there is no guarantee that Boston would have been able to acquire him anyway.  If Ainge wanted Davis, he should have just moved Irving, gotten some assets, used those asset plus say Brown and went after Davis during the season. 

It just seems to me Ainge's true plan has always been to wait for Tatum and Brown, but yet he is trading off valuable assets that could be used to support those 2 in their prime.  I mean what if Ainge had kept that Brooklyn pick and added Sexton (doesn't strike me as an Ainge pick, but without Irving maybe he goes for the scoring PG), SGA, either Bridges, Porter, Knox.  Adding that 3rd quality young player to grow with Tatum and Brown could be the difference between winning and losing a championship a few years down the line, especially if that player was SGA or a "healthy" Porter.

One thing I noticed about Ainge is that he doesn’t try to fix a bad move. He doesn’t do reactionary trades.
I think sometime last year he realized he made a mistake with Irving (despite what he’s saying) and he didn’t want to fix that. Can’t really blame him...

with that said I think kawhi could be bad relatively cheap even without brown. From checking pounding the rock it sounds like spurs fans loved Hayward ... add Memphis and Sacto picks and maybe you got kawhi plus Danny green ..

[Fafnir]

The price for Kawhi was Brown, not Hayward. The Spurs didn't care about picks they wanted players. We'd have had to send Brown + a veteran.

The C's put a package of Smart in a sign and trade and picks on the table for him, they were not interested. I doubt they'd be interested in a coming off injury Hayward and picks either.

Such a weird combination of hindsight and also fantasy.

[Moranis]

The price for Kawhi was Brown, not Hayward. The Spurs didn't care about picks they wanted players. We'd have had to send Brown + a veteran.

The C's put a package of Smart in a sign and trade and picks on the table for him, they were not interested. I doubt they'd be interested in a coming off injury Hayward and picks either.

Such a weird combination of hindsight and also fantasy.

Yeah it needed to be Smart + Brown (maybe a late 1st, maybe not).  But Ainge wouldn't include Brown, which is why Kawhi ended up in Toronto.  Season last year is a lot different if Kawhi is in Boston.  No way to know if it would have ended up with a championship, but I'd certainly have liked Boston's chances, especially seeing how Kawhi actually returned to form. 

[NKY fan]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

Its gonna be tough trying knock some sense into someone who thinks draftees who didnt even make the team had better impact than players who played a few minutes with the team.

If I claim we are 1st tier contender instead of 2nd tier starting next year will you give me the same validation the enlightened fans on here get?

Of course not. Your reasoning always blow.

It’s better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring

[Birdman]

They just need to get healthy!! Have the Celtics play 5 games with the whole team yet? Just need another vet bench guy and get healthy then we be set

[footey]

We need Rob Williams back, then we will be fine.

[Roy H.]

We need Rob Williams back, then we will be fine.

You know, he really is underlooked.  He was starting to get it, and he would definitely be helping right now.

[SHAQATTACK]

We need Rob Williams back, then we will be fine.

You know, he really is underlooked.  He was starting to get it, and he would definitely be helping right now.

Yup ...he was just starting to find his role and CBS had finally figured out the centers and who to play in different situations.

I think Boston would be at a whole new level of excellence with all its players healthy /available .  Those three bigs round out the lineup , and help keep a fresh center in the game to keep the pressure up.

[flybono]

Tick tock tick...

Keep on trading Danny, you ain’t made a bad move yet

[SHAQATTACK]

When the rocket explode after this season

Danny should make a move to aquire Harden .

Harden is older now , and has the Iq to play REAL ball , not that crap DAntoini plays in Houston. I think he could be RE trained to fit , as compared to,Irving.

[KG Living Legend]

 Where is Trader Danny when you need him? Last impactful trade was February 19th 2015.

 The Little guy came in and scores 21 points in his first game against the Lakers. 5 years since you landed IT4.

 This team has an outside shot at winning a championship a little boost could put us over the top

[RockinRyA]

There's buyout season to go. It looks like he doesnt want to mess up with chemistry, and with no mid-contract to use other than Smart, its hard to make good moves. The only real movable parts we have are Poirier and Green.

Our biggest need right now is health.

Also Walker for Rozier trade isn't impactful enough for you?

[ozgod]

There's buyout season to go. It looks like he doesnt want to mess up with chemistry, and with no mid-contract to use other than Smart, its hard to make good moves. The only real movable parts we have are Poirier and Green.

Our biggest need right now is health.

Also Walker for Rozier trade isn't impactful enough for you?

It really comes down to who are we willing to lose if we want Trader Danny to make an impactful trade to get people talking around the watercoolers. Brad already said he doesn't anticipate major changes to the team, so if anything it's only going to be minor stuff that won't really move the needle.

If we don't make a move before the deadline I'm ok with it. No point making a trade for the sake of it.

[Rondo9]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

[Csfan1984]

I think there just isn't much out there that would improve the C's. If the team is healthy they probably going to get to the finals. If guys are out they probably lose to 76ers or Bucks. Winning a championship will have to be like Raptors, we need health to be on C's side and the other team to miss one or two key guys.

Right now this is the only team that is relying on team play. It's flexible in that any one of five guys can lead the team to victory a given night. It's impressive to see.

The team's top 10 guys look set
Walker, JayB, Hayward, JayT, Theis
Wanna, Smart, Semi, GW, Kanter.

Maybe you upgrade Semi or Wanna but who is out their for a low first and cheap salary? You can do 2 for 1s for about a $3 to $5 million player. The upgrades at that salary level aren't great. C's may have to rely on the buyout market.