Danny Ainge excuses and lack of trades(merged threads)

[nickagneta]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

[A Future of Stevens]

That is correct Nick. Our young talented 2 way athletic wings with advantageous size are finished as prospects. Everyone knows anything you do after age 23 is just a waste of time when it comes to growth 

[nickagneta]

That is correct Nick. Our young talented 2 way athletic wings with advantageous size are finished as prospects. Everyone knows anything you do after age 23 is just a waste of time when it comes to growth 

Lol...TP.

[RodyTur10]

That is correct Nick. Our young talented 2 way athletic wings with advantageous size are finished as prospects. Everyone knows anything you do after age 23 is just a waste of time when it comes to growth 

On the other hand, Walker and Hayward are both just 29 years old and the best way to utilize them is to get them acquainted to the Celtics system and build chemistry the following 2-4 years and then when they are in their mid-thirties you try to win a title with them since most players reach their prime at that point.

[NKY fan]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

[nickagneta]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

[BringToughnessBack]

If we had any of 24 plus rival GM’s, we would be fringe playoff team this year. Who knows if Kemba ever makes it here. Perhaps a GM like Knicks have would have traded Brown for a bag of chips like Kevin Love. Thank God for Danny.

[NKY fan]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

Some of the things you pointed are purely bad luck and I acknowledge them.
Some of the things were indirectly or directly caused by Danny ....
So in essence you confirm what I was trying to say.
The way I see it :
If you have so many options and moves you can make to get to the top, quite often the good moves get cancelled by the unlucky moves so you end up right back where you were.

The way I see it (in my very simplified world) - Danny’s moves represent a binomial tree with some X probability of making a right move and 1-X probability of making an unlucky move...after 4-5 moves celtics can be up the tree but also can be down the tree or in the same spot.

As I stated the most likely scenario is to be tier 2 contender for the next 2-4 years..
Never in my right mind have I tried to question Danny’s GM competency or know how... I have questioned some of his tendencies and decision making

[Valid]

Lol at this entire thread. Clown stuff.

[RockinRyA]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

Its gonna be tough trying knock some sense into someone who thinks draftees who didnt even make the team had better impact than players who played a few minutes with the team.

[NKY fan]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

Its gonna be tough trying knock some sense into someone who thinks draftees who didnt even make the team had better impact than players who played a few minutes with the team.

If I claim we are 1st tier contender instead of 2nd tier starting next year will you give me the same validation the enlightened fans on here get?

[ETNCeltics]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

We lost Kyrie Irving and Al Horford, yet we're undeniably a better team. The team we have now is significantly better than the one that went to the EC Finals 3 years ago. We have 2 all stars, and another who probably didn't miss out by much. Does any other team have 2 players under 24 with J&J's potential? Dallas maybe?

And none of our players are even 30. I can't fathom you guys who are so dissatisfied with Ainge and the roster. We're in an incredibly good spot. If J&J continue to develop, we're a huge roadblock for any team trying to get to the finals for years to come.

[RockinRyA]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

While I agree about the part on competing this season if some things bounce our way.... I don’t agree we will be contending the following 2-4 years because we will need more breaks our way than we need now:
-Starting next year warriors , Brooklyn and maybe one of mavs and philly will be real contenders as they will possibly get much stronger.
- then a year after the lakers may become much stronger if they add a third star in free agency
-next year an unknown team will make the leap too - maybe one of pelicans, Atlanta or wizards.

The most likely scenario - we will be a second tier contender for the next 4 years.

So every other team in the league will get better but the Celtics won't?

How much better did we get since we had Isiah Thomas and conference finals appearance and a basket full of countless prime draft picks and young assets?

So completely ignore all the context of:

IT's injury
Everything that happened with Irving
Hayward getting hurt and his recovery
Rozier and Morris playing selfishly last year
Everything that happened with the Davis trade rumors and how it affected the team
Horford leaving
And the very real excellent development of Brown and Tatum when they are only 23 and 21 respectively?

And also ignore the fact we are as good now as we were then even though it's years later, even though we are a much younger and inexperienced team....the type of team that tends to get better as they play more together.

Yeah, sure, that makes sense.

Its gonna be tough trying knock some sense into someone who thinks draftees who didnt even make the team had better impact than players who played a few minutes with the team.

If I claim we are 1st tier contender instead of 2nd tier starting next year will you give me the same validation the enlightened fans on here get?

Of course not. Your reasoning always blow.

[Moranis]

There are no problems or excuses. Danny is waiting patiently for Tatum and Brown to fully mature to make the moves necessary to get the Celtic over the hump, and provide their best opportunity to win a ring. This isn't a video game.

Hopefully Smart, Walker and even Hayward will be involved in some way. Until then watch and enjoy the ride.

Ok then . Danny should try not to waste draft capital and young assets then. Trade the Memphis and our picks for future unprotected picks to some team. Trade maybe Romeo for a future pick as he will probably waste his talents and value on the bench and in Maine... why keep bringing 4 -5 rookies every year?

Your have it wrong.  If the plan is to wait for Tatum and Brown then he should trade veterans for additional draft or young player assets, use the picks to try to find complimentary players, etc. 

That is actually the problem I've had with Ainge's moves or lack thereof for the last several seasons.  He hasn't picked a direction.  He either needs to go all in or do whatever he can to put Tatum and Brown in the best position to win a title starting a couple of seasons down the line.  He has been trying to have his cake and eat it too for the last few seasons and is harming either path.  That is what was so bad about making the Irving trade in isolation.  He just didn't follow it up and if he wasn't going to follow it up, he never should have made it to begin with.

The Irving trade can't be looked at in isolation.  It was a trade of opportunity, but was made within the context of a larger plan.

His "plan" 6 months before that was to add a top FA to form a trio with Horford and Thomas.  He got the top FA on the market in Gordon.  But Isaiah's hip cut the legs out from under what would have been a fantastic veteran trio.   He was given the opportunity to salvage that plan with the Irving trade.  On paper, a core trio of Horford, Hayward and Irving, with the veteran role players like Baynes, Morris & Smart and the young stud talent of Jaylen & Jayson able to grow within that without pressure to be stars right away should have been a fantastic team able to compete then and in the future.   No one was complaining about Danny's "plan" going into that season.

But first Hayward got injured and then Irving showed out to maybe not really be a replacement for the pre-injury Thomas.  Those things, like Thomas' injury, aren't things Danny could control.

As Roy put it, the end result of the Irving trade was that at the end of last year Irving, Horford and Morris walked.  And Danny seems to have managed to bounce the roster right back up without missing a beat.

This roster is interesting because on one hand, it is one of the youngest rosters in the league.  On the other hand, it actually has a lot of players with a lot of playoff experience.  I think that the this roster has enough talent as is to at least be within striking distance of competing for a title now if they are completely healthy and they get a few breaks.   But beyond that, I think they are well setup to compete for a title over the next 2-4 seasons outright.

My problem with the Irving trade was Ainge didn't follow it up the following summer.  After that first season it was apparent Irving wasn't good enough to be the #1 on a contender (he should have known that at the time he acquired him, but it was late in the year and then Hayward got hurt).  After that first year, he either needed to trade Irving or go out and acquire a #1 player to pair with him.  And when the #1 player became available i.e. Kawhi, Ainge just sat on his hands and did nothing.  If he wasn't going to trade Brown and Smart for Kawhi, then he should have traded Irving and recouped some of the assets he lost acquiring him.  It would have then allowed the team to see what Rozier could have actually been and if he was worth keeping or the team would have entered the season as the favorites to come out of the east with Kawhi buoyed by Irving, Horford, Tatum, and Hayward with solid vets like Baynes and Morris on the bench along with Rozier.  I don't know if that top 8 wins the title, but it certainly would have had a significantly better opportunity to do so. 

Sitting around and waiting and hoping a great player wants to play with you is why the Knicks have been so terrible.  The plan to wait for Davis was a silly one.  Even if Davis would have bought in, there is no guarantee that Boston would have been able to acquire him anyway.  If Ainge wanted Davis, he should have just moved Irving, gotten some assets, used those asset plus say Brown and went after Davis during the season. 

It just seems to me Ainge's true plan has always been to wait for Tatum and Brown, but yet he is trading off valuable assets that could be used to support those 2 in their prime.  I mean what if Ainge had kept that Brooklyn pick and added Sexton (doesn't strike me as an Ainge pick, but without Irving maybe he goes for the scoring PG), SGA, either Bridges, Porter, Knox.  Adding that 3rd quality young player to grow with Tatum and Brown could be the difference between winning and losing a championship a few years down the line, especially if that player was SGA or a "healthy" Porter. 

[Tr1boy]

Simmons