Author Topic: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19  (Read 33167 times)

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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #210 on: December 21, 2019, 04:39:11 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #211 on: December 21, 2019, 06:46:54 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Brown after 26 games:

19.9 PPG
6.9 RPG
2.3 APG
1.2 SPG
50.4% FG%
37.7% 3PT%
76.1% FT%
60.3% TS%

Anyone else...besides me....predict this for Jaylen.
Thems All-Star numbers right there, especially when you also consider his excellent defense as well as his versatility on the defensive end.
Me, I was right beside you banging the Jaylen drum in the offseason :-[
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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #212 on: December 21, 2019, 08:35:15 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dLzfwE3ug
To be fair, this set of clips is not just his good highlights, but a few pretty bad turnovers by Fall too.  That said, I think you are overstating the case that he is 'less than nothing defensively'.  He had a nice block on Maker and his presence was felt.  I think it is unfair to judge him in garbage time minutes.  A rookie, coming off the bench in garbage time, being a side-show too boot,  can't possible be expected to be comfortable out there.  I maintain that he needs a few short stints before the game is decided.  A good coach can run post plays for him as a change-of-pace to throw off the defense.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #213 on: December 21, 2019, 08:43:11 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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the game was totally disorganized whatever ball that last five minutes Taco was out there .  It looked like pickup game in HS.

Taco needs to be in a half court organized set with guards like Smart , Waters and Hayward who know how tomoperate an offense.

Last five minutes was a joke on everybody , it was totally awful basketball.   Im not not hanging that on Tacko.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #214 on: December 21, 2019, 08:44:58 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dLzfwE3ug
To be fair, this set of clips is not just his good highlights, but a few pretty bad turnovers by Fall too.  That said, I think you are overstating the case that he is 'less than nothing defensively'.  He had a nice block on Maker and his presence was felt.  I think it is unfair to judge him in garbage time minutes.  A rookie, coming off the bench in garbage time, being a side-show too boot,  can't possible be expected to be comfortable out there.  I maintain that he needs a few short stints before the game is decided.  A good coach can run post plays for him as a change-of-pace to throw off the defense.
No...a good coach develops him in practice and in the G League and uses him in rotation minutes when he shows he can be a net positive. Tacko isn't there yet.

And it's not like Stevens is afraid to use rookies. He has always just used them when they are ready.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #215 on: December 21, 2019, 09:37:56 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dLzfwE3ug
To be fair, this set of clips is not just his good highlights, but a few pretty bad turnovers by Fall too.  That said, I think you are overstating the case that he is 'less than nothing defensively'.  He had a nice block on Maker and his presence was felt.  I think it is unfair to judge him in garbage time minutes.  A rookie, coming off the bench in garbage time, being a side-show too boot,  can't possible be expected to be comfortable out there.  I maintain that he needs a few short stints before the game is decided.  A good coach can run post plays for him as a change-of-pace to throw off the defense.
i agree with this. tacko has a long ways to go to get regular minutes early in a game. but he already has a few skills that would help in some situations on the court.

he is getting better too. his free throw shooting is improving. he now may have a little hook shot.

he was not pushed around on the court in the few minutes i saw of him. he may be thin, but he is still 310 pounds.

by next season i think he would be ready for 10 to 12 minutes a game. but with CBS' history of getting the most out of a player, who knows?

but, he should never ever dribble the ball up the court.  ;D
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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #216 on: December 21, 2019, 10:09:23 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.

So this is kind of awkward because essentially I think you are right, Fall is not ready and he has a ways to go to be ready. And thats okay, he's a two way guy and he's  already made some progress. I also think you're right that the Celtics are brining Fall along the right way, minutes in the G league, practice with the team occasionally, build his skills. No reason to give minutes he hasn't earned, and he has a ways to go before he does.

On the other hand I think you are somewhat overstating the extent of his struggles in this game and in general, because he did some okay stuff. I thought he moved his feet well for a 7 foot guy, let alone a 7'6 guy. He has some idea how to rim protect, he is stronger than you assert and is physical. He has SOME positives. If he didn't he wouldn't have beaten out Max Strus for the 2 way spot.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #217 on: December 21, 2019, 11:58:15 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Is Brown/Tatum the next coming of Durant/Westbrook and Curry/Thompson?

Stay tuned!!!


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I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #218 on: December 21, 2019, 12:45:53 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Tacko looked good tonight. He's improved since training camp.

Brad really ought to give Tacko some burn and I'm not tacking about Gino time.
I'm thinking 2 to 3 min at the end of the first or third quarters where games have not been decided yet. I believe Tacko can definitely help this team and his Defense on the PNR is decent enough I think.
I could not disagree with this more. I think Tacko looked awful out there. Even against the scrubs of other teams.

He couldn't jump high enough to dunk a ball. Looked a fool trying to dribble a ball 15 feet. Looked easily pushed around and showed less than nothing defensively.

His one good move was that turnaround baby hook he had for his first basket that showed a soft touch and decent footwork. But other than that he was very uncoordinated with terrible footwork. He had trouble getting position against noted super thin and easy to move unless you are Tacko, Thon Maker.

He basically showed he is nothing more at this time than a bad sideshow to use during Gino Time. Tacko being used during rotational time would be an unmitigated disaster, IMHO.

So this is kind of awkward because essentially I think you are right, Fall is not ready and he has a ways to go to be ready. And thats okay, he's a two way guy and he's  already made some progress. I also think you're right that the Celtics are brining Fall along the right way, minutes in the G league, practice with the team occasionally, build his skills. No reason to give minutes he hasn't earned, and he has a ways to go before he does.

On the other hand I think you are somewhat overstating the extent of his struggles in this game and in general, because he did some okay stuff. I thought he moved his feet well for a 7 foot guy, let alone a 7'6 guy. He has some idea how to rim protect, he is stronger than you assert and is physical. He has SOME positives. If he didn't he wouldn't have beaten out Max Strus for the 2 way spot.
Yes, agreed.  Interesting that you used the same term I did: overstated.  He has some skills and could be used in limited situations.  That said, I'll cry uncle nickagneta, and admit we are likely to only see him in garbage time for now.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #219 on: December 21, 2019, 01:30:24 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Is Brown/Tatum the next coming of Durant/Westbrook and Curry/Thompson?

Stay tuned!!!
I think a better comparison would be Paul Pierce with borderline elite defence and a bouncier+longer Jimmy Butler.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #220 on: December 22, 2019, 06:12:24 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Thoughts on the game after watching it in full (I missed it yesterday):

- The Celtics coaching staff tried to take advantage of the mismatch Brown had on Svi, which is very encouraging as it finally gave Brown a larger role on offence.

- Drummond looked very comfortable with the ball in his hands, his handle is really good for a big of his reputation. He might not be a great offensive big man, but his handle gives him some ability to create offence. His hands are also surprisingly quick - he guarded Kemba pretty well on switches due to his ability to poke the ball loose.

- Kanter's offensive rebounding is nuts, he wreaked havoc on the Pistons frontcourt that has the best defensive rebounding big in the league.

- Javonte Green looked decisive tonight, making basic reads with no hesitation and was a low-error player on both ends of the court. His athleticism and motor made him disruptive on defence and allowed him to pick up some easy baskets.

- Incredible game by Jaylen Brown. His scoring arsenal was on full display this game - a force off the dribble that is too strong for smalls, too explosive for wings and too fast for bigs that possesses a variety of spins, fakes, between the legs and crossovers to create separation for high quality looks, and his improved shooting makes him a threat from anywhere in the half court. His passing game has also made the jump I was hopeful of from his FIBA performance - he's an adequate playmaker who converts a good amount of simple reads to make defences pay for collapsing on him. He's still lacking when it comes to making advanced passes (I think he missed almost every advanced dish available), but the ability to make those simple reads to complement his already robust scoring game for a secondary/tertiary creator is already All-Star stuff when you take his defence into account.

- Tatum's scoring looked good. His inability to convert a worrying amount of basic passing looks is still annoying, but his shot creation has gotten better - he creates more separation for cleaner stepbacks and he has refined his dribble game off a DHO/PnR to keep his defender on his back for floaters/layups over the rim protector. His dribble moves to initiate drives look less premeditated as well.

- Theis had an amazing defensive night. His versatility showed its value - he was fast enough to play good help defence when Detroit's perimeter players got to the basket, but was long and bouncy enough to contest Detroit's bigs for some big time blocks. His horizontal game also shined in the game with him affecting the dribble penetration of Detroit's guards whenever he had to step out.

- Grant Williams will have a long career in the NBA. His positioning and IQ is veteran-like, giving us a number of good plays on both ends of the court by just being in the right place at the right time. The stuff he does is just so valuable for a team needing solid role players to support its stars - he knows where to go, what to do and when to execute on the court.

- Romeo showed flashes of potential. He has the potential to be a strong defensive guard/wing hybrid with his Tatum-like knack for getting deflections and his wingspan helping him poke the ball when his assignment is making a move every now and then. His awareness isn't there yet but it's to be expected for a rookie. The scoring looked nice - I was impressed by his drive off a Kanter DHO where he kept the defender on his back and used his handle and quickness to glide to the hoop to lay it up over Drummond, as well as the pro-hop step (is that what it's called?) to get past the help defence for an open floater in the short-mid (that was a veteran scoring move).

« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 06:21:43 AM by Somebody »
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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #221 on: December 22, 2019, 09:36:14 AM »

Offline LilRip

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- Drummond looked very comfortable with the ball in his hands, his handle is really good for a big of his reputation. He might not be a great offensive big man, but his handle gives him some ability to create offence. His hands are also surprisingly quick - he guarded Kemba pretty well on switches due to his ability to poke the ball loose.

I thought Drummond looked good too. He’s obviously not a primary scoring option, and on that Pistons team? He has too much responsibility.

Unpopular opinion: I’d trade Hayward + filler for Drummond. Maybe Hayward+Kanter for Drummond+shooter?

Beside shot creators like Kemba and Tatum, and even a playmaker like Smart, I think Drummond would suddenly look very good. I think his vision and passing ability will allow him to do well in CBS system too. And on D? He seems switchable. Maybe not for ultra quick PG’s but he can probably guard 3-5, which is pretty good imo.
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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #222 on: December 22, 2019, 09:51:40 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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- Drummond looked very comfortable with the ball in his hands, his handle is really good for a big of his reputation. He might not be a great offensive big man, but his handle gives him some ability to create offence. His hands are also surprisingly quick - he guarded Kemba pretty well on switches due to his ability to poke the ball loose.

I thought Drummond looked good too. He’s obviously not a primary scoring option, and on that Pistons team? He has too much responsibility.

Unpopular opinion: I’d trade Hayward + filler for Drummond. Maybe Hayward+Kanter for Drummond+shooter?

Beside shot creators like Kemba and Tatum, and even a playmaker like Smart, I think Drummond would suddenly look very good. I think his vision and passing ability will allow him to do well in CBS system too. And on D? He seems switchable. Maybe not for ultra quick PG’s but he can probably guard 3-5, which is pretty good imo.
The problem with Drummond is for all of his ball skills and passing he's not a good enough defensive player to justify his salary.

He's a special rebounder, but he just isn't a defensive difference maker beyond gobbling up misses. And on offense he still hurts you because he can't shoot, not even the 15 footer.

Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #223 on: December 22, 2019, 09:57:10 AM »

Offline Somebody

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- Drummond looked very comfortable with the ball in his hands, his handle is really good for a big of his reputation. He might not be a great offensive big man, but his handle gives him some ability to create offence. His hands are also surprisingly quick - he guarded Kemba pretty well on switches due to his ability to poke the ball loose.

I thought Drummond looked good too. He’s obviously not a primary scoring option, and on that Pistons team? He has too much responsibility.

Unpopular opinion: I’d trade Hayward + filler for Drummond. Maybe Hayward+Kanter for Drummond+shooter?

Beside shot creators like Kemba and Tatum, and even a playmaker like Smart, I think Drummond would suddenly look very good. I think his vision and passing ability will allow him to do well in CBS system too. And on D? He seems switchable. Maybe not for ultra quick PG’s but he can probably guard 3-5, which is pretty good imo.
I would be more open to that if Theis and Kanter didn't take his lunch money this game lol. Obviously I know that one game is a ridiculously minuscule sample size, but it doesn't bode well that Theis physically bodied Drummond on a number of plays and held his own in general. We're looking for a guy who could slow down behemoths like Embiid and Giannis, not get neutralised by the likes of Theis Theis Baby and Kanter.
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Re: Pistons (11-17) at Celtics (18-7) Game #26 12/20/19
« Reply #224 on: December 22, 2019, 10:13:45 AM »

Offline LilRip

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- Drummond looked very comfortable with the ball in his hands, his handle is really good for a big of his reputation. He might not be a great offensive big man, but his handle gives him some ability to create offence. His hands are also surprisingly quick - he guarded Kemba pretty well on switches due to his ability to poke the ball loose.

I thought Drummond looked good too. He’s obviously not a primary scoring option, and on that Pistons team? He has too much responsibility.

Unpopular opinion: I’d trade Hayward + filler for Drummond. Maybe Hayward+Kanter for Drummond+shooter?

Beside shot creators like Kemba and Tatum, and even a playmaker like Smart, I think Drummond would suddenly look very good. I think his vision and passing ability will allow him to do well in CBS system too. And on D? He seems switchable. Maybe not for ultra quick PG’s but he can probably guard 3-5, which is pretty good imo.
I would be more open to that if Theis and Kanter didn't take his lunch money this game lol. Obviously I know that one game is a ridiculously minuscule sample size, but it doesn't bode well that Theis physically bodied Drummond on a number of plays and held his own in general. We're looking for a guy who could slow down behemoths like Embiid and Giannis, not get neutralised by the likes of Theis Theis Baby and Kanter.

I see where you’re coming from but I think this is where role and team construction plays a part. I really don’t think Drummond can do well being a team’s best player, especially on offense. Kinda like Draymond. Draymond green looks less than average when he’s a team’s best player but looks amazing when there are other guys taking the lead.

So it’s one thing that Drummond isn’t the best scorer but there’s also the fact that Bruce Brown and Tony Snell are a faaaaaar cry from Kemba and Tatum. I don’t think the Pistons even have a playmaker, outside of Blake Griffin. Just a sad team overall
- LilRip