Author Topic: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?  (Read 4632 times)

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Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2019, 10:59:48 PM »

Online keevsnick

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I wouldn't totally hate it if Hayward left this summer and we upped the Jay's usage even further.

As long as Brad is coach, Hayward will not leave.

This will be like Manu Ginobili refusing to leave Pop and the Spurs til the very end.

Maybe, but I don't really believe that. Coaches are just one part of a complicated decision about where to play. Could easily see him leaving if the C's try to lowball his next contract.

Not saying I wnat hayward to leave, its always better to retain talent. And I think he'll likely pick up his option this summer anyway since there arent many good teams with cap space.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 11:01:14 PM »

Online mctyson

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Yes.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 11:43:44 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 11:46:37 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I’d like to think having Hayward will help us eliminate those “dry spells” on offense and give us a better chance against top teams, even if everyone’s scoring drops a few points.

PS Congrats on 2000 posts

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 11:47:58 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I’d like to think having Hayward will help us more against good teams, even if everyone’s scoring drops a few points.

PS Congrats on 2000 posts

Thanks!

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 11:49:52 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I’d like to think having Hayward will help us eliminate those “dry spells” on offense and give us a better change against top teams, even if everyone’s scoring drops a few points.

PS Congrats on 2000 posts

If Smart plays like the way he played against the Nuggets, in Boston, I think it's good for everybody.

We really don't need Smart jacking up a lot of questionable shots.

Celtic offense was really smooth before Hayward got injured.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2019, 12:37:15 AM »

Offline ozgod

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I was curious because people always say this as a negative effect to a key player coming back - that they will take shots and opportunities away from the other guys. So I checked. Here are the FGAs of our top 6 wing/ball handler players in FGA. I averaged their FGA pre- and post-Hayward injury.



Note these averages are based on games played in.

Hayward was averaging 13.8 FGA in 8 games before his injury, well below Tatum and Kemba and around the same as Jaylen. Jaylen goes from 13.4 FGA to 15.8 FGA in Hayward's absence, and the pre-Hayward numbers are probably skewed by the fact that he stumbled a bit coming into the season and only played 5 games with Gordon. Tatum's FGA hasn't changed, he's averaged 18 all the way through. Kemba's has actually dropped from 18.3 to 16.5 (skewed by his Denver game where he got injured). I suspect if you look at minutes played (which I could, I was a bit lazy to put it in a spreadsheet but I can if people are interested) their numbers won't be all that different pre- and post-Hayward injury.

The increase is more marked in the players who have benefited the most from Gordon's absence - Smart, Wanamaker and Semi, and guys like Edwards and GWill to a lesser extent. Smart goes from 9.5 to 11.3, Wanamaker from 2.9 to 6.3, and Semi from 1 to 3.3. I'm sure if I looked at some of the other guys who benefited from those minutes, you'll see their FGA up as well.

Our top 4 shooters are (in rough FGA order) Tatum, Kemba, Brown and Hayward. They're going to get their shots up. I don't see any reason that would change because Gordon's coming back. I don't think any of those guys will be thinking "oh noes! my FGA is going to go down because G is coming back to take some of them". I think they'll be thinking "with G back I'm going to get better looks because a) he's unselfish and has a pass-first mentality and b) he knows how to drive and find the open man".

It's going to be the supporting guys, Wanamaker, Smart, Semi, among others, who will probably find some minutes squeezed and consequently will probably see a drop in their shots. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is.

PS Gratz on your 2000  :laugh:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 12:42:50 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2019, 12:59:36 AM »

Online keevsnick

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I was curious because people always say this as a negative effect to a key player coming back - that they will take shots and opportunities away from the other guys. So I checked. Here are the FGAs of our top 6 wing/ball handler players in FGA. I averaged their FGA pre- and post-Hayward injury.



Note these averages are based on games played in.

Hayward was averaging 13.8 FGA in 8 games before his injury, well below Tatum and Kemba and around the same as Jaylen. Jaylen goes from 13.4 FGA to 15.8 FGA in Hayward's absence, and the pre-Hayward numbers are probably skewed by the fact that he stumbled a bit coming into the season and only played 5 games with Gordon. Tatum's FGA hasn't changed, he's averaged 18 all the way through. Kemba's has actually dropped from 18.3 to 16.5 (skewed by his Denver game where he got injured). I suspect if you look at minutes played (which I could, I was a bit lazy to put it in a spreadsheet but I can if people are interested) their numbers won't be all that different pre- and post-Hayward injury.

The increase is more marked in the players who have benefited the most from Gordon's absence - Smart, Wanamaker and Semi, and guys like Edwards and GWill to a lesser extent. Smart goes from 9.5 to 11.3, Wanamaker from 2.9 to 6.3, and Semi from 1 to 3.3. I'm sure if I looked at some of the other guys who benefited from those minutes, you'll see their FGA up as well.

Our top 4 shooters are (in rough FGA order) Tatum, Kemba, Brown and Hayward. They're going to get their shots up. I don't see any reason that would change because Gordon's coming back. I don't think any of those guys will be thinking "oh noes! my FGA is going to go down because G is coming back to take some of them". I think they'll be thinking "with G back I'm going to get better looks because a) he's unselfish and has a pass-first mentality and b) he knows how to drive and find the open man".

It's going to be the supporting guys, Wanamaker, Smart, Semi, among others, who will probably find some minutes squeezed and consequently will probably see a drop in their shots. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is.

PS Gratz on your 2000  :laugh:

Yeah its hard to draw really any conclusion regarding Browns FG attempts with/without hayward, the sample is too small. That first game he was in foul trouble literally the entirely game and then the other low FG game was his first back after the sickness. The other three hayward games were fairly high volume.

I tend to agree, its gonna be more bench guys who lose chances like and give how those guys have struggled offensively that will help this this team a lot.


Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2019, 06:02:48 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Like others, I want to involve Hayward (this season's version) in the mix. There are things other teams have that the Celtics don't. There isn't a team that has as many scoring options as the Celtics with the dynamic duo, Hayward and Kemba on the court. All the centres score too and Smart seems to be having his best shooting season (happy for some stats fan to prove me wrong but it 'seems' that way). Even Semi has improved his shot.

I want to say I am allowing myself the optimism that includes the Celtics in a short list of teams I believe have a chance to win it all this season.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2019, 07:27:29 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It has only just begun, too.  I think they will continue to improve.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2019, 07:42:36 AM »

Offline Fierce1

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The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I was curious because people always say this as a negative effect to a key player coming back - that they will take shots and opportunities away from the other guys. So I checked. Here are the FGAs of our top 6 wing/ball handler players in FGA. I averaged their FGA pre- and post-Hayward injury.



Note these averages are based on games played in.

Hayward was averaging 13.8 FGA in 8 games before his injury, well below Tatum and Kemba and around the same as Jaylen. Jaylen goes from 13.4 FGA to 15.8 FGA in Hayward's absence, and the pre-Hayward numbers are probably skewed by the fact that he stumbled a bit coming into the season and only played 5 games with Gordon. Tatum's FGA hasn't changed, he's averaged 18 all the way through. Kemba's has actually dropped from 18.3 to 16.5 (skewed by his Denver game where he got injured). I suspect if you look at minutes played (which I could, I was a bit lazy to put it in a spreadsheet but I can if people are interested) their numbers won't be all that different pre- and post-Hayward injury.

The increase is more marked in the players who have benefited the most from Gordon's absence - Smart, Wanamaker and Semi, and guys like Edwards and GWill to a lesser extent. Smart goes from 9.5 to 11.3, Wanamaker from 2.9 to 6.3, and Semi from 1 to 3.3. I'm sure if I looked at some of the other guys who benefited from those minutes, you'll see their FGA up as well.

Our top 4 shooters are (in rough FGA order) Tatum, Kemba, Brown and Hayward. They're going to get their shots up. I don't see any reason that would change because Gordon's coming back. I don't think any of those guys will be thinking "oh noes! my FGA is going to go down because G is coming back to take some of them". I think they'll be thinking "with G back I'm going to get better looks because a) he's unselfish and has a pass-first mentality and b) he knows how to drive and find the open man".

It's going to be the supporting guys, Wanamaker, Smart, Semi, among others, who will probably find some minutes squeezed and consequently will probably see a drop in their shots. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is.

PS Gratz on your 2000  :laugh:

Yeah its hard to draw really any conclusion regarding Browns FG attempts with/without hayward, the sample is too small. That first game he was in foul trouble literally the entirely game and then the other low FG game was his first back after the sickness. The other three hayward games were fairly high volume.

I tend to agree, its gonna be more bench guys who lose chances like and give how those guys have struggled offensively that will help this this team a lot.

I agree it's a small sample size.

But ozgod's data showed Brown went from 13.4 FGA, before Hayward got hurt, to 15.8 FGA after Hayward got hurt.

Reason why I think Jaylen will get lesser shot attempts is Jaylen will also get lesser minutes once Hayward returns.

It will be Jaylen and Smart who will be greatly affected by Hayward's return.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2019, 08:23:01 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I feel like Hayward will no issue being on this team long term and agree that as long as Brad is here he’ll want to stay - where could it get better with two great young developing wings, Boston fans, a great front office. I hope Hayward becomes our next John Havlicek type player, the perfect compliment to Tatum and Brown.

My biggest fear honestly, is that Ainge will short sell the impact of Tatum and Brown, Kemba and Gordy by Absolutely refusing to put enough quality big men in the front court. He’ll short sell the impact of this group of player by letting us get pounded nightly inside.

This last draft I was hoping for a Goga Bidatze, Brandon Clarke, Daniel Gifford type draft. Maybe this year he’ll finally draft some big men.

I like Langford, Williams and Edwards and think they’ll all get there as good role players (perhaps more) but for God sakes can we please shore up the front court? We would be so dominant if we did - we’d have all the pieces...

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2019, 08:35:41 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Quote
"As I've said many times this year, our five best players are really clear. Everything we do has got to be focused around complementing them and maximizing them."

- Brad Stevens after last nights game

I think all those guys will get their shots. The hierarchy is much clearer this year with no Kyrie/Rozier/Morris. If anyone loses shots or opportunities, it’s going to be the guys off the bench. I think the Jays, Kemba, and Gordo are gonna get theirs.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2019, 08:41:54 AM »

Offline cman88

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when Hayward returns, we will be even better. 4 guys averaging 20ppg.

People are forgetting how amazing he was playing before his fractured hand. Our offense has taken somewhat of a hit missing his passing.

Re: Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2019, 08:50:31 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Will love the Tatum / Brown era even BETTER once we get our Aircraft Carrier (Gordon Hayward) back....

Tatum and Brown are our Cruisers....young, powerful, fast and helps protect that Carrier.

Kemba is our Destroyer - sleek, silent BUT deadly - can sit off in the background but STILL affect a game in MANY ways.

Smart is our Marine...our GRUNT...doing the Dirty Work.

The Bench is our Sub Force...don't see them often but when they do appear they make an impact.

Boy once this Strike Group gets ALL ITS ASSETS back we will be quite powerful.
CELTICSSTRONG HISTORICAL DRAFT 2019 MIA HEAT:
C - SHAQUILLE O'NEAL / ARVYDAS SABONIS / NATE T.
PF -CHRIS WEBBER / NATE THURMOND/ BOBBY
       JONES
SF - PAUL GEORGE  / DETLEF SHREMPF
SG - DWYANE WADE / MANU GINOBILI
PG - JERRY WEST / RICKY PIERCE / MARCUS SMART