Taking stock of the Celtics bench

[hwangjini_1]

So at almost the quarter point of the year I though it might be interesting to take stock of the second unit. For the sake of this discussion I consider Kemba, Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Theis as starters.Yes I know thats six guys, but they've all started more than half the games they'v played. I will also leave out Fall, Waters and Langford who we simply havent seen enough to make an informed opinion about. So, whats your overall grade for second unit performance and how would you power rank the remaining players. My ranking with grades (relative to reasonable expectations).

Bonus: If you could add one player type (ex: rim protector) to the bench, what would if be?

Wanamaker- A
-50/40/90 splist with about 8 points a game. A soid back up PG who is effeicinet and big enough to be slid defensively. Seesm to get to the line a decent amount.

G Will- B-
-Can't hit a three, but arguably been our best defensive option on the seocnd unit. Good passer, has made some big plays late. If he just hits his threes he will be a valuble player long term , think PJ Tucker.

RWIII- B-
-Makes some astounding playes, puts heavy pressure on the rim adding a differnet dynamic on offense which I think legitmtately helps the offense. Needs to get smarter on defense and cut out silly mistakes, but also makes plays nobody else can make.
 
Kanter- C+
-Bad on defense, like really bad, but in the right match up provides offensive rebounding that can bail out bad offense.

Semi- C+
-Seems to be hitting shots more recently, prrobably overated on defense but still good on that end. 3+D rotation player?

Green- C
-Has flashed some skills.

Edwards- D
-If he's not hitting shots he doesnt do much, and he hasnt been hitting shots. Hope that chnages.

VP -D
-Last man on the bench right now.

Bonus: I would add a elite spot up shooter type. Just somebody to fire away, provide spacing.

i checked the stats of our very own Jesusemilore Talodabijesu Ojeleye after reading this, and yes, he actually has been a bit better on offense as of late. (but then again, how could he not be?    )

he is averaging about 4.9 points a game in his past 5 games.

in his last 4 games, he is shooting 4 for 11 from 3 point land.  we can all dream. 

[moiso]

So at almost the quarter point of the year I though it might be interesting to take stock of the second unit. For the sake of this discussion I consider Kemba, Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Theis as starters.Yes I know thats six guys, but they've all started more than half the games they'v played. I will also leave out Fall, Waters and Langford who we simply havent seen enough to make an informed opinion about. So, whats your overall grade for second unit performance and how would you power rank the remaining players. My ranking with grades (relative to reasonable expectations).

Bonus: If you could add one player type (ex: rim protector) to the bench, what would if be?

Wanamaker- A
-50/40/90 splist with about 8 points a game. A soid back up PG who is effeicinet and big enough to be slid defensively. Seesm to get to the line a decent amount.

G Will- B-
-Can't hit a three, but arguably been our best defensive option on the seocnd unit. Good passer, has made some big plays late. If he just hits his threes he will be a valuble player long term , think PJ Tucker.

RWIII- B-
-Makes some astounding playes, puts heavy pressure on the rim adding a differnet dynamic on offense which I think legitmtately helps the offense. Needs to get smarter on defense and cut out silly mistakes, but also makes plays nobody else can make.
 
Kanter- C+
-Bad on defense, like really bad, but in the right match up provides offensive rebounding that can bail out bad offense.

Semi- C+
-Seems to be hitting shots more recently, prrobably overated on defense but still good on that end. 3+D rotation player?

Green- C
-Has flashed some skills.

Edwards- D
-If he's not hitting shots he doesnt do much, and he hasnt been hitting shots. Hope that chnages.

VP -D
-Last man on the bench right now.

Bonus: I would add a elite spot up shooter type. Just somebody to fire away, provide spacing.

i checked the stats of our very own Jesusemilore Talodabijesu Ojeleye after reading this, and yes, he actually has been a bit better on offense as of late. (but then again, how could he not be?    )

he is averaging about 4.9 points a game in his past 5 games.

in his last 4 games, he is shooting 4 for 11 from 3 point land.  we can all dream. 

He should have gotten a few player of the week votes with those crazy numbers

[IDreamCeltics]

GWilliams - D: He started out nicely, but the last month, we're basically playing 4 on 5 when he's on the court. He can't guard anyone who has length or quickness, and his shooting is beyond atrocious, less than 20% since early November. His only real value atm is setting screens. His lack of height shows when he's trying to rebound against the taller teams. Not worried long term, he's a super smart guy who'll find his place, and he'll start making the open 3s.

I really don't think this is true.  He has struggled to score but he's fit in really nicely so long as he's in lineups that feature multiple scorers.  His individual and team defense has been very good, to my eyes, and the numbers back that up.

In 245 minutes so far this year, the Celts have a 107.1 offensive rating with Grant on the floor.  That's not too bad.

Defensively, the team has a 99.4 rating with Grant on the floor.  That's very good.

Williams is shooting 0-22 from 3 for the season, his overall fg% is .26 if you round UP.  He's Jared Sullinger with less talent (if that's even possible).  I like the kid, but his NBA career is half over already. 

[Moranis]

The bench is very bad especially if you don't include Smart (which I didn't in my grade since he has been starting so much).  It is very young and not very talented. 

[Scottiej23]

GWilliams - D: He started out nicely, but the last month, we're basically playing 4 on 5 when he's on the court. He can't guard anyone who has length or quickness, and his shooting is beyond atrocious, less than 20% since early November. His only real value atm is setting screens. His lack of height shows when he's trying to rebound against the taller teams. Not worried long term, he's a super smart guy who'll find his place, and he'll start making the open 3s.

I really don't think this is true.  He has struggled to score but he's fit in really nicely so long as he's in lineups that feature multiple scorers.  His individual and team defense has been very good, to my eyes, and the numbers back that up.

In 245 minutes so far this year, the Celts have a 107.1 offensive rating with Grant on the floor.  That's not too bad.

Defensively, the team has a 99.4 rating with Grant on the floor.  That's very good.

Williams is shooting 0-22 from 3 for the season, his overall fg% is .26 if you round UP.  He's Jared Sullinger with less talent (if that's even possible).  I like the kid, but his NBA career is half over already.

So you think he'll be cut by about the half way mark of the season and never play in the NBA again?

[gouki88]

GWilliams - D: He started out nicely, but the last month, we're basically playing 4 on 5 when he's on the court. He can't guard anyone who has length or quickness, and his shooting is beyond atrocious, less than 20% since early November. His only real value atm is setting screens. His lack of height shows when he's trying to rebound against the taller teams. Not worried long term, he's a super smart guy who'll find his place, and he'll start making the open 3s.

I really don't think this is true.  He has struggled to score but he's fit in really nicely so long as he's in lineups that feature multiple scorers.  His individual and team defense has been very good, to my eyes, and the numbers back that up.

In 245 minutes so far this year, the Celts have a 107.1 offensive rating with Grant on the floor.  That's not too bad.

Defensively, the team has a 99.4 rating with Grant on the floor.  That's very good.

Williams is shooting 0-22 from 3 for the season, his overall fg% is .26 if you round UP.  He's Jared Sullinger with less talent (if that's even possible).  I like the kid, but his NBA career is half over already.

Ridiculous once more

[action781]

I graded them an A.

I'm looking at the team's collective success here.  Look at these facts 19 games into this season:
-Gordon Hayward has missed 11 of 19 games
-Kemba is shooting 40.2% from the field and Tatum is shooting 41.1% from the field this season
-Kanter has missed 7 games and Theis has missed 3 games

If you had told me those facts in mid October... I'd have told you that the Celtics would probably have an 8-11 record.  But we're 14-5. 

Smart (one of our bench players) has stepped up big time into the temporary starting role and Wanamaker has performed fantastically as the first guard off the bench.  Semi and GW have given us solid minutes backing up the forward positions.  Whoever is called on to play in the frontcourt out of Theis/Kanter/Robert Williams in any given night has been productive for the most part and 2/3 of those players are bench players.

Having the league's 6th best defense is the driver behind our 14-5 record.  Several of our starters have played outstanding individual and team defense so far this season.  But one weak link in an NBA defense can be exploited repeatedly.  Kanter has been that weak link a bit, but his extra possessions generated through offensive rebounding has offset that IMO.  Other than him, our bench players have stepped right into the team defensive schemes almost seamlessly.  That has been and will be a key to our long term success this season.

[Celtics4ever]

I think that our bench has lack of scoring issues and gave them a C+, I don't see how folks are giving them an A?  Given that they can't buy a bucket at times.

Injuries are part of the NBA.    A lot of our bench guys have glaring faults.   

Timelord has played decent.   He does have an occasional brainfart but he is a human hightlight film.   Overall, a nice little jump of improvement.

Grant Williams sometimes plays well and sometimes does not.   He lacks size but has a nose for the ball.   I don't share the irrational displays that he is going to be a future starter.  Offensively, he is the second coming of Chuck Hayes right now.  Guys think he could be a bigger version of Smart but he does play with the same reckless abandon that Marcus does making all those special plays.   Lacks run and jump athleticism, but is strong.    His shooting is horrible.  In the right play on defense, but can be posted up easily.   I am ok with him at PF but he is too small to play five effectively.

Edwards has been hot or cold all season mainly cold though.

Wannamaker has been solid but if he is one your best bench guys isn't your bench in trouble

Green, great athlete but also hot or cold, and people are irrational just because he dunks well.   You say he has skills what praytell are those skills?   He is an athlete who can get the basketball and slice to rim.   I don't see superlative skills that you claim.

Poirer is a disappointment from what we have seen so far.

Semi- Shaky at first, solid as of late.   You can his confidence ebbs and flows.  Under rated defender on this board.

Smart a great sixth man who can impact a game in a lot of ways.   His shot was good earlier but has returned to old form sadly as of late.  Wish the could maintain his shooting.

So as one can see we don't have many solid complete players on our bench.   Some games they are hot and some they are not.    But if Smart went down we would be playing 4 on 5 in terms of talent with the other team.   No bench is solid, but some guys here are acting like we have a team of Hondos waiting to come in and save us when that certainly is not the case.

That being said, I like our team.    I want everyone of our guys to do well.  I like these bench of guys because they generally try hard every night and fight.   I can live with some shortcomings because the effort is there.

[Csfan1984]

Health and rotation is more of a factor in the guys' performances. So instead of a D+ I'd give them a full letter bump of C+ for their efforts. Still feel team could do better relying more on starters and less bench minutes as a lot of these guys aren't ready. Hurry back Hayward and DA needs to make a trade.

[Surferdad]

I think that our bench has lack of scoring issues and gave them a C+, I don't see how folks are giving them an A?  Given that they can't buy a bucket at times.

Injuries are part of the NBA.    A lot of our bench guys have glaring faults.   

Timelord has played decent.   He does have an occasional brainfart but he is a human hightlight film.   Overall, a nice little jump of improvement.

Grant Williams sometimes plays well and sometimes does not.   He lacks size but has a nose for the ball.   I don't share the irrational displays that he is going to be a future starter.  Offensively, he is the second coming of Chuck Hayes right now.  Guys think he could be a bigger version of Smart but he does play with the same reckless abandon that Marcus does making all those special plays.   Lacks run and jump athleticism, but is strong.    His shooting is horrible.  In the right play on defense, but can be posted up easily.   I am ok with him at PF but he is too small to play five effectively.

Edwards has been hot or cold all season mainly cold though.

Wannamaker has been solid but if he is one your best bench guys isn't your bench in trouble

Green, great athlete but also hot or cold, and people are irrational just because he dunks well.   You say he has skills what praytell are those skills?   He is an athlete who can get the basketball and slice to rim.   I don't see superlative skills that you claim.

Poirer is a disappointment from what we have seen so far.

Semi- Shaky at first, solid as of late.   You can his confidence ebbs and flows.  Under rated defender on this board.

Smart a great sixth man who can impact a game in a lot of ways.   His shot was good earlier but has returned to old form sadly as of late.  Wish the could maintain his shooting.

So as one can see we don't have many solid complete players on our bench.   Some games they are hot and some they are not.    But if Smart went down we would be playing 4 on 5 in terms of talent with the other team.   No bench is solid, but some guys here are acting like we have a team of Hondos waiting to come in and save us when that certainly is not the case.

That being said, I like our team.    I want everyone of our guys to do well.  I like these bench of guys because they generally try hard every night and fight.   I can live with some shortcomings because the effort is there.

Pretty good overall take on the bench.  TP.

[timpiker]

Compared to most other teams' benches?  Our sucks.

[droopdog7]

I don’t have the numbers but I feel like the team generally holds its own when we start going to the bench.  That’s what really matters.  So in that respect, I’d give them a B/B+.

[keevsnick]

So I went and checked out the bench stats on NBA.com. Interestingly the bench is second to last in points scored per game at 27.8. However the bench  plus/minus is 9th in the league at +1.1 (I assume that's per bench player per game). That probably means that the "bench" scoring is being anchored by the starters playing with a given bench unit which makes sense given that Brad has tried to play two starters with the bench at most times. I think it also indicates that the bench is likely doing a solid job defensively.

[ETNCeltics]

So I went and checked out the bench stats on NBA.com. Interestingly the bench is second to last in points scored per game at 27.8. However the bench  plus/minus is 9th in the league at +1.1 (I assume that's per bench player per game). That probably means that the "bench" scoring is being anchored by the starters playing with a given bench unit which makes sense given that Brad has tried to play two starters with the bench at most times. I think it also indicates that the bench is likely doing a solid job defensively.

Some of Tatum's best runs of the season have been where he's on the floor with 4 reserves. That's when he was really going off on the LAC (before Brad benched him even though he was sizzling).

[keevsnick]

So I went and checked out the bench stats on NBA.com. Interestingly the bench is second to last in points scored per game at 27.8. However the bench  plus/minus is 9th in the league at +1.1 (I assume that's per bench player per game). That probably means that the "bench" scoring is being anchored by the starters playing with a given bench unit which makes sense given that Brad has tried to play two starters with the bench at most times. I think it also indicates that the bench is likely doing a solid job defensively.

Some of Tatum's best runs of the season have been where he's on the floor with 4 reserves. That's when he was really going off on the LAC (before Brad benched him even though he was sizzling).

Ya a lot of his very good  plus minus has been built up running with he second unit in the early second quarter.