Knicks (1-4) at Celtics (3-1) Game #5 11/1/19

[gouki88]

Where was the 8 second call there?

It didn't hit 15. They have to wait until the shot clock hits 15 to ensure they get the full 8 seconds before crossing the half line.

It's 16. 15 would be 9 seconds.

No, I'm sure the practice for the refs is that they wait until as soon as it hits 15 on the shot clock. The logic is then that gives them the full 8 seconds to cross over. If they called it as soon as it hit 16, then it wouldn't be the full 8 seconds, but somewhere between 7 and 8 seconds.

To further this point because I think it's interesting and something that many people don't realize about the rules, see the videos below:

https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/8-second-violation/

https://nesn.com/2013/05/nbas-seemingly-contradictory-shot-clock-eight-second-violation-rule-really-not-that-complicated/

One thing that apparently is far more confusing than it should be, however, is the eight-second violation and its relationship to the 24-second shot clock. Announcers and fans are constantly getting hung up on this one little detail, as though it is rocket science. Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr were befuddled for a good two minutes during Game 2 of the Heat-Pacers series, throwing into doubt the value of a UCLA or Arizona education.

The rule in question, in case it’s not your job to watch every moment of every NBA playoff game, is at what point on the shot clock referees are supposed to blow the whistle when the offensive team fails to get the ball over halfcourt in eight seconds. Subtraction dictates that this occurs when the shot clock reads :16. Simple. Twenty-four minus eight equals 16. Right?

Wrong.

This has thrown many a color analyst for a loop. Miller in particular cannot wrap his head around the idea that the eight-second violation occurs when the shot clock reads :15, not :16. At first, the wrinkle might seem contradictory. Seriously, though, it’s not that hard to understand.

If you have ever used a stopwatch, or wear a $14.99 Casio because you’re a cheapskate like me, you probably already get the concept. Hit “start” on the watch. Does the timer immediately go to :01? Of course not. If the watch has tenths or hundredths of a second, it counts upward. The seconds place reads :00 until 99 one-hundredths of a second becomes a full second. So when the timer reads :00.9, we know it is closer to :01 than :00, even though the seconds place is all zeroes.

The countdown clock on the shot clock works the same way, only backwards. For the first 19 seconds of the possession, the shot clock posts only full seconds. When there are 16 seconds on the shot clock, there are actually 16 seconds plus a few tenths. If the refs called an eight-second violation as soon as the clock hit :16, they would actually be whistling the play dead at :16.9 — robbing the offensive team of almost a full second.

In the final five seconds of the shot clock, tenths of a second get added. Again, think of the stopwatch. If the players, officials, coaches and fans could not read tenths of a second at the end of the clock, the shot clock would read :00 for a full second before the buzzer sounded. Instead, we see the timer count down in tenths of a second to ultimate zero, :00.00. Knowing how many tenths of a second are on the clock is vital, so a team knows whether it has enough time for a shot or just a tip-in attempt.

I'm not arguing against you - in fact, you're quite provably right.

But I did get quite a good chuckle out of Lowry being called for an 8 seconds when the clock hit 16 in maybe the first game of the season

[Green-18]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

[Fierce1]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

[Fierce1]

It's looking like Poirier is not an NBA player.

His basketball abilities is limited.

He's big and athletic, but that's about it.
You have to be more than that to succeed in the NBA.

[RockinRyA]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

Of course, because their rotation is cut short with injuries! If kemba and Marcus arent available for this game, are you gonna tell me that their PG rotation is weak for this game and it cost them?

Why look for negative when 1) it didnt matter in the end and 2) the circumstances is beyond their control?

[Fierce1]

The rebounding and lack of a quality big man is a legit concern.

But we all know heading into the season that's the Celts' weakness.

Ainge has time to address the problem.

Celts just need to win as many games as they can until Ainge can find a solution.

[saltlover]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

Enes Kanter has been in the top 3 of offensive rebounding percentage in each of the last 5 seasons, and has led the category twice.  He is arguably the best offensive rebounder in the NBA.  Maybe let him get healthy and play a few games before you decry the lack of offensive rebounds in particular and the center rotation in general.  The best answer to this problem is already on the team.

[liam]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

Who would you ship out to match a salary of a top center?

[liam]

Cheer up! C's won!

It was an excellent win in what was clearly a trap game. Last year i would've been very worried about this one but I was calm through out because this team just seems to find away. My wife was convinced this was going to overtime but I kept telling her that this years team was different and they would close it out!

[gouki88]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

You repeatedly bring up Celtics and Cavs trades, without giving reasonable trade ideas. Unless you want to give up Smart for TT or Hayward for Kevin Love, which in my mind are both bad bad ideas, I struggle to see how it's possible.

[liam]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

You repeatedly bring up Celtics and Cavs trades, without giving reasonable trade ideas. Unless you want to give up Smart for TT or Hayward for Kevin Love, which in my mind are both bad bad ideas, I struggle to see how it's possible.

We could make a trade for a low paid player like Noel but you are right we don't have the salaries to match for a highly paid center. I can't find any center that could really be a trade target and an upgrade in our price range. I would love to see some realistic trade ideas.

[Kuberski33]

I thought that was a really good win considering that the Celtics were minus Jaylen and 2 of their 5's and the Knicks really showed up tonight.  They competed all night and Morris went for 30, so losing this one would not have been out of the question. 

But I think the focus on the 5 position here is a bit misguided at this point in time. 

That they were in trouble at the 4 -5 became a reality the minute Al announced he wasn't coming back.

So they're trying to get by with a 3 or 4 headed center combination - and really had no other choice.  None of them are complete players, but the first 3 all have useful NBA skills, and Brad should figure out how to get the best out of all of them.

Plus it's way too early to judge Poirier. He came here as a developmental project and while he hasn't lit the world on fire he also hasn't looked lost on the court.   

To me, the far bigger issue is lack of 3 point shooting off the bench. Edwards is shooting 22% so far and G. Williams has made ZERO 3's for the season. 

And that's a problem - though one that may not affect wins and losses till later on in the season because right now it's in their interest to give Hayward/Tatum/Kemba/Jaylen/Smart a lot of minutes because they need to figure out how to play together.

Plus their 'depth' at PG - Wannamaker - is throwing the ball away.  Those are issues that will cost you wins vs good teams.  This is looking like a team with 5 core guys, 3 limited skill guys in the middle and not enough guard or 3 point shooting depth.

[Fierce1]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

Who would you ship out to match a salary of a top center?

Kanter, Theis, Poirier, Semi, Wanamaker, and Langford are available.

That's around 18.65m right there.

Celts can trade 4 among the 6 players I listed.

[Fierce1]

Celtics have the worst Center rotation in the NBA. Totally ruined on the boards almost cost them this game.

Seriously? You have 2 rotation guys at that position injured, both of whom are two of their best rebounders. You lot keep on finding stupid things to complain about.

They just gave up 16 offensive rebounds and got 3. On this night, in this game, under these circumstances their Center rotation is terribly weak. It almost cost them this game.

But the Celts made up for it by going 27-29 from the FT line.

That's why I keep saying, Celts still need an upgrade.

Ainge will make a move in a couple of months.

It will be interesting to see how the Center position plays out.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a trade.  My gut tells me that Ainge will end up waiting for the buyout market.

The buyout market will not be good enough.

Last season the Raptors would not have gone to the finals if they didn't trade for Marc Gasol.

Ainge will be in a position to do the same thing.

Celts still have lots of assets to use in a trade.

Next game for the Celts is against the Cavs.
We'll be seeing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson.
I think the Celts and Cavs can be trade partners.

You repeatedly bring up Celtics and Cavs trades, without giving reasonable trade ideas. Unless you want to give up Smart for TT or Hayward for Kevin Love, which in my mind are both bad bad ideas, I struggle to see how it's possible.

We could make a trade for a low paid player like Noel but you are right we don't have the salaries to match for a highly paid center. I can't find any center that could really be a trade target and an upgrade in our price range. I would love to see some realistic trade ideas.

Tristan Thompson's salary is 18.5m.

Celts have 6 players they can trade for him.

Kanter - 4.7m
Theis - 5m
Langford - 3.45m
Poirier - 2.5m
Semi - 1.6m
Wanamaker - 1.4m

Total - 18.65m

Celts can trade 4 among the 6 players to make the trade for Tristan work.

[Somebody]

Jayson Tatum just has the mentality of a superstar player.

Marcus Smart has the same mentality, but Smart doesn't have the shot-making abilities of Tatum.

That's the difference between Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, Tatum has the mentality of a star player, Brown doesn't.

LOL I love these talks about "clutchness". There's a reason why the Celtics are paying Jaylen like a superstar fam.