Patriots 2019 Season

[gouki88]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

He is 42.  It is over.  If they beat the Titans, they won't realistically get by the Chiefs, but let's just say Mahomes is injured early in the game and they get by the Chiefs, they aren't winning in Baltimore so they have to hope the Ravens lose and they get a better matchup, like say the Bills go on a miracle run.  They then would have to beat one of the juggernauts in the NFC.  It isn't happening and given Brady is 42 and has looked awful much of the year, the run is over.  They are done being a contender with Brady under center.  Father time has arrived and he is undefeated.

Given that he's had a worse season than this one and then gone on to win the Superbowl the very next season, I think it's premature to try and call it quits before he does.

This is Brady's worst season in his career in many meaningful metrics.  Now sure early on the Patriots were run-centric and didn't pass nearly as much, but Brady never had a 9 game stretch with a passer rating under 100 at any time in his career until this season.  He has the lowest TD% in his career.  His yards/attempt is the 2nd worst of his career.  He hasn't had this few yards in a full season in a decade (2010) when he had 36 TD's and just 4 INT's. 

HE IS 42.  You don't get better when you are his age you only get worse and this is Brady's worst season in his career (the only real argument for a worse season is 2002 when Brady was 25).  And this didn't just arise out of the blue, Brady has statistically been getting worse in each of the last 4 seasons.  It was more subtle than this year, but this has been the trend for awhile. 

I get wanting to hold on to hope and being optimistic, but that is just setting you up for heartbreak.  The Patriots are done as a contender with Brady.  The run was a lot longer than anyone could have reasonably anticipated, but it had to happen eventually and that time is now.

It might well be. I'm just saying that I don't think it's smart to say it's over until Brady is retired / elsewhere. Almost innumerable analysts and talking heads have made this statement for the last 6 years, and it has not once been true yet.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White (who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

Are you saying White didn't play well this season? It seems to me that it was instead a case of the team not utilizing him as much as they should have. I kept thinking they should be going to him more often in the short-passing game.

I'm never counting out the GOAT duo until the very end. It's a bit weird we have such a skeptical fanbase after seeing the possibly most improbable dynasty in sports history. It's almost as if we like eating crow. If Eli Manning and the derping Giants could go on that ridiculous Super Bowl run as wild cards twice, anything could happen.

Very good point. Maybe we'll get a helmet catch of our own this year!

[PhoSita]

It might well be. I'm just saying that I don't think it's smart to say it's over until Brady is retired / elsewhere. Almost innumerable analysts and talking heads have made this statement for the last 6 years, and it has not once been true yet.

My prediction would be that Brady and the Pats stick together until Brady finally retires a couple years from now, all the while doing this dance where each side makes it look like it could end at any time.  I think the Krafts will do anything they possibly can to keep Brady in a Pats jersey forever.

I'm just not convinced it's actually the best thing for either side, at this point. 

The Pats would be better off making a commitment to somebody who can be with the team and grow for several years, without questions of whether he's going to retire or leave at the end of the season. 

Brady would be better off on a team that is better stocked on offense so that he doesn't need to do as much.

[Neurotic Guy]

Last year was a gift.  Never expected Pats to win a super bowl last year.  I am bummed that they couldn’t beat Miami at home. But they couldn’t.  Pats are not a very good team and the loss wasn’t a fluke. Miami outplayed (or at least evenly played) them all day.  D couldn’t stop the Dolphins. O was awful.

So... good! They got what they deserve, Wild Card Weekend game against a tough opponent.  If the Pats have another miracle in them, they have the right road to achieve it. 

[gouki88]

It might well be. I'm just saying that I don't think it's smart to say it's over until Brady is retired / elsewhere. Almost innumerable analysts and talking heads have made this statement for the last 6 years, and it has not once been true yet.

My prediction would be that Brady and the Pats stick together until Brady finally retires a couple years from now, all the while doing this dance where each side makes it look like it could end at any time.  I think the Krafts will do anything they possibly can to keep Brady in a Pats jersey forever.

I'm just not convinced it's actually the best thing for either side, at this point. 

The Pats would be better off making a commitment to somebody who can be with the team and grow for several years, without questions of whether he's going to retire or leave at the end of the season. 

Brady would be better off on a team that is better stocked on offense so that he doesn't need to do as much.

Logically speaking you might very well be right - I just don't think I could stomach Brady in another uniform.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White (who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

Are you saying White didn't play well this season? It seems to me that it was instead a case of the team not utilizing him as much as they should have. I kept thinking they should be going to him more often in the short-passing game.

I'm never counting out the GOAT duo until the very end. It's a bit weird we have such a skeptical fanbase after seeing the possibly most improbable dynasty in sports history. It's almost as if we like eating crow. If Eli Manning and the derping Giants could go on that ridiculous Super Bowl run as wild cards twice, anything could happen.

Very good point. Maybe we'll get a helmet catch of our own this year!

Did you forget about Edelman’s leg catch against the Falcons?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White (who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

Are you saying White didn't play well this season? It seems to me that it was instead a case of the team not utilizing him as much as they should have. I kept thinking they should be going to him more often in the short-passing game.

I'm never counting out the GOAT duo until the very end. It's a bit weird we have such a skeptical fanbase after seeing the possibly most improbable dynasty in sports history. It's almost as if we like eating crow. If Eli Manning and the derping Giants could go on that ridiculous Super Bowl run as wild cards twice, anything could happen.

Very good point. Maybe we'll get a helmet catch of our own this year!

Did you forget about Edelman’s leg catch against the Falcons?

Why yes. Yes I did.

Okay, that was one crazy catch for the good guys, and pretty much equivalent to the helmet catch. But we're still owed our version of the Mario Manningham sideline catch AND the Jermaine Kearse leg catch!

[nickagneta]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White (who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

Are you saying White didn't play well this season? It seems to me that it was instead a case of the team not utilizing him as much as they should have. I kept thinking they should be going to him more often in the short-passing game.

I'm never counting out the GOAT duo until the very end. It's a bit weird we have such a skeptical fanbase after seeing the possibly most improbable dynasty in sports history. It's almost as if we like eating crow. If Eli Manning and the derping Giants could go on that ridiculous Super Bowl run as wild cards twice, anything could happen.

Very good point. Maybe we'll get a helmet catch of our own this year!

Did you forget about Edelman’s leg catch against the Falcons?

Why yes. Yes I did.

Okay, that was one crazy catch for the good guys, and pretty much equivalent to the helmet catch. But we're still owed our version of the Mario Manningham sideline catch AND the Jermaine Kearse leg catch!

While not recorded as a catch, statistically speaking, Malcolm Butler's interception was a pretty spectacular "caught"ball.

[Moranis]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

He is 42.  It is over.  If they beat the Titans, they won't realistically get by the Chiefs, but let's just say Mahomes is injured early in the game and they get by the Chiefs, they aren't winning in Baltimore so they have to hope the Ravens lose and they get a better matchup, like say the Bills go on a miracle run.  They then would have to beat one of the juggernauts in the NFC.  It isn't happening and given Brady is 42 and has looked awful much of the year, the run is over.  They are done being a contender with Brady under center.  Father time has arrived and he is undefeated.

Given that he's had a worse season than this one and then gone on to win the Superbowl the very next season, I think it's premature to try and call it quits before he does.

This is Brady's worst season in his career in many meaningful metrics.  Now sure early on the Patriots were run-centric and didn't pass nearly as much, but Brady never had a 9 game stretch with a passer rating under 100 at any time in his career until this season.  He has the lowest TD% in his career.  His yards/attempt is the 2nd worst of his career.  He hasn't had this few yards in a full season in a decade (2010) when he had 36 TD's and just 4 INT's. 

HE IS 42.  You don't get better when you are his age you only get worse and this is Brady's worst season in his career (the only real argument for a worse season is 2002 when Brady was 25).  And this didn't just arise out of the blue, Brady has statistically been getting worse in each of the last 4 seasons.  It was more subtle than this year, but this has been the trend for awhile. 

I get wanting to hold on to hope and being optimistic, but that is just setting you up for heartbreak.  The Patriots are done as a contender with Brady.  The run was a lot longer than anyone could have reasonably anticipated, but it had to happen eventually and that time is now.

It might well be. I'm just saying that I don't think it's smart to say it's over until Brady is retired / elsewhere. Almost innumerable analysts and talking heads have made this statement for the last 6 years, and it has not once been true yet.

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead. 

[jambr380]

While not recorded as a catch, statistically speaking, Malcolm Butler's interception was a pretty spectacular "caught"ball.

Well, okay, the Butler INT and the Kearse leg catch cancel each other out then. At the time of the Kearse catch, I was totally distraught. Pats had 'only' won 3 SBs up to this point and they were getting ripped off once again and were about to be 3-3 in SBs.. The Butler INT remains the single biggest play in SB history and led to the start of an incredible new era.

We can add Welker's drop in 2011 - that pretty much lost us that SB.

[jambr380]

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.

I get that you are one of the great contrarians in CB/CS history, but what is even the point right now? Even if Brady is done, why try your hardest to slam home the final nail in the coffin through age/stats. The Pats have literally just won 3 of the past 5 SBs and Brady has proven the world wrong time and again. People saying he's done and needs to retire sound foolish these days. It's been a broken record for years. He may not be as elite as he was in his prime, but he still has a little left in the tank. He certainly didn't look 'done' earlier in the season with some real weapons around him.

[Neurotic Guy]

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.

I get that you are one of the great contrarians in CB/CS history, but what is even the point right now? Even if Brady is done, why try your hardest to slam home the final nail in the coffin through age/stats. The Pats have literally just won 3 of the past 5 SBs and Brady has proven the world wrong time and again. People saying he's done and needs to retire sound foolish these days. It's been a broken record for years. He may not be as elite as he was in his prime, but he still has a little left in the tank. He certainly didn't look 'done' earlier in the season with some real weapons around him.

He’s not done unless he wants to be.  Brady being among the top QBs in the league next year seems possible to me if he has a good O-line and weapons.  Hope it’s with the Pats.

How many of you think he wouldn’t be among the top 8 in the league this year if he was QB for the Saints?

[Moranis]

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.

I get that you are one of the great contrarians in CB/CS history, but what is even the point right now? Even if Brady is done, why try your hardest to slam home the final nail in the coffin through age/stats. The Pats have literally just won 3 of the past 5 SBs and Brady has proven the world wrong time and again. People saying he's done and needs to retire sound foolish these days. It's been a broken record for years. He may not be as elite as he was in his prime, but he still has a little left in the tank. He certainly didn't look 'done' earlier in the season with some real weapons around him.

He’s not done unless he wants to be.  Brady being among the top QBs in the league next year seems possible to me if he has a good O-line and weapons.  Hope it’s with the Pats.

How many of you think he wouldn’t be among the top 8 in the league this year if he was QB for the Saints?

I don't, though he'd obviously be better if he had Michael Thomas to throw to.  Though the Saints don't really have much outside of Michael Thomas to throw to.  I mean an older TE and a RB had the 2nd and 3rd most receiving yards, followed by Ted Ginn and then another RB and their 3rd string QB that is a jack of all trades.  Thomas is clearly awesome, but the Saints aren't exactly flush with pass catching talent outside of him. 

Edit: Let's also be clear, the Patriots receiving group is better than several of the other top teams that ended up with much better QB play like the Seahawks, Packers, Titans (once Tannehill took over), and arguably teams like the Niners and Ravens (though they have solid TE's, they aren't good at WR). 

[Neurotic Guy]

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.

I get that you are one of the great contrarians in CB/CS history, but what is even the point right now? Even if Brady is done, why try your hardest to slam home the final nail in the coffin through age/stats. The Pats have literally just won 3 of the past 5 SBs and Brady has proven the world wrong time and again. People saying he's done and needs to retire sound foolish these days. It's been a broken record for years. He may not be as elite as he was in his prime, but he still has a little left in the tank. He certainly didn't look 'done' earlier in the season with some real weapons around him.

He’s not done unless he wants to be.  Brady being among the top QBs in the league next year seems possible to me if he has a good O-line and weapons.  Hope it’s with the Pats.

How many of you think he wouldn’t be among the top 8 in the league this year if he was QB for the Saints?

I don't, though he'd obviously be better if he had Michael Thomas to throw to.  Though the Saints don't really have much outside of Michael Thomas to throw to.  I mean an older TE and a RB had the 2nd and 3rd most receiving yards, followed by Ted Ginn and then another RB and their 3rd string QB that is a jack of all trades.  Thomas is clearly awesome, but the Saints aren't exactly flush with pass catching talent outside of him. 

Edit: Let's also be clear, the Patriots receiving group is better than several of the other top teams that ended up with much better QB play like the Seahawks, Packers, Titans (once Tannehill took over), and arguably teams like the Niners and Ravens (though they have solid TE's, they aren't good at WR).

I can't analyze the other teams too well as I haven't watched enough of them.  But Edelman was a shell of himself over much of the last half of the season.  After that the Pats had a group of 4th/5th receivers and a 39 yo tight end.  I noticed you didn't dispute the O-line issue which in combination with a receiving core that had trouble running routes, trouble getting open and trouble catching the ball, is a quarterback's nightmare.  Somehow TB had 22 TDs and 7 INTs and was the 16th ranked QB in total QB rating (fwiw).   Yeah, maybe Saints with their other-worldly receiver, Ingram pretty solid at RB, 2 OK TEs, and solid/deep O-line wasn't the best example, but yeah Brady probably would have been top 8 with Saints offense.

[Moranis]

Yeah but that was mostly based on his age and doing things not done before based on that age.  Statistically he is way down across the board this year.  His last 8 games in particular, he has been a bottom 5 QB in several of the most meaningful metrics/statistics and that has never been the case in the past.   Maybe he has a switch to flip, but after losing to the Dolphins I don't see how he does.  They needed to win that game and came up epically short and Brady was bad.  Brady just hasn't failed in must win games many times in his career and he came up lame in their most recent game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Titans, heck I might even give them the slight edge, but I'd be shocked if they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.

I get that you are one of the great contrarians in CB/CS history, but what is even the point right now? Even if Brady is done, why try your hardest to slam home the final nail in the coffin through age/stats. The Pats have literally just won 3 of the past 5 SBs and Brady has proven the world wrong time and again. People saying he's done and needs to retire sound foolish these days. It's been a broken record for years. He may not be as elite as he was in his prime, but he still has a little left in the tank. He certainly didn't look 'done' earlier in the season with some real weapons around him.

He’s not done unless he wants to be.  Brady being among the top QBs in the league next year seems possible to me if he has a good O-line and weapons.  Hope it’s with the Pats.

How many of you think he wouldn’t be among the top 8 in the league this year if he was QB for the Saints?

I don't, though he'd obviously be better if he had Michael Thomas to throw to.  Though the Saints don't really have much outside of Michael Thomas to throw to.  I mean an older TE and a RB had the 2nd and 3rd most receiving yards, followed by Ted Ginn and then another RB and their 3rd string QB that is a jack of all trades.  Thomas is clearly awesome, but the Saints aren't exactly flush with pass catching talent outside of him. 

Edit: Let's also be clear, the Patriots receiving group is better than several of the other top teams that ended up with much better QB play like the Seahawks, Packers, Titans (once Tannehill took over), and arguably teams like the Niners and Ravens (though they have solid TE's, they aren't good at WR).

I can't analyze the other teams too well as I haven't watched enough of them.  But Edelman was a shell of himself over much of the last half of the season.  After that the Pats had a group of 4th/5th receivers and a 39 yo tight end.  I noticed you didn't dispute the O-line issue which in combination with a receiving core that had trouble running routes, trouble getting open and trouble catching the ball, is a quarterback's nightmare.  Somehow TB had 22 TDs and 7 INTs and was the 16th ranked QB in total QB rating (fwiw).   Yeah, maybe Saints with their other-worldly receiver, Ingram pretty solid at RB, 2 OK TEs, and solid/deep O-line wasn't the best example, but yeah Brady probably would have been top 8 with Saints offense.

By yards, the Patriots had the 8th ranked passing offense and were 18th in rushing which equated to 7th overall.  Brady though was not a top 8 QB, despite having a top 8 passing offense overall.