2019 Historical: How Does My Team Look Thread

[Silky]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

please, votes have been cast already.

and I am not completely disrespecing any other teams at all.

The opposite is happening if anything, my team is getting disrespected.

Or you simply have an over-inflated view of your own team....

Sure

[Silky]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

[Roy H.]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

[Silky]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

Why bother?

Minds were made up already.

I typed before I looked, went off memory. You got me. congratulations I guess? I did not act the fool, I mispoke. I was thinking more of online debates between Kidd and Payton, and less about all time ranking lists (which are all a joke)

I think Payton is a better PG, obviously others buy into Kidds stat hunting though.

Payton scored better, Defended better, got lots of assists but turned the ball over far LESS than kidd. Kidd had good court vision and was a better rebounder but Payton had it, he was a more dynamic player that other teams feared.

Payton was crazy good. And is apparently, criminally underrated.

And in todays game, a Point guard who can defend full court, fight through screen, break down the defense (Kidd was bad at this) and make outside shots is FAR more valuable than a PG who is not as good at any of those things.

[Moranis]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

I'd take Kidd's 02-03 season over Payton's 95-96 season.  And that wasn't even Kidd's best season (though I get why he would use that one in this). 

Kidd had a better career and a better peak than Payton.  Payton was a great player, he just wasn't as good as Kidd. 

[Somebody]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

^this tbh. I would've ranked your team quite a bit higher if you spent more time convincing me how your pieces would fit, and how your two ball dominant superstars would scale back their offenses while maintaining their offensive value.
FYI your team was ranked near the middle in my rankings, I still rate your team.

[nickagneta]

Deep breath everyone.

[KGs Knee]

Just an outside observers opinion, but there is no way I would ever take Jason Kidd ahead of Gary Payton. That just seems absurd to me.

If there are basketball writers out there saying otherwise, they're stupid.

[Roy H.]

Just an outside observers opinion, but there is no way I would ever take Jason Kidd ahead of Gary Payton. That just seems absurd to me.

If there are basketball writers out there saying otherwise, they're stupid.

As a person, maybe. (Edit: Or not. Payton allegedly battered a woman as well.)

As a player, Kidd was just better.  He was widely thought to be better at the time, too, which is why he was All-NBA first team five times, compared to twice for Payton.

[Silky]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

^this tbh. I would've ranked your team quite a bit higher if you spent more time convincing me how your pieces would fit, and how your two ball dominant superstars would scale back their offenses while maintaining their offensive value.
FYI your team was ranked near the middle in my rankings, I still rate your team.

I shouldnt have to convince people that Koibe and Hakeem are great basketball players, 2 top 15 guys EASILY, that are capable of playing with others.

That seems a waste of time and a foolish thing to do.

Kobe had a 24 assist rate that year, Bird had a career average of 23.7.
But somehow Bird was a great teammate and a willing passer but Kobe was a selfish ballhog.

You cannot debate against pre-conceived notions.

[Somebody]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

^this tbh. I would've ranked your team quite a bit higher if you spent more time convincing me how your pieces would fit, and how your two ball dominant superstars would scale back their offenses while maintaining their offensive value.
FYI your team was ranked near the middle in my rankings, I still rate your team.

I shouldnt have to convince people that Koibe and Hakeem are great basketball players, 2 top 15 guys EASILY, that are capable of playing with others.

That seems a waste of time and a foolish thing to do.

Kobe had a 24 assist rate that year, Bird had a career average of 23.7.
But somehow Bird was a great teammate and a willing passer but Kobe was a selfish ballhog.

You cannot debate against pre-conceived notions.

That's where the eye test comes in. Bird played a relatively "off-ball" game compared to other offensive megastars, which assist % can't really quantify. And you should try and explain why both of them can mesh, they have very ball dominant games in the sense that they need to hold the ball for a long time to do their thing on offense.

[Silky]

Just an outside observers opinion, but there is no way I would ever take Jason Kidd ahead of Gary Payton. That just seems absurd to me.

If there are basketball writers out there saying otherwise, they're stupid.

As a person, maybe. (Edit: Or not. Payton allegedly battered a woman as well.)

As a player, Kidd was just better.  He was widely thought to be better at the time, too, which is why he was All-NBA first team five times, compared to twice for Payton.

Know who puts up even better stats than Kidd, Westbrook.
Kidd was a stat padder and didnt have the on game impact that Payton had.

And by the way, in the year chosen, Kidd was all nba and all nba defensive 2nd.

Payton in the year chosen was all nba defense 1st, DPOY and an all nba 2nd.

So looking at awards, Payton was better than Kidd in this exercise.

[Who]

I do like Golden State if David Thompson was starting

PG: Isiah Thomas
SG: David Thompson
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo
 C: Bill Russell

That is a pretty convincing team. A threatening team.

Sticking to Bruce Bowen in the starting lineup is making it hard for me to give the Warriors a high ranking.

[Who]

Lakers vs Blazers

Portland has nobody that can guard Steph Curry.
LA has nobody that Steph Curry can guard.

[Donoghus]

Just an outside observers opinion, but there is no way I would ever take Jason Kidd ahead of Gary Payton. That just seems absurd to me.

If there are basketball writers out there saying otherwise, they're stupid.

As a person, maybe. (Edit: Or not. Payton allegedly battered a woman as well.)

As a player, Kidd was just better.  He was widely thought to be better at the time, too, which is why he was All-NBA first team five times, compared to twice for Payton.

Know who puts up even better stats than Kidd, Westbrook.
Kidd was a stat padder and didnt have the on game impact that Payton had.

And by the way, in the year chosen, Kidd was all nba and all nba defensive 2nd.

Payton in the year chosen was all nba defense 1st, DPOY and an all nba 2nd.

So looking at awards, Payton was better than Kidd in this exercise.

This is laughable.

Go back & watch the '02 Eastern Conference Finals against BOS as one example.

Larger picture-wise & the debate at hand, Payton v. Kidd is a viable debate.  Might come down to how people value defense but I really can't find fault for choosing either side.  It's pretty darn close.