2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[nickagneta]

Good points, all - considering Centers.

Wished that PP34 would've gotten some defensive team recognition....dude even got recognition from LeBron James himself as being a great defender.

Who got picked before PP34 - especially in his latter years?

Shame that PP toiled on some losing teams...The Captain was so good in his prime that Shaq gave him his nickname.

I distinctly remember that Western road trip where Shaq gave Pierce his name. The Captain had gone off for a bunch of 30 point games in a row with some late heroics to boot and after playing LA Shaq said there was no question Pierce had arrived. He was The Truth.

[Roy H.]

ut he got obliterated by Hakeem in the finals and by MJ whenever they met.

So Ewing couldn't stop Michael Jordan?  I'm not sure that tells us a whole lot about his defense.

And, for whatever it's worth, Ewing dominated Hakeem in 1990, Ewing's best season.  He averaged 33 points per game, compared to Hakeem's 24, in head to head matchups.  In one of those games, Ewing had 6 blocks.  In another, Hakeem had 6 turnovers.  Hakeem fouled out both times.

I think over time, basketball fans have forgotten how great Ewing was at his peak. He hung around too long, but particularly in that 1990 season he was an amazing player.

But, the thing I'm a bit confused by...  How does it help other teams if the argument is "The center I picked in the first round is slightly better than this other team's center who was picked in the third round"?

[Roy H.]

Good points, all - considering Centers.

Wished that PP34 would've gotten some defensive team recognition....dude even got recognition from LeBron James himself as being a great defender.

Who got picked before PP34 - especially in his latter years?

Shame that PP toiled on some losing teams...The Captain was so good in his prime that Shaq gave him his nickname.

I distinctly remember that Western road trip where Shaq gave Pierce his name. The Captain had gone off for a bunch of 30 point games in a row with some late heroics to boot and after playing LA Shaq said there was no question Pierce had arrived. He was The Truth.

Man, some of those games just had to be seen to be believed.  That fourth quarter comeback against the Nets is one of those "I remember where I was at" games.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

John Stockton - John Havlicek - Kawhi Leonard - Elvin Hayes - Dikembe Mutombo

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

Hey Yoki, I like the team overall, I do.  You're probably a below average offensive team, but above average defensive team.  Some things to consider:

You'll need a backup ball-handler when Stockton sits.  Hondo and Kawhi could in their days, but I don't think they're ideal for being primary ballhandlers for chunks of time in in a league of all-timers.  It could be a combo-guard type player that can come in for Stockton or play with Stockton sliding Hondo to SF.  I'd recommend sticking with your perimeter defense mentality, of which there is a pretty clear contender available to draft.

It seems to me that Stockton is really the engine that makes this team go.  Again, I don't think Kawhi is going to be a creator with such ease as he does today when he's up against great defense each night.  So when Stockton sits, who is the offensive engine?  Is it that defensive backup point guard?  Or it could be drafting another bench player at a different position who is a great creator.  Is it maybe a great offensive center who can give you some yin to Mutombo's defensive yang?  Or you could get another similar defensive center to Mutombo as his backup and then you run the same offense all game.

I could see a huge boost to your team if you were to acquire a PnR partner for Stockton either via draft or trade.  Maybe Elvin Hayes is that guy, but it's just not as obvious to me as other guys would be.  I don't know Hayes game that well tbh though.

TP. This is what I'm looking for.

I do have some players in mind, but I didn't think that I would have a problem scoring. I do now. I have to fully re-assess things moving forward at this point now. I still have a few binkies on the board, but yeah, I'd have to find some scoring option, and a credible backup to John Stockton.

Thanks.

[GreenFaith1819]

Good points, all - considering Centers.

Wished that PP34 would've gotten some defensive team recognition....dude even got recognition from LeBron James himself as being a great defender.

Who got picked before PP34 - especially in his latter years?

Shame that PP toiled on some losing teams...The Captain was so good in his prime that Shaq gave him his nickname.

I distinctly remember that Western road trip where Shaq gave Pierce his name. The Captain had gone off for a bunch of 30 point games in a row with some late heroics to boot and after playing LA Shaq said there was no question Pierce had arrived. He was The Truth.

Captain always brought it.

Seeing him here with Larry in this setting does makes me smile.

That would've been a HECK of a 1-2 punch.

[Roy H.]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

                     

                                       

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

All are great players, but how much somebody believes in your team probably depends upon how much they consider Kawhi to be one of the best players of all time.

I don't necessarily put him in that category.  He's really awesome, but is he top-12 ever?  I'm not so sure.  And that's the deficit here, having the guy that we absolutely know will be able to dominate every single night, no matter who he is matched up against.

The talent is so superior in this league that I think you need to be able to find something that separates your team from others.  I don't see a clear cut case for your team being able to outscore the best teams in this league, or a clear cut case that your team is so dominant defensively that it would smother other teams.  It will make life difficult for them, but in the end this league is dominated by guys who could beat even great defenses.

You've got a lot of likable, excellent players who I consider to be among my favorites.  I do wonder in retrospect, however, if you would have been better off taking an all-time great in Round 1 and selecting a guy like Scottie Pippen later on.

[nickagneta]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

                     

                                       

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

Okay, so here we go....

I love the defensive presence this team will bring, especially on the perimeter.  I love that one of the best passers ever is going to be the cog that runs this engine and will feed his wings in the best places to get the pass exactly where the player should get the ball for optimum use. There's no wasted motion after Stockton gave you a pass. You got the ball exactly where it needed to be. Magic was great at that too. So was a certain championship PG that played in green.

I think you have a bunch of guys that will blend well and have good chemistry, as long as Hayes is properly fed. He is probably your #1 option on offense at this point.

I think this team screams for the need for someone to give you some instant offense. The offense you have is fine but Dikembe is about a zero value on offense so you need to make that up somewhere.

I think you could use some scoring help at C and up front in general, maybe bring Hondo off the bench, and draft a someone to start. There is one guy I think would fit in perfectly there.

Overall, I think the lack of top end talent will hold you back from being a top team but, esthetically, I would love to be a fan of your team.

EDIT: Fixed my Baylor blunder to Hayes
 

[Roy H.]

I think you have a bunch of guys that will blend well and have good chemistry, as long as Baylor is properly fed. He is probably your #1 option on offense at this point.

Hayes rather than Baylor, correct?  Elvin vs. Elgin (who is on Chicago).

[nickagneta]

I think you have a bunch of guys that will blend well and have good chemistry, as long as Baylor is properly fed. He is probably your #1 option on offense at this point.

Hayes rather than Baylor, correct?  Elvin vs. Elgin (who is on Chicago).

Lol..meant Hayes. It's all those vins, wins, and gins after the El that confuse me.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

                     

                                       

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

All are great players, but how much somebody believes in your team probably depends upon how much they consider Kawhi to be one of the best players of all time.

I don't necessarily put him in that category.  He's really awesome, but is he top-12 ever?  I'm not so sure.  And that's the deficit here, having the guy that we absolutely know will be able to dominate every single night, no matter who he is matched up against.

The talent is so superior in this league that I think you need to be able to find something that separates your team from others.  I don't see a clear cut case for your team being able to outscore the best teams in this league, or a clear cut case that your team is so dominant defensively that it would smother other teams.  It will make life difficult for them, but in the end this league is dominated by guys who could beat even great defenses.

You've got a lot of likable, excellent players who I consider to be among my favorites.  I do wonder in retrospect, however, if you would have been better off taking an all-time great in Round 1 and selecting a guy like Scottie Pippen later on.

Yeah. I may have overthunk it when I drafted Kawhi in the first round.

At the time, I really thought I needed a guy who I can match up against MJ, LeBron, Larry and Magic, and would also make them work defensively. I guess I really have to work hard in convincing Kawhi can do that (that would be my homework). Maybe I should have just taken Hakeem there (2nd on my board) and just went with it. It probably would have been easier, but I thought I could be smart. Guess we'll see, I have to prove to everyone that Kawhi can do it as the alpha.

I do want to ask you, and everyone. Elvin Hayes' rookie year, he averaged 28 points per game. And this is a year in which he was going against guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond. Hondo in 70-71 averaged 28 and 7 assists. Assuming I took Hayes' rookie year, would that, and Hondo's be enough of a scoring punch for my team even if I somehow can't prove that Kawhi could be the #1 guy? What if Big E and Hondo are my 1-2 punch, with Kawhi helping out?

[gouki88]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

                     

                                       

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

All are great players, but how much somebody believes in your team probably depends upon how much they consider Kawhi to be one of the best players of all time.

I don't necessarily put him in that category.  He's really awesome, but is he top-12 ever?  I'm not so sure.  And that's the deficit here, having the guy that we absolutely know will be able to dominate every single night, no matter who he is matched up against.

The talent is so superior in this league that I think you need to be able to find something that separates your team from others.  I don't see a clear cut case for your team being able to outscore the best teams in this league, or a clear cut case that your team is so dominant defensively that it would smother other teams.  It will make life difficult for them, but in the end this league is dominated by guys who could beat even great defenses.

You've got a lot of likable, excellent players who I consider to be among my favorites.  I do wonder in retrospect, however, if you would have been better off taking an all-time great in Round 1 and selecting a guy like Scottie Pippen later on.

Yeah. I may have overthunk it when I drafted Kawhi in the first round.

At the time, I really thought I needed a guy who I can match up against MJ, LeBron, Larry and Magic, and would also make them work defensively. I guess I really have to work hard in convincing Kawhi can do that (that would be my homework). Maybe I should have just taken Hakeem there (2nd on my board) and just went with it. It probably would have been easier, but I thought I could be smart. Guess we'll see, I have to prove to everyone that Kawhi can do it as the alpha.

I do want to ask you, and everyone. Elvin Hayes' rookie year, he averaged 28 points per game. And this is a year in which he was going against guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond. Hondo in 70-71 averaged 28 and 7 assists. Assuming I took Hayes' rookie year, would that, and Hondo's be enough of a scoring punch for my team even if I somehow can't prove that Kawhi could be the #1 guy? What if Big E and Hondo are my 1-2 punch, with Kawhi helping out?

I definitely don't mind the 1-2 punch of Hayes and Hondo. I don't think Hayes would be getting the 25+ shots a game, but a season like '73-'74, where he averaged 21/18 with 3BPG would be awesome alongside Hondo's early 70's seasons and Kawhi's most recent season.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I think you have a bunch of guys that will blend well and have good chemistry, as long as Baylor is properly fed. He is probably your #1 option on offense at this point.

Hayes rather than Baylor, correct?  Elvin vs. Elgin (who is on Chicago).

Lol..meant Hayes. It's all those vins, wins, and gins after the El that confuse me.

It's Elvin. 

Now if you don't mind, I want to ask. Now that you know it's Elvin Hayes, and not Elgin Baylor, do you still think I need more rebounding? Seeming as both Hayes and Dikembe Mutombo at one point led the league in boards per game twice in their careers. And then there's Hondo, who in the year I picked for him, averaged 9 rebounds per on his own.

[action781]

I'll rank the team defenses in this game so far leaving out Utah:

1. Detroit - Pretty clear to me.  One of best defensive centers ever Mutombo along with solid to elite defenders at 3 other positions (Stockton, Hondo, Kawhi) and I don't really know about Hayes.
2. Golden State - I'm putting them here with the assumption that Harden doesn't start at SG which I actually think might bump them up to #1 when I see it in writing.  They have 4 plus defensive starters already (IT, Durant, Giannis, Russell), no need to ruin that with a weak link.  Although they can probably cover his mistakes.
3. San Antonio - GP, Kobe, Hakeem is the foundation of an elite defense.  Hedo can even be hidden/function within that foundation.  With Yao, they are ranked here at 3.  He's an OK defensive center (bottom few in this league but at least can body the big fellas) and Hakeem is an elite defensive PF, but I think their ranking goes up if they move Yao to the bench.
4. Miami - I like their perimeter defense West, Wade, George (solid, no real weak link) and frontcourt Thurmond, Shaq is good too.  4th is a good ranking.
5. Boston - A few all-time great (top 5 all-time) perimeter defenders in Lebron and Pippen with D-Rob on the back line.  Some holes otherwise that I think hurt the overall defense, but they could be patched up which bumps up this ranking.
6. Philly - Solid defenders 1-5, but I don't think any that I'd consider a top 3 defender at their position in this game and most aren't top 5.  Just solid/middle-of-the-pack across the board.  One problem is I think Pierce's best defensive days were later in career (a little slower and much stronger) at SF which makes it tough to see him guarding SGs.  But that is an unknown still what year Pierce we're getting.  Was he really a good SG defender in his early years?  I don't remember him as such.
7. Atlanta - Dirk might be their weakest link, but I don't see any teams here really running their offense through their PF position?  Is Ice Man a good defender?  I don't really know that.  My assumption here is that he's not that great, but not atrocious.  Serviceable.
8. Dallas - Their 1 4 and 5 are all solid or plus.  But their wing defenders Ray/Vince/Nique are very meh.
9. LAL - OK overall.  KG is obviously great and nicely paired with Cowen, T-Mac & Dr J are nothing special (serviceable), and Steph is either serviceable or a liability depending on opponent.  Draymond gives a defensive boost off the bench, but Nash equally negates that.
10. Chicago - Defense is OK thanks to their bigs McHale/Duncan/Reed, but I think offense is more their thing.
11. Portland - Offense is what they'll hang their hat on.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

After 6 rounds, here's the 2019 Celticsstrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

                     

                                       

It doesn't have the flashiest of superstars, but I'm happy I was able to build a starting five to my liking, and the identity that I want. A tenacious defensive group, and a well balanced team on offense. An unselfish team that fits well together and does not take away the strengths from the other.

Now it's time to shore up the bench.

I'm quite satisfied as to where I'm at. Although it's quite slim pickings for me as far as who I want as a bench unit. Here's hoping I land the guys I have on my board. But for now, I think that's a legitimate starting 5.

Hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to bump this and see what you guys think. I'm trying to gauge where we stand as a team, what we might need as far as depth, and where we are in the race. I have a few ideas in mind, of course barring the guys I like getting picked before I do, but I could use some feedback from other minds as well.

Thanks.

All are great players, but how much somebody believes in your team probably depends upon how much they consider Kawhi to be one of the best players of all time.

I don't necessarily put him in that category.  He's really awesome, but is he top-12 ever?  I'm not so sure.  And that's the deficit here, having the guy that we absolutely know will be able to dominate every single night, no matter who he is matched up against.

The talent is so superior in this league that I think you need to be able to find something that separates your team from others.  I don't see a clear cut case for your team being able to outscore the best teams in this league, or a clear cut case that your team is so dominant defensively that it would smother other teams.  It will make life difficult for them, but in the end this league is dominated by guys who could beat even great defenses.

You've got a lot of likable, excellent players who I consider to be among my favorites.  I do wonder in retrospect, however, if you would have been better off taking an all-time great in Round 1 and selecting a guy like Scottie Pippen later on.

Yeah. I may have overthunk it when I drafted Kawhi in the first round.

At the time, I really thought I needed a guy who I can match up against MJ, LeBron, Larry and Magic, and would also make them work defensively. I guess I really have to work hard in convincing Kawhi can do that (that would be my homework). Maybe I should have just taken Hakeem there (2nd on my board) and just went with it. It probably would have been easier, but I thought I could be smart. Guess we'll see, I have to prove to everyone that Kawhi can do it as the alpha.

I do want to ask you, and everyone. Elvin Hayes' rookie year, he averaged 28 points per game. And this is a year in which he was going against guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond. Hondo in 70-71 averaged 28 and 7 assists. Assuming I took Hayes' rookie year, would that, and Hondo's be enough of a scoring punch for my team even if I somehow can't prove that Kawhi could be the #1 guy? What if Big E and Hondo are my 1-2 punch, with Kawhi helping out?

I definitely don't mind the 1-2 punch of Hayes and Hondo. I don't think Hayes would be getting the 25+ shots a game, but a season like '73-'74, where he averaged 21/18 with 3BPG would be awesome alongside Hondo's early 70's seasons and Kawhi's most recent season.

Big E also averaged 3 blocks a game in that season too. My only concern is his 42% shooting from that year. That is throwing me off a bit. I may have to think really hard which season to use for Hayes.

[nickagneta]

I think you have a bunch of guys that will blend well and have good chemistry, as long as Baylor is properly fed. He is probably your #1 option on offense at this point.

Hayes rather than Baylor, correct?  Elvin vs. Elgin (who is on Chicago).

Lol..meant Hayes. It's all those vins, wins, and gins after the El that confuse me.

It's Elvin. 

Now if you don't mind, I want to ask. Now that you know it's Elvin Hayes, and not Elgin Baylor, do you still think I need more rebounding? Seeming as both Hayes and Dikembe Mutombo at one point led the league in boards per game twice in their careers. And then there's Hondo, who in the year I picked for him, averaged 9 rebounds per on his own.

I amended the other post. No not rebounding, but scoring from upfront and scoring in general, yes.