Author Topic: Kanter pulling a Lopez  (Read 5116 times)

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Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2019, 10:29:45 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2019, 10:33:02 AM »

Offline Silky

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

a three a game as a trailer I am completely ok with.

Look at him as being a baynes replacement. Baynes never took many threes, Kanter wont either

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2019, 10:38:16 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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I've posted this a couple times before but it bears repeating. The Celtics are very likely DONE with "deals" heading into the season, and will not change the roster. Some posters are saying that Bulpett hinted at more moves coming. However, the day after the Kemba press conference he wrote this:

Quote
While Danny Ainge stopped short of going full Norman Dale and saying, “This is your team,” he admitted to the Herald that, barring any unforeseen stars becoming available in the late summer, what you see now is what you’re going to get.

“I mean, obviously the answer’s yes,” he said. “We brought in a lot of new guys. But you never know what opportunities come.

“But, I mean, I’m not looking to move players. I like every guy that we’ve signed, every guy that we have. Now it’s just a matter of, are we the right fit? And that’s going to be up to Brad (Stevens) and I to try to figure out the best thing. But, yeah, I’m very satisfied with where we stand right now.”

It seems much more likely that if a trade happens, it will be near the deadline.

Agree.   I think at this point only two types of deals will be made this year:

1) Small, maintenance moves such as finalizing the 15th roster spot and then any moves needed to address injuries.

2) Targets of opportunity.   This would be a bigger trade, but would only happen because something dramatic changed in the landscape.  Kyrie becoming available two years ago was an example.  It wasn't like Danny was looking to trade for him but then he suddenly became available and it directly addressed the problem of Isaiah's hip injury.   Danny will always keep an eye out for a new opportunity to make a meaningful deal.   But you don't necessarily plan on these sort of trades because the opportunities may never arise.

Barring some dramatic opportunity that doesn't exist right now, I think Danny intends to let Brad and the team as it currently is constituted just develop.     At worst, it's a chance for the pieces to grow in value.   At best, they become a really good team.
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Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2019, 11:57:42 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I've posted this a couple times before but it bears repeating. The Celtics are very likely DONE with "deals" heading into the season, and will not change the roster. Some posters are saying that Bulpett hinted at more moves coming. However, the day after the Kemba press conference he wrote this:

Quote
While Danny Ainge stopped short of going full Norman Dale and saying, “This is your team,” he admitted to the Herald that, barring any unforeseen stars becoming available in the late summer, what you see now is what you’re going to get.

“I mean, obviously the answer’s yes,” he said. “We brought in a lot of new guys. But you never know what opportunities come.

“But, I mean, I’m not looking to move players. I like every guy that we’ve signed, every guy that we have. Now it’s just a matter of, are we the right fit? And that’s going to be up to Brad (Stevens) and I to try to figure out the best thing. But, yeah, I’m very satisfied with where we stand right now.”

It seems much more likely that if a trade happens, it will be near the deadline.

Agree.   I think at this point only two types of deals will be made this year:

1) Small, maintenance moves such as finalizing the 15th roster spot and then any moves needed to address injuries.

2) Targets of opportunity.   This would be a bigger trade, but would only happen because something dramatic changed in the landscape.  Kyrie becoming available two years ago was an example.  It wasn't like Danny was looking to trade for him but then he suddenly became available and it directly addressed the problem of Isaiah's hip injury.   Danny will always keep an eye out for a new opportunity to make a meaningful deal.   But you don't necessarily plan on these sort of trades because the opportunities may never arise.

Barring some dramatic opportunity that doesn't exist right now, I think Danny intends to let Brad and the team as it currently is constituted just develop.     At worst, it's a chance for the pieces to grow in value.   At best, they become a really good team.

This quote from Danny scares me a lot.

I think you have to read it as a tacit admission that he really doesn't have the pieces to trade for quality players anymore, OR he's lost his edge. 

When the team was packed with lottery picks, solid vets, and stars his company line was consistently "Everyone is tradeable and nothing is off the table."  Now that the forward/center position is filled with journeymen, stiffs, and lowly regarded prospects he's not planning to trade anyone?  Yikes.   How did we get here?   


Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2019, 12:29:53 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I've posted this a couple times before but it bears repeating. The Celtics are very likely DONE with "deals" heading into the season, and will not change the roster. Some posters are saying that Bulpett hinted at more moves coming. However, the day after the Kemba press conference he wrote this:

Quote
While Danny Ainge stopped short of going full Norman Dale and saying, “This is your team,” he admitted to the Herald that, barring any unforeseen stars becoming available in the late summer, what you see now is what you’re going to get.

“I mean, obviously the answer’s yes,” he said. “We brought in a lot of new guys. But you never know what opportunities come.

“But, I mean, I’m not looking to move players. I like every guy that we’ve signed, every guy that we have. Now it’s just a matter of, are we the right fit? And that’s going to be up to Brad (Stevens) and I to try to figure out the best thing. But, yeah, I’m very satisfied with where we stand right now.”

It seems much more likely that if a trade happens, it will be near the deadline.

Agree.   I think at this point only two types of deals will be made this year:

1) Small, maintenance moves such as finalizing the 15th roster spot and then any moves needed to address injuries.

2) Targets of opportunity.   This would be a bigger trade, but would only happen because something dramatic changed in the landscape.  Kyrie becoming available two years ago was an example.  It wasn't like Danny was looking to trade for him but then he suddenly became available and it directly addressed the problem of Isaiah's hip injury.   Danny will always keep an eye out for a new opportunity to make a meaningful deal.   But you don't necessarily plan on these sort of trades because the opportunities may never arise.

Barring some dramatic opportunity that doesn't exist right now, I think Danny intends to let Brad and the team as it currently is constituted just develop.     At worst, it's a chance for the pieces to grow in value.   At best, they become a really good team.

This quote from Danny scares me a lot.

I think you have to read it as a tacit admission that he really doesn't have the pieces to trade for quality players anymore, OR he's lost his edge. 

When the team was packed with lottery picks, solid vets, and stars his company line was consistently "Everyone is tradeable and nothing is off the table."  Now that the forward/center position is filled with journeymen, stiffs, and lowly regarded prospects he's not planning to trade anyone?  Yikes.   How did we get here?


That's because last year's team full of vets and stars was totally dysfunctional, he would have been glad to move some of them.

This year's team is built to fit Steven's system and to complement the young stars that we have in Tatum and Brown. We still have many guys who need the ball in Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown. We don't need to import more of them. We have a solid group of defensive players too. As for the big man rotation, Poirier and RW3 look very promising, and Kanter can more than fill the hole for now. Under Stevens, I strongly believe Kanter will flourish.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2019, 12:37:26 PM »

Offline Silky

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The ship has pssed for cashing in.

Danny moved for kyrie and going after davis was always the plan.

But curveballs came and screwed everything up.
Kyrie was cancerous
Morris and rozier were cancerous
Davis is a lebroni


Ao the only course of action that is logical is what Danny did

Prove we are still a desireable location(signed Kemba)
Build around the youth

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2019, 02:24:42 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I can't grasp that someone would suggest we acquire Kevin Love. 4 years left on his deal, $30m/year, and he's clearly  in decline. His contract would be a noose around our neck for years to come.

I guess I should never be surprised at some fans' willingness to sell the future for a slight improvement in the now.

Trading Smart/Brown/picks for Bradley Beal isn't turning us into a contender. The only way one could make that trade is if you're certain you don't want to sign Brown to a big deal. Otherwise, Ainge should continue to keep both Brown and Tatum under lock and key. You can't build a team throwing away the best young players you've had in decades.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2019, 05:06:51 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Kevin Love is a lumbering dinosaur in terms of foot speed.  There's no way he can thrive in the Celtics defensive system or be able to come out to guard bigs on the perimeter and/or make the quick switches needed.

Bradley Beal otoh would be a nice piece.  But I'm afraid that adding him this year would stunt the growth of Tatum and Brown.  We need to see what we have in those two before we make any major moves.

Tatum could turn into a superstar this year, but he needs touches to do so.  Adding Love or Beal would take touches and shots away from a kid that DA believes could turn into the franchise.  I'm not ready to do that yet.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I've posted this a couple times before but it bears repeating. The Celtics are very likely DONE with "deals" heading into the season, and will not change the roster. Some posters are saying that Bulpett hinted at more moves coming. However, the day after the Kemba press conference he wrote this:

Quote
While Danny Ainge stopped short of going full Norman Dale and saying, “This is your team,” he admitted to the Herald that, barring any unforeseen stars becoming available in the late summer, what you see now is what you’re going to get.

“I mean, obviously the answer’s yes,” he said. “We brought in a lot of new guys. But you never know what opportunities come.

“But, I mean, I’m not looking to move players. I like every guy that we’ve signed, every guy that we have. Now it’s just a matter of, are we the right fit? And that’s going to be up to Brad (Stevens) and I to try to figure out the best thing. But, yeah, I’m very satisfied with where we stand right now.”

It seems much more likely that if a trade happens, it will be near the deadline.

Agree.   I think at this point only two types of deals will be made this year:

1) Small, maintenance moves such as finalizing the 15th roster spot and then any moves needed to address injuries.

2) Targets of opportunity.   This would be a bigger trade, but would only happen because something dramatic changed in the landscape.  Kyrie becoming available two years ago was an example.  It wasn't like Danny was looking to trade for him but then he suddenly became available and it directly addressed the problem of Isaiah's hip injury.   Danny will always keep an eye out for a new opportunity to make a meaningful deal.   But you don't necessarily plan on these sort of trades because the opportunities may never arise.

Barring some dramatic opportunity that doesn't exist right now, I think Danny intends to let Brad and the team as it currently is constituted just develop.     At worst, it's a chance for the pieces to grow in value.   At best, they become a really good team.

This quote from Danny scares me a lot.

I think you have to read it as a tacit admission that he really doesn't have the pieces to trade for quality players anymore, OR he's lost his edge. 

When the team was packed with lottery picks, solid vets, and stars his company line was consistently "Everyone is tradeable and nothing is off the table."  Now that the forward/center position is filled with journeymen, stiffs, and lowly regarded prospects he's not planning to trade anyone?  Yikes.   How did we get here?


That's because last year's team full of vets and stars was totally dysfunctional, he would have been glad to move some of them.

This year's team is built to fit Steven's system and to complement the young stars that we have in Tatum and Brown. We still have many guys who need the ball in Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown. We don't need to import more of them. We have a solid group of defensive players too. As for the big man rotation, Poirier and RW3 look very promising, and Kanter can more than fill the hole for now. Under Stevens, I strongly believe Kanter will flourish.

I also think Danny is smart enough to realize that uncertainty among the players about their future is not conducive to chemistry.   It's been reported that all the trade rumors around the Davis mess at least got in the heads of Jayson and some of the other young players.   Plus the uncertainty around Kyrie staying or not was a huge thing in itself.

The best way for him to make Brad's job easier is to put out a message of stability.   Let guys just focus on doing their jobs and playing together.

Saying he's itching to make a big move isn't going to make anything better or even make such a deal happen if there is no deal anywhere that makes sense at the moment.   Danny will obviously just keep his eyes and ears open for any good opportunity.  But it makes no sense to make your plans dependent on something that you can't control and it makes no sense to speak anything but confidence about the roster that you have.
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Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2019, 06:43:50 PM »

Offline action781

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

I don't think he'll take too many 3s.  But I'd like for him to take ~2 per game, mostly just so that the threat of him shooting the 3 is always there which will stretch opposing defensive centers out of the paint.
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Picks: 11(4), 12(9)

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2019, 07:01:01 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

I don't think he'll take too many 3s.  But I'd like for him to take ~2 per game, mostly just so that the threat of him shooting the 3 is always there which will stretch opposing defensive centers out of the paint.

The advantage of him shooting 3's works both ways. If opponents guard him with a swing or a quicker player who can guard out to the line, he can pressure them on the offensive glass.  If they put a big on him, he can go outside and shoot it.

It's worth asking how good he needs to be from there for the strategy to be effective.
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Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2019, 07:18:26 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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I don't think Kanter will be an issue.

It's a given Kanter will not disappoint us.

The problem is the Celts still need another star player.

If the Celts add a guy like Kevin Love or acquire a player like Bradley Beal, Kanter will prosper even more.

Just don't expect Kanter to be like Horford when it comes to pick and roll defense.

Disagree

Celts have the talent

Kevin Love?

Cmon now

Yeah I agree - Kevin Love is pretty much shot. 

He's not a star and hasn't been for several years now.  He's basically a better (but smaller) version of Kelly Olynyk these days.  He's an above average pretty good (but not elite) rebounder and he's a skilled passer, but his jumper isn't what it once was, his post game left him years ago, and his defense has been consistently mediocre.

In terms of intangibles he's also a proven choker in the playoffs, he's highly injury prone, he has known emotional/mental problems that he's admitted to struggling with (not a good mix for a team that had all sorts of chemistry issues last year), he struggles with leadership roles, and  and he struggles to deal with pressure.  He's proven to be incapable as a leader. 

I can see how Love could be a nice fit on the right team (he'd actually probably be a great fit on the Clippers, Lakers or Warriors right now)  but he's just not a good fit on a Celtics team that already has too many wannabe stars and who's biggest concern right now is defense.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2019, 08:23:54 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

I don't think he'll take too many 3s.  But I'd like for him to take ~2 per game, mostly just so that the threat of him shooting the 3 is always there which will stretch opposing defensive centers out of the paint.

The advantage of him shooting 3's works both ways. If opponents guard him with a swing or a quicker player who can guard out to the line, he can pressure them on the offensive glass.  If they put a big on him, he can go outside and shoot it.

It's worth asking how good he needs to be from there for the strategy to be effective.

At low volume of only a couple threes per game, anything north of ~30% is probably sufficient to be a 'threat'.   It's not all that efficient, but as such a tiny slice of his overall shot profile that shouldn't matter.

If he increases the volume to 'Lopez-like' volumes of ~5+ threes per game, then that becomes a more significant share of his shot profile and efficiency on that shot becomes as important as the 'threat' benefit.  At that point, I think you need to be north of ~35% to make it worth doing.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2019, 10:53:17 PM »

Offline action781

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

I don't think he'll take too many 3s.  But I'd like for him to take ~2 per game, mostly just so that the threat of him shooting the 3 is always there which will stretch opposing defensive centers out of the paint.

The advantage of him shooting 3's works both ways. If opponents guard him with a swing or a quicker player who can guard out to the line, he can pressure them on the offensive glass.  If they put a big on him, he can go outside and shoot it.

It's worth asking how good he needs to be from there for the strategy to be effective.

At low volume of only a couple threes per game, anything north of ~30% is probably sufficient to be a 'threat'.   It's not all that efficient, but as such a tiny slice of his overall shot profile that shouldn't matter.

If he increases the volume to 'Lopez-like' volumes of ~5+ threes per game, then that becomes a more significant share of his shot profile and efficiency on that shot becomes as important as the 'threat' benefit.  At that point, I think you need to be north of ~35% to make it worth doing.

Baynes shot 34% on 1.2 attempts per 16 minutes.  I feel like he wasn't completely ignored, but I'd like defenses to pay a little more attention than they did to him.  ~3 attempts in 26 minutes I think would do the trick if he can hit at > 34%
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Bench: Derrick Rose, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala Bob Pettit, Wes Unseld
Picks: 11(4), 12(9)

Re: Kanter pulling a Lopez
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2019, 11:20:10 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Missed 3s result in long rebounds and often high percentage opportunities going the other way.  I can't reference specific stats on that but it is my impression from watching games.

I don't think we need or want Kanter taking too many 3s.  I liked that he was also working on a little mid range.  That shot should be there for him.  All in all, looks like he is working hard.

I don't think he'll take too many 3s.  But I'd like for him to take ~2 per game, mostly just so that the threat of him shooting the 3 is always there which will stretch opposing defensive centers out of the paint.

The advantage of him shooting 3's works both ways. If opponents guard him with a swing or a quicker player who can guard out to the line, he can pressure them on the offensive glass.  If they put a big on him, he can go outside and shoot it.

It's worth asking how good he needs to be from there for the strategy to be effective.

At low volume of only a couple threes per game, anything north of ~30% is probably sufficient to be a 'threat'.   It's not all that efficient, but as such a tiny slice of his overall shot profile that shouldn't matter.

If he increases the volume to 'Lopez-like' volumes of ~5+ threes per game, then that becomes a more significant share of his shot profile and efficiency on that shot becomes as important as the 'threat' benefit.  At that point, I think you need to be north of ~35% to make it worth doing.

Baynes shot 34% on 1.2 attempts per 16 minutes.  I feel like he wasn't completely ignored, but I'd like defenses to pay a little more attention than they did to him.  ~3 attempts in 26 minutes I think would do the trick if he can hit at > 34%

You raise an interesting point: if he takes more, the defenses have to pay more attention.  But if the defenses are paying more attention, that means more of his shots are challenged, and the % likely goes down as well.

The more that defenses pay attention to him, the more open the lane is. there are a lot of moving parts here.
· Team executive on Brown’s future: “All-Star. Multiple times. Just like Jayson. Everyone loves Kawhi and PG as a wing duo. We think we have our own version growing right here in Boston. It’s gonna take a couple more years, but those guys are stars. And neither has an ego. They just want to play and win.”

 

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