Author Topic: Some Potential Talent to Obtain If We Need to Move Brown?  (Read 2281 times)

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Re: Some Potential Talent to Obtain If We Need to Move Brown?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2019, 10:24:30 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

  • Marcus Smart
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Celtics are done trading..they not trading Tatum, Brown or Hayward

I wouldnt be so sure about Hayward.

I firmly believe that he would be the first to go, if the offer was right, out of Kemba, Brown, Tatum. No way Danny has 4 untouchable players on his roster.

I dont believe that anyone is being shopped right now, but calls would definitely be answered, and offers for Hayward will be considered.
The key word in that sentence is "I".  you have a real mad-on for getting rid of Hayward.

barring a complete collapse this season which would include no improvement from Hayward, he's here for the duration of his deal.  even if the team has a meltdown this season and/or Hayward is still the same as last season, he's likely here for the full season since either (A) he's back to Utah Hayward or close and he's our best player for (B) he's not any better and it's very unlikely another team would see him as a valuable player/asset in a trade where they'll be paying him for another season and a half.

He will carry value at end of season as an expiring deal.
Good chance he will not put up Utah numbers, because team will be playing Kemba, Brown and Tatum all more minutes. He and Smart will be 4th/5th wings with minutes. We already know that Tatum nor Hayward works at PF, didnt work with a great defender like Al at center, wont work with centers like Poirer and Kanter.

So that means we have Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward all competing for 96 minutes per game at the sg/sf spot, with 20 minutes at the PF spot out of neccessity, and probably 10 minutes at the PG spot (Kemba 34 minutes, Edwards 5 minutes) That is 126 minutes.

Brown and tatum is a must at 34 minutes per game, they are the future of the celtics organization and have already been labelled that by coaching, management and ownership.

That leaves 58 minutes.

Langford Will get 10 minutes per game, he is a lotto pick, if they really like him more than most of the talent taken after him then he will get that.

So now down to 48 minutes between Smart and Hayward.

Smart has a career average of 27/game, so lets assume that it is at least 24 minutes a game. As the teams overall, by far, best game changging defender  24 minutes is almost to few and he should be at least 28, but lets say 24.

So that leaves around 24 minutes per game for gordon.

Again, lets assume he regains UTAH form (even though that is a long shot, and also lets assume that his Utah numbers translate over to differing positions of sg-sf-pf when in Utah he only played sf-sg) then he would be averaging 15.2, 2apg, 3.8rpg and getting paid 33 million per season.

There would be alot of value there in a trade as teams would see that not only is he an expiring, but he would be putting up the same per minute numbers as that 1 allstar season from Utah 3 years ago. That would have good trade value. More than Brown, who would be on a small, hard to match salary and due for an extension, or tatum who is untouchable like brown and is also a hard contract to match value wise due to the $

Hayward remains the most logical trade option,


and again, not saying team is shopping him, but they will listen to offers,.

Tatum was perfectly fine at PF in his rookie year, and he was perfectly fine there again last year.  He'll be perfectly fine there again this year.

And if Hayward comes back tgo even 85% of the player he was, then he absolutely will not be the 4th or 5th wing.  He will be either the #2 guy after Kemba or the #3 guy after Kemba and Tatum.  Even at 85% of his old self, Hayward is a much better player then the Jaylen Brown we've seen so far.

And Brown's contact is not that hard to match - nor is the fact that it's expiring an issue.  If a team wanted to trade for him it would be because they are intersted iin him as a long term part of their team and think he has major upside.  If so then why wouldn't they trade for him?  He'd be restricted so they could match any offer in free agency and would have no risk of losing him. 

And as was stated a couple of posts back, it doesn't really matter what pure numbers Hayward puts up.  I absolutely do not expect him to average 20 PPG or anything like that.  Even if he only puts up If he puts up something like 14 pts, 5 reb, 4 ast but does so while shooting efficiently from the field (say 47% / 39% / 82%) and playing quality defense - that's enough to ensure he'll be extremely valauble to the team.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 10:31:13 AM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Some Potential Talent to Obtain If We Need to Move Brown?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2019, 10:53:50 AM »

Offline Silky

  • NFT
  • Bailey Howell
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  • Posts: 2347
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Celtics are done trading..they not trading Tatum, Brown or Hayward

I wouldnt be so sure about Hayward.

I firmly believe that he would be the first to go, if the offer was right, out of Kemba, Brown, Tatum. No way Danny has 4 untouchable players on his roster.

I dont believe that anyone is being shopped right now, but calls would definitely be answered, and offers for Hayward will be considered.
The key word in that sentence is "I".  you have a real mad-on for getting rid of Hayward.

barring a complete collapse this season which would include no improvement from Hayward, he's here for the duration of his deal.  even if the team has a meltdown this season and/or Hayward is still the same as last season, he's likely here for the full season since either (A) he's back to Utah Hayward or close and he's our best player for (B) he's not any better and it's very unlikely another team would see him as a valuable player/asset in a trade where they'll be paying him for another season and a half.

He will carry value at end of season as an expiring deal.
Good chance he will not put up Utah numbers, because team will be playing Kemba, Brown and Tatum all more minutes. He and Smart will be 4th/5th wings with minutes. We already know that Tatum nor Hayward works at PF, didnt work with a great defender like Al at center, wont work with centers like Poirer and Kanter.

So that means we have Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward all competing for 96 minutes per game at the sg/sf spot, with 20 minutes at the PF spot out of neccessity, and probably 10 minutes at the PG spot (Kemba 34 minutes, Edwards 5 minutes) That is 126 minutes.

Brown and tatum is a must at 34 minutes per game, they are the future of the celtics organization and have already been labelled that by coaching, management and ownership.

That leaves 58 minutes.

Langford Will get 10 minutes per game, he is a lotto pick, if they really like him more than most of the talent taken after him then he will get that.

So now down to 48 minutes between Smart and Hayward.

Smart has a career average of 27/game, so lets assume that it is at least 24 minutes a game. As the teams overall, by far, best game changging defender  24 minutes is almost to few and he should be at least 28, but lets say 24.

So that leaves around 24 minutes per game for gordon.

Again, lets assume he regains UTAH form (even though that is a long shot, and also lets assume that his Utah numbers translate over to differing positions of sg-sf-pf when in Utah he only played sf-sg) then he would be averaging 15.2, 2apg, 3.8rpg and getting paid 33 million per season.

There would be alot of value there in a trade as teams would see that not only is he an expiring, but he would be putting up the same per minute numbers as that 1 allstar season from Utah 3 years ago. That would have good trade value. More than Brown, who would be on a small, hard to match salary and due for an extension, or tatum who is untouchable like brown and is also a hard contract to match value wise due to the $

Hayward remains the most logical trade option,


and again, not saying team is shopping him, but they will listen to offers,.

Tatum was perfectly fine at PF in his rookie year, and he was perfectly fine there again last year.  He'll be perfectly fine there again this year.

And if Hayward comes back tgo even 85% of the player he was, then he absolutely will not be the 4th or 5th wing.  He will be either the #2 guy after Kemba or the #3 guy after Kemba and Tatum.  Even at 85% of his old self, Hayward is a much better player then the Jaylen Brown we've seen so far.

And Brown's contact is not that hard to match - nor is the fact that it's expiring an issue.  If a team wanted to trade for him it would be because they are intersted iin him as a long term part of their team and think he has major upside.  If so then why wouldn't they trade for him?  He'd be restricted so they could match any offer in free agency and would have no risk of losing him. 

And as was stated a couple of posts back, it doesn't really matter what pure numbers Hayward puts up.  I absolutely do not expect him to average 20 PPG or anything like that.  Even if he only puts up If he puts up something like 14 pts, 5 reb, 4 ast but does so while shooting efficiently from the field (say 47% / 39% / 82%) and playing quality defense - that's enough to ensure he'll be extremely valauble to the team.

tatum's numbers are all down when he is a power forward. there is a reason why Morris was playing at PF for a majority of the season and not Tatum.

If hayward was able to return to 85% of Utah, then he would be 18ppg, 4.5 and 3 @34 minutes.
Jalen in 34 minutes last season was 17.5, 5 and 2 on vastly superior defense
Tatum at 34 minutes is 17.5, 6.6 and 2.3

So its debateable that 85% of Utah gordon being 2nd best player, and either way, its not good for the teams future for Hayward to take time and opportunity from the Jays.

14,5and 4 on those numbers is basically what Terry Rozier averaged 2 seasons ago as a starter, not "extremely valuable"

Re: Some Potential Talent to Obtain If We Need to Move Brown?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2019, 11:06:53 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • Bill Russell
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For a franchise center ...one who is looking to leave and his team needs to get something before he walks .   Like we hoped with with AD ....but as usual the Lakers always get first pick on big centers. >:(

Re: Some Potential Talent to Obtain If We Need to Move Brown?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2019, 11:30:14 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
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I think if the team were to trade Jaylen, it would make sense to target a player who is cost controlled for a few years and already somewhat established.  The Celts already have a lot of young guys.  On top of that you'd hope to get a pick just to pad the future assets given that you're losing a young guy.


Hopefully the Celts won't have to trade him because he'll look so good this season that it will be obvious he's a core piece moving forward.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

 

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