What does your ideal second unit look like next season?

[JBcat]

I want to stick to a roughly 8 man rotation to start the season.  This will allow our best players to get into a rhythm, and as our young players improve we can always expand our rotation.  So not a traditional 2nd unit.

Something like this for minutes.

PG Walker 32 Smart 16
SG Brown 32 Smart 16
SF Tatum 32 Hayward 16
PF Hayward 16
3 or 4 bigs divide remaining 80 PF/C minutes.

Our best players are playing roughly 32 minutes each.   I think this might help them develop a better flow to the game. Edwards, Semi ect can play spot minutes when needed for foul trouble, injuries, matchups but not regular rotation minutes to start the season.

[PAOBoston]

I know Stevens often tinkers with rotations early on in years to see what works. Coming off of last year, I’m honestly not sure if he is going to go that route. I think they are going to establish a core group of guys and then sort of figure out the remaining spots. I’d say Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Smart/Kanter/Theis/Poirier/Wanamaker round out the top 9. Then it’s picking between a bunch of rookies and Semi for the remaining at wing/guard. Out of the rookies, I expect Grant Williams to likely get the most playing time. The rest along with Timelord will be going back and forth to Maine.

[Tr1boy]

I want to stick to a roughly 8 man rotation to start the season.  This will allow our best players to get into a rhythm, and as our young players improve we can always expand our rotation.  So not a traditional 2nd unit.

Something like this for minutes.

PG Walker 32 Smart 16
SG Brown 32 Smart 16
SF Tatum 32 Hayward 16
PF Hayward 16
3 or 4 bigs divide remaining 80 PF/C minutes.

Our best players are playing roughly 32 minutes each.   I think this might help them develop a better flow to the game. Edwards, Semi ect can play spot minutes when needed for foul trouble, injuries, matchups but not regular rotation minutes to start the season.

Carsen Edwards will get more mins than you think

Romeo Langford could also surprise ...but Edwards will definitely get mins I predict

Grant Williams will also get mins

[chiken]

Smart
Edwards
Langford
G Williams
R  Williams

Might as well get the Fire started..

[Celtics4ever]

My ideal 2nd unit wouldn't be littered with inexperienced NBA youth, many of which have never played a second in the NBA. So for this year, I don't have an ideal 2nd unit.

Rookies break into the league every year and this is the norm, not the exception.   I think folks need to realize we are not a championship caliber team with an ideal roster, that won't be as tight last year.   There should be some player development this year.  I hope I am wrong about that but I really think our second unit will have several rookies called upon to score.   Langford and Edwards especially.

What is ideal, will not apply, because you play what you have, not what you wish you have....

[nickagneta]

My ideal 2nd unit wouldn't be littered with inexperienced NBA youth, many of which have never played a second in the NBA. So for this year, I don't have an ideal 2nd unit.

Rookies break into the league every year and this is the norm, not the exception.   I think folks need to realize we are not a championship caliber team with an ideal roster, that won't be as tight last year.   There should be some player development this year.  I hope I am wrong about that but I really think our second unit will have several rookies called upon to score.   Langford and Edwards especially.

What is ideal, will not apply, because you play what you have, not what you wish you have....

Having a couple rookies is normal. Having 5 rookies on the 15 man roster, 2 more rookies on 2 way contracts, 2 sophomore players that played a combined 620 minutes last year and 2 3rd year players that played limited minutes in their two years is not normal. It means you have one of the least experienced benches in the league in this or any year.

[ChillyWilly]

My ideal 2nd unit wouldn't be littered with inexperienced NBA youth, many of which have never played a second in the NBA. So for this year, I don't have an ideal 2nd unit.

Rookies break into the league every year and this is the norm, not the exception.   I think folks need to realize we are not a championship caliber team with an ideal roster, that won't be as tight last year.   There should be some player development this year.  I hope I am wrong about that but I really think our second unit will have several rookies called upon to score.   Langford and Edwards especially.

What is ideal, will not apply, because you play what you have, not what you wish you have....

Having a couple rookies is normal. Having 5 rookies on the 15 man roster, 2 more rookies on 2 way contracts, 2 sophomore players that played a combined 620 minutes last year and 2 3rd year players that played limited minutes in their two years is not normal. It means you have one of the least experienced benches in the league in this or any year.

And yet we should win more games this season. Weird right?

[Vermont Green]

The team as currently constructed has 5 players whose natural positions is PG, SG or SF, and that arguably have starter level talent; Walker, Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum.  Then we have about 5 bigs who will see regular rotation minutes; Kanter, Theis, Ojeleye, RWilliams, Poirier (I am leaving out GWill as a rookie) where only one of them has any real track record as a starter.

I think these are the 10 players who will see the vast majority of non-garbage time minutes.  Last season, the Celtics played about 2/3 of the time with two bigs on the court (I am including Morris as a big), with the most used line up by far being Irving-Smart-Tatum-Morris-Horford (495 min).  So was that the "first" unit?  That was not usually the starting unit or at least not always.

So after explaining the context of my mental construct of what "first" unit means, I think the "first" unit (not necessarily the starting unit) may well mirror last season and be Walker-Smart-Tatum-Theis, Kanter so the "second" unit would be the remaining 5 of Brown-Hayward-Ojeleye-RWill-Poirier, which isn't really a unit at all.

Now if you look at  this another way, you could say who are the 5 players that play the most minutes and then 6-10 in terms of minutes.  It turns out that the top 5 unit from last season also played the most minutes as individuals.  This upcoming season, the 2nd big role may be  more split up and spread out as opposed to Morris getting most of those minutes and Brown or Hayward may get more minutes than Smart (or similar minutes to Smart) but I think in the end, things will be pretty similar to last season for the main units usage.

[Who]

I want Poirier to start at center. He is an off the ball player, a low usage offensive player and hopefully a better defensive player than Kanter.

My bench is led by Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter. Smart is a 6th man of the year candidate and Kanter isn't far behind. They will do the heavy lifting from the bench and allow the others to find smaller niche roles next to them.

Carsen Edwards is my 8th man. I expect good things from him next season. He will play 15-18mpg backing up Kemba Walker at PG with Smart's playing time coming exclusively at SG.

PG - Carsen Edwards
SG - Marcus Smart
 C - Enes Kanter

From there, it is situational subs.

I expect Grant Williams to be the next most dependable contributor off the bench but I worry about fit next to Kanter and Poirier because none of those guys (Grant Williams included) have a reliable 3 point shot. I think that will effect Grant Williams' minutes.

Semi Ojeleye as a PF/SF who gets spot minutes for man defense and perimeter shooting.

Theis gets spot minutes as a 3rd string C when Celtics need a center who can make a perimeter jump-shot or need more mobility on defense in defending perimeter bigs and/or team defense situations where switching is the priority.

Rob Williams also as a 3rd string center. He is more similar to Poirier which I think will hurt Rob Williams because Poirier is surely more advanced considering the level he was playing at in Europe. So I think Rob Williams is most likely to be bottom of the totem pole here.

Romeo Langford another 3rd string SG/SF. His minutes will depend on how many perimeter jump-shots he can make. But the real problem for me is Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward. They are going to gobble up so many minutes at SG and SF that there won't be much leftover for Langford to play -- which is a shame because I'd like to see him on the floor.

So my bench is led by Smart and Kanter with Edwards as support. Then everyone else is basically a 3rd string situational sub who offer different things that Stevens has to rotate in and out of the team depending on the opposition. Not ideal.

Out of those players, I'd say Semi has a leg up on the competition in terms of being the most reliable two way player at PF/SF with Grant Williams his strongest competition. If one of those 2 guys can separate themselves from the pack, Boston should have a steady 9 man rotation.

An alternative would be to drop Carsen Edwards and play Smart at PG. That would create minutes for Langford. And if Langford can make enough jump-shots, that can happen. However, at this point, I believe Edwards is the more reliable contributor. You would also have to ensure Hayward is out there next to Smart to help run the offense while Kemba sits.

[Tr1boy]

Rotation
Poirier or Robert Williams
Grant Williams
Smart
Edwards

Spot mins
Semi
Theis

Garbage time/Maine
Waters
Langford

[gpap]

Good question

This would be my depth chart

Starting unit
Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Kanter

Second unit
Smart/Langford/Grant Williams/Theis/Robert Williams

Third unit
Edwards/Wannamaker/Ojeleye/Poirier/Tacko

I would think this would be our 15 man roster, right?

[Silky]

I am starting to lean towards Poirier starting to better balance out the lineup.

so starters are:

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier.

Gives you 3 scorers, 3 defenders, 2 role players who score opportunistically.

Primary bench is

edwards
Langford
Hayward
Williams
Kanter

Scoring from all positions, well balanced between vets and Rookies, Hayward runs the show off the bench.


Closing lineups will use Kemba, Kanter and 3 of the best performers for the night between Smart/Brown/Tatum and Hayward.

I also would expect to see some end of game offensive lineups of Kemba/Smart/Brown/Hayward/Tatum

[JBcat]

I want Poirier to start at center. He is an off the ball player, a low usage offensive player and hopefully a better defensive player than Kanter.

My bench is led by Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter. Smart is a 6th man of the year candidate and Kanter isn't far behind. They will do the heavy lifting from the bench and allow the others to find smaller niche roles next to them.

Carsen Edwards is my 8th man. I expect good things from him next season. He will play 15-18mpg backing up Kemba Walker at PG with Smart's playing time coming exclusively at SG.

PG - Carsen Edwards
SG - Marcus Smart
 C - Enes Kanter

From there, it is situational subs.

I expect Grant Williams to be the next most dependable contributor off the bench but I worry about fit next to Kanter and Poirier because none of those guys (Grant Williams included) have a reliable 3 point shot. I think that will effect Grant Williams' minutes.

Semi Ojeleye as a PF/SF who gets spot minutes for man defense and perimeter shooting.

Theis gets spot minutes as a 3rd string C when Celtics need a center who can make a perimeter jump-shot or need more mobility on defense in defending perimeter bigs and/or team defense situations where switching is the priority.

Rob Williams also as a 3rd string center. He is more similar to Poirier which I think will hurt Rob Williams because Poirier is surely more advanced considering the level he was playing at in Europe. So I think Rob Williams is most likely to be bottom of the totem pole here.

Romeo Langford another 3rd string SG/SF. His minutes will depend on how many perimeter jump-shots he can make. But the real problem for me is Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward. They are going to gobble up so many minutes at SG and SF that there won't be much leftover for Langford to play -- which is a shame because I'd like to see him on the floor.

So my bench is led by Smart and Kanter with Edwards as support. Then everyone else is basically a 3rd string situational sub who offer different things that Stevens has to rotate in and out of the team depending on the opposition. Not ideal.

Out of those players, I'd say Semi has a leg up on the competition in terms of being the most reliable two way player at PF/SF with Grant Williams his strongest competition. If one of those 2 guys can separate themselves from the pack, Boston should have a steady 9 man rotation.

An alternative would be to drop Carsen Edwards and play Smart at PG. That would create minutes for Langford. And if Langford can make enough jump-shots, that can happen. However, at this point, I believe Edwards is the more reliable contributor. You would also have to ensure Hayward is out there next to Smart to help run the offense while Kemba sits.

Question.  So you don’t want Smart to get any PG minutes?  I think part of the problem we had last year is we had 1 or 2 too many guys fighting for shots.  I’d like Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward all get lower 30 MPG between PG, SG, SF, and maybe 10 to 20 minutes at PF.  I think it can help all of them get into a better rhythm.  That just about eats up all backup PG minutes for Smart. Maybe bring Edwards along slowly for spot minutes.

[Who]

I want Poirier to start at center. He is an off the ball player, a low usage offensive player and hopefully a better defensive player than Kanter.

My bench is led by Marcus Smart and Enes Kanter. Smart is a 6th man of the year candidate and Kanter isn't far behind. They will do the heavy lifting from the bench and allow the others to find smaller niche roles next to them.

Carsen Edwards is my 8th man. I expect good things from him next season. He will play 15-18mpg backing up Kemba Walker at PG with Smart's playing time coming exclusively at SG.

PG - Carsen Edwards
SG - Marcus Smart
 C - Enes Kanter

From there, it is situational subs.

I expect Grant Williams to be the next most dependable contributor off the bench but I worry about fit next to Kanter and Poirier because none of those guys (Grant Williams included) have a reliable 3 point shot. I think that will effect Grant Williams' minutes.

Semi Ojeleye as a PF/SF who gets spot minutes for man defense and perimeter shooting.

Theis gets spot minutes as a 3rd string C when Celtics need a center who can make a perimeter jump-shot or need more mobility on defense in defending perimeter bigs and/or team defense situations where switching is the priority.

Rob Williams also as a 3rd string center. He is more similar to Poirier which I think will hurt Rob Williams because Poirier is surely more advanced considering the level he was playing at in Europe. So I think Rob Williams is most likely to be bottom of the totem pole here.

Romeo Langford another 3rd string SG/SF. His minutes will depend on how many perimeter jump-shots he can make. But the real problem for me is Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward. They are going to gobble up so many minutes at SG and SF that there won't be much leftover for Langford to play -- which is a shame because I'd like to see him on the floor.

So my bench is led by Smart and Kanter with Edwards as support. Then everyone else is basically a 3rd string situational sub who offer different things that Stevens has to rotate in and out of the team depending on the opposition. Not ideal.

Out of those players, I'd say Semi has a leg up on the competition in terms of being the most reliable two way player at PF/SF with Grant Williams his strongest competition. If one of those 2 guys can separate themselves from the pack, Boston should have a steady 9 man rotation.

An alternative would be to drop Carsen Edwards and play Smart at PG. That would create minutes for Langford. And if Langford can make enough jump-shots, that can happen. However, at this point, I believe Edwards is the more reliable contributor. You would also have to ensure Hayward is out there next to Smart to help run the offense while Kemba sits.

Question.  So you don’t want Smart to get any PG minutes?  I think part of the problem we had last year is we had 1 or 2 too many guys fighting for shots.  I’d like Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward all get lower 30 MPG between PG, SG, SF, and maybe 10 to 20 minutes at PF.  I think it can help all of them get into a better rhythm.  That just about eats up all backup PG minutes for Smart. Maybe bring Edwards along slowly for spot minutes.

I want to have (at least) 2 ball-handlers on the floor at all times.

I like Smart more as a SG than a PG. I think Smart was a top 10 SG in the league last season. As a PG, I'd say he's around 16-19th.

As a PG, I feel Smart lacks quickness in both the open court (pushing the ball and getting transition opportunities for his team) and in the half court as a dribble drive threat (manufacturing drive and kick opportunities). So I feel it is important to have a 2nd playmaker next to him.

Oftentimes, this is easiest accomplished by putting a PG next to him. However, Hayward could fill this role also.

The offense just isn't dynamic enough with Smart as the main creator (because he himself isn't a dynamic enough offensive player). I like Smart better when he is the secondary playmaker.

-------------

I fully expect this team to have a problem again this season in terms of players fighting for shots. I don't think this team is well built for teamwork. You need more than good characters for chemistry. You need players that fit one another in terms of their skill-set and I think this team has both (1) too many flaws / holes and (2) overlapping skill-set.

[Evantime34]

I expect the majority of the offense and offensive creation to come from Jaylen, Jayson, Hayward and Kemba. I expect all those players to start but I also want the substitutions staggered so one of those players is on the court at all times.

Marcus Smart should come off the bench since he's the only guard behind Kemba I want running the offense as the 1. While the starters will lean heavy on offense, I expect the bench units to be defense focused.

Game to game the second unit will use some combination of Smart, Edwards, Semi, Grant Williams, Poirier and Theis. More often than not I think Stevens will use a 9 man rotation with Jaylen, Jayson, Hayward, Kemba and Smart playing 28+ minutes.