Rumor: Celtics quickly turned down Hayward trade offer

[PAOBoston]

Not sure why they would even consider selling low on this guy. They are betting he gets back to form. If healthy, he’s probably their best overall player.

[Muzzy66]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

Why wouldn't they expect more? 

So many people on this forum are incredibly down on Hayward, and I really don't understand why. People talk about him as if he is either:
a) A young prospect who is yet to prove himself, and we're all just hoping he pans out or
b) An over the hill 34 year old vet who just can't play anymore

It makes no sense.

1. Hayward is 28 years old, just entering in to the prime of his career
2. Hayward made an All-Star team prior to coming here and is a proven scorer, having put together 3 consecutive 19+ PG seasons before he came here
3. Hayward suffered a really, really nasty injury in his first game as a Celtic

Hayward last season had to deal with:
- The physical aspect of recovering from his injury (dealing with pain, building strength and durability, et)
- The mental aspect of recovering from his injury (getting the confidence to attack without fear, etc)
- The rust of having not played for a year (had to get conditioning back, rhythm back, etc)
- The challenge of building chemistry with with a group of guys he had only previously played about 12 minutes with

That's a lot to overcome in one year, and he clearly got a lot better towards the end. 

Now he's had a full training camp, he's had a full season playing with many of these guys, he's had time to adjust to Brad's coaching style, he's had plenty of time to recover from the injury.

I don't necessarily expect him to come back and average 22 PPG like he did in his All-Star season when he was at his best, but I can't see any reason why he can't come out of the gates at around 85% of who he was, averagin maybe 16 - 17 PPG and gradually working his way back to 100% as the season progresses. 

And 2016 Gordon Hayward, even at 85%, is a really good player.

[Muzzy66]

Stop backseat moderating and please scroll past my posts but I am not the person who made up that rumor. Sorry. Aint got that kind of pull.

I make alot of posts and only a percentage of them were proposed Hayward trades. Mostly because I feel he is redundant on this team with tatum. You can disagree, and that is cool, but telling someone to stop posting is arrogant and rude.

Look it sucks to get criticized, but that's not moderating. But I do think you should contemplate how often you beat the same horse with a stick.

Still a whole lot of off season to go everyone!

If there is threads started and moving along I will add my 2 cents.

Its the reason for a forum.

I dont think a person should be told to not post because another poster doesnt like the subject.

I'm with you on this. 

We don't all agree with everything that every person posts.  We have the freedom to debate those subjects we do not agree on.  I don't think it's fair to tell people what they can and can't say. 

[keevsnick]

This rumor doesn't really mean anything without some context. Judging by the actual quote it sounds like some team thought they could get hayward cheap, maybe basically as a dumped contract, and were shot down. That makes sense, dumping Hayward as a negative value asset (with a first) or even as a neutral asset (into cap space) doesn't make a lot of sense for the Celtics who weren't gonna use that money any better this offseason anyway. Its better to gamble that he returns to form. Now what would happen if a team was willing to give something up for him? Thats more interesting. Tho I doubt there is any team that would right now.

Now I'm not as high on Hayward as some people. He looked slow last season, he's 29 and gonna be 30 this season which is athletically at least the point where a guy starts to decline. I tend to believe he will be better this year, but its not a guarantee. If he is a lot better than he's gonna opt out and you have to decide if you wnat to pay him at age 30. he plays the same position your two young guys play. To me he mad a lot more sense when the Celtics were looking to set up a championship team.

All that said its still probably a smarter approach to just keep him and hope he gets good again. 

[Muzzy66]

This rumor doesn't really mean anything without some context. Judging by the actual quote it sounds like some team thought they could get hayward cheap, maybe basically as a dumped contract, and were shot down. That makes sense, dumping Hayward as a negative value asset (with a first) or even as a neutral asset (into cap space) doesn't make a lot of sense for the Celtics who weren't gonna use that money any better this offseason anyway. Its better to gamble that he returns to form. Now what would happen if a team was willing to give something up for him? Thats more interesting. Tho I doubt there is any team that would right now.

Now I'm not as high on Hayward as some people. He looked slow last season, he's 29 and gonna be 30 this season which is athletically at least the point where a guy starts to decline. I tend to believe he will be better this year, but its not a guarantee. If he is a lot better than he's gonna opt out and you have to decide if you wnat to pay him at age 30. he plays the same position your two young guys play. To me he mad a lot more sense when the Celtics were looking to set up a championship team.

All that said its still probably a smarter approach to just keep him and hope he gets good again.

I think the big problem when it concerns Hayward, is that his relationship with Brad Stevens creates a conflict of interest. 

I was never a huge fan of Boston going after Hayward.  I felt he was a "good" player, but that there were significantly better players (e.g. George, Butler) available at the same position.  I never felt he was good enough to be a game changer, however I felt he could be a nice #3 guy.

I feel Brad's personal relationship had a lot to do with why the signing happened - and to be fair it wasn't a bad signing at the time, I just felt there were better opportunities available that Ainge passed on.

I also feel that Brad's personal relationship had a lot to do with why Hayward was seemingly force-fed back in to the line up last season when he may not have been ready....

And I also think Brad's personal relationship will make it very difficult for Boston to actually trade Hayward unless it is a situation where it is for the mutual benefit of both parties.  I.e. If Boston decides they are better off by trading Hayward, but it would involve putting Hayward in a worse position, then I feel Brad's relationship with him would prevent that from happening. 

I couldn't see Ainge pulling a "Isaiah Thomas" or "Aaron Baynes" type move with Hayward, as I think that out of respect for Brad he would make sure Hayward is in a good place.

My big problem with that is it the lack of consistency. 

What Ainge did to Thomas was justified based on the whole argument that "in this business you need to do what is best for the team no matter what, and can't let emotions impact decisions".  And I think that is actually a fair argument.  But it's only a fair argument if you deal with every single player that same way.  If you give a guy like Hayward special treatment for sentimental reasons (i.e. because he is close to the coach) then that entire argument goes down the toilet, and suddenly you look like a real butthole for doing what you did to Isaiah.

I hope I am wrong and that Danny would do what he had to do for the team, even when it comes to Hayward, but I have my doubts.

[sirnastee]

This rumor doesn't really mean anything without some context. Judging by the actual quote it sounds like some team thought they could get hayward cheap, maybe basically as a dumped contract, and were shot down. That makes sense, dumping Hayward as a negative value asset (with a first) or even as a neutral asset (into cap space) doesn't make a lot of sense for the Celtics who weren't gonna use that money any better this offseason anyway. Its better to gamble that he returns to form. Now what would happen if a team was willing to give something up for him? Thats more interesting. Tho I doubt there is any team that would right now.

Now I'm not as high on Hayward as some people. He looked slow last season, he's 29 and gonna be 30 this season which is athletically at least the point where a guy starts to decline. I tend to believe he will be better this year, but its not a guarantee. If he is a lot better than he's gonna opt out and you have to decide if you wnat to pay him at age 30. he plays the same position your two young guys play. To me he mad a lot more sense when the Celtics were looking to set up a championship team.

All that said its still probably a smarter approach to just keep him and hope he gets good again.

I think the big problem when it concerns Hayward, is that his relationship with Brad Stevens creates a conflict of interest. 

I was never a huge fan of Boston going after Hayward.  I felt he was a "good" player, but that there were significantly better players (e.g. George, Butler) available at the same position.  I never felt he was good enough to be a game changer, however I felt he could be a nice #3 guy.

I feel Brad's personal relationship had a lot to do with why the signing happened - and to be fair it wasn't a bad signing at the time, I just felt there were better opportunities available that Ainge passed on.

I also feel that Brad's personal relationship had a lot to do with why Hayward was seemingly force-fed back in to the line up last season when he may not have been ready....

And I also think Brad's personal relationship will make it very difficult for Boston to actually trade Hayward unless it is a situation where it is for the mutual benefit of both parties.  I.e. If Boston decides they are better off by trading Hayward, but it would involve putting Hayward in a worse position, then I feel Brad's relationship with him would prevent that from happening. 

I couldn't see Ainge pulling a "Isaiah Thomas" or "Aaron Baynes" type move with Hayward, as I think that out of respect for Brad he would make sure Hayward is in a good place.

My big problem with that is it the lack of consistency. 

What Ainge did to Thomas was justified based on the whole argument that "in this business you need to do what is best for the team no matter what, and can't let emotions impact decisions".  And I think that is actually a fair argument.  But it's only a fair argument if you deal with every single player that same way.  If you give a guy like Hayward special treatment for sentimental reasons (i.e. because he is close to the coach) then that entire argument goes down the toilet, and suddenly you look like a real butthole for doing what you did to Isaiah.

I hope I am wrong and that Danny would do what he had to do for the team, even when it comes to Hayward, but I have my doubts.

I don't think Danny will give Gordon special treatment for his relationship with Brad.  Danny is strictly business, and if Gordon raises his trade value this season, and there is an opportunity for a trade that would benefit the team, I think Danny does it.  As others have mentioned, Danny just won't trade him now because Gordon's value is at an all time low.  Even if he doesn't improve from last season, his value will only increase as the length of his contract will decrease.  Everyone blames Brad for force feeding Gordon minutes, but I don't think that necessarily had to with favoritism.  Gordon's confidence and recovery back to his former self was key to our championship aspirations.  You can insert any other star that is recovering from a gruesome injury here, and I think Brad would still have done what he did for Gordon, by trying to force feed him minutes to help his confidence and recovery.  I think the most interesting thing to watch for this season in terms of a possible Gordon trade is the two big men on the Pacers.  We have a log jam in wings and they have a log jam in big men.  If Sabonis and Turner cannot mesh together and Gordon plays well to start out the season, I think a Gordon for Turner trade would be a perfect trade for both teams.  Salaries aren't far apart, and  Gordon will be sent back home to Indiana, making a nice core with Oladipo and Sabonis, while Turner gives us a three point shooting shot blocking center.

[TDurden]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

Why wouldn't they expect more? 

It makes no sense.

Hayward last season had to deal with:
- The physical aspect of recovering from his injury (dealing with pain, building strength and durability, et)
- The mental aspect of recovering from his injury (getting the confidence to attack without fear, etc)
- The rust of having not played for a year (had to get conditioning back, rhythm back, etc)
- The challenge of building chemistry with with a group of guys he had only previously played about 12 minutes with

That's a lot to overcome in one year, and he clearly got a lot better towards the end. 

I think the mental weakness you allude to is what people are hung up on.  It's possible that Hayward is just a nice kid without the requisite toughness to bounce back from an injury like that.     

Don't forget that this is the guy who choked away the national championship game in the last minute in college... https://youtu.be/IuL81v10jLM?t=108

[gouki88]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

Why wouldn't they expect more? 

It makes no sense.

Hayward last season had to deal with:
- The physical aspect of recovering from his injury (dealing with pain, building strength and durability, et)
- The mental aspect of recovering from his injury (getting the confidence to attack without fear, etc)
- The rust of having not played for a year (had to get conditioning back, rhythm back, etc)
- The challenge of building chemistry with with a group of guys he had only previously played about 12 minutes with

That's a lot to overcome in one year, and he clearly got a lot better towards the end. 

I think the mental weakness you allude to is what people are hung up on.  It's possible that Hayward is just a nice kid without the requisite toughness to bounce back from an injury like that.     

Don't forget that this is the guy who choked away the national championship game in the last minute in college... https://youtu.be/IuL81v10jLM?t=108

Rofl

[GreenEnvy]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

Why wouldn't they expect more? 

It makes no sense.

Hayward last season had to deal with:
- The physical aspect of recovering from his injury (dealing with pain, building strength and durability, et)
- The mental aspect of recovering from his injury (getting the confidence to attack without fear, etc)
- The rust of having not played for a year (had to get conditioning back, rhythm back, etc)
- The challenge of building chemistry with with a group of guys he had only previously played about 12 minutes with

That's a lot to overcome in one year, and he clearly got a lot better towards the end. 

I think the mental weakness you allude to is what people are hung up on.  It's possible that Hayward is just a nice kid without the requisite toughness to bounce back from an injury like that.     

Don't forget that this is the guy who choked away the national championship game in the last minute in college... https://youtu.be/IuL81v10jLM?t=108

Truly masterful troll attempt. Someone so new can’t be that good. What’s your other/previous username?

[nickagneta]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

Why wouldn't they expect more? 

It makes no sense.

Hayward last season had to deal with:
- The physical aspect of recovering from his injury (dealing with pain, building strength and durability, et)
- The mental aspect of recovering from his injury (getting the confidence to attack without fear, etc)
- The rust of having not played for a year (had to get conditioning back, rhythm back, etc)
- The challenge of building chemistry with with a group of guys he had only previously played about 12 minutes with

That's a lot to overcome in one year, and he clearly got a lot better towards the end. 

I think the mental weakness you allude to is what people are hung up on.  It's possible that Hayward is just a nice kid without the requisite toughness to bounce back from an injury like that.     

Don't forget that this is the guy who choked away the national championship game in the last minute in college... https://youtu.be/IuL81v10jLM?t=108

Muzzy never mentioned mental weakness. He mentioned Hayward had to deal with the mental aspect of the injury. Every person that goes through trauma has to deal with the mental aspect of that trauma.

That doesn't mean they are mentally weak. It's just means that besides the physical aspect of a trauma you have to deal with the mental aspect also so you can be fully healed.

My son had cancer as a kid. He went through hell for a few years. He beat cancer. But in his early 20's signs of PTSD emerged because of the trauma he went through as a child. He beat that in time too. He wasn't weak because he got or had to deal with PTSD. He is, probably one of the mentally strongest and bravest people I know.

Dealing with the mental aspects of any trauma doesn't equate to mentally weak.

[nickagneta]

What’s your other/previous username?

I think we should ask that question to a bunch of newer users.

Sorry...mod venting.

[tenn_smoothie]

Story makes it sound like Danny is not interested in trading Hayward, Brown or Hayward. I hope that is true.
Why do so many fans want to trade away young, talented players ?

[tenn_smoothie]

Hayward is as close to untouchable as anybody in the league just because of his ties to Brad. Danny might be a wheeler and dealer but Hayward is going nowhere unless he asks for it. I don't know why we keep seeing Hayward trade talk around the web. It isn't happening regardless of where his value sits.

I don't think there is any evidence that Stevens has irrational loyalty to Hayward, or that Ainge would also facilitate it. There are plenty of very rational reasons why the team would want to do what it has done so far. The contract only gives a team n ext year guaranteed, with a player option the year after. The state of his comeback is highly fluid. Ainge is famously focused on value and I'm quite certain he hasn't received an offer that was worth moving him.

He's not here because he's Steven's binkie.

Whether Hayward is protected by his relationship with Stevens or not, it would be stupid to trade away a player who was acquired as a prize free agent after choosing the Celts over other suitors. It would just add to the reputation Ainge has around the league for being just a cold-blooded manager of prime flesh.

[Celtics4ever]

Whether Hayward is protected by his relationship with Stevens or not, it would be stupid to trade away a player who was acquired as a prize free agent after choosing the Celts over other suitors

Agree, but you've been here a while and you know the 2k mentality of a lot of the fans.

[SHAQATTACK]

Just came across this article on yahoo and didn't see it posted:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-celtics-quickly-shot-down-232310425.html

If true this should put the 'Hayward for...' trade talk around here. Seems like Brad and Danny have hope he'll do more this season then just stand at the baseline and watch Kyrie dribble into traffic all game.

I saw rumors of Hayward for Mo Bamba and Fournier recently, assumed it was just speculation but maybe there was some truth to it. Or perhaps the Hayward and draft picks to cleveland for love rumors? 

I am still big on Hayward, he was one of my favorite players to watch while in Utah. I am hopeful that he and Kemba have a good chemistry and take off. I could also see him running point/fwd as a 6th man this season. I do have a feeling he'll start the season as our 6th man.

We should trade Hayward for Obama.

doesn't work on the trade machine