Welcome Romeo Langford to the Celtics

[Erik]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

[Erik]

In the PnR, even if your opponent goes under the screen and you do not get separation, you still have options.

(1) use the pick again. Tony Parker was a master of this. Teams didn't respect his jumper. Instead of taking what was low to medium efficiency shot for him. TP used the pick multiple times getting closer to the basket each time trying to set up his drive or to get a closer shot (18 footer instead of 23 footer) that he could make more of.

(2) Fake the pick, drive the other way. Harden is brilliant at this. You never know which way he is going off of a pick. Harden can shoot the 3 too which causes even more problems for his defender.


(3) Or if the team just switches the pick instead. Langford has had a lot of success in isolations. So him forcing a switch and getting a slower big man on him is a valuable action for Celtics too.


It is not like team's are going to be loading up on Langford either. He will be the 3rd, 4th, 5th option on offense when he is on the floor at the start of his NBA career. A lot of his PnRs will come out of situations where other offensive actions have already happened that opposing teams will be responding to.

1) That is called a screen, not a pick and roll. And you’re referring to one of the greatest at it. If you think that the offense will be screens for Langford, you’re mistaken.

2) The fake works if you can back it up with a legit 3 point threat. If you’re garbage at 3s you aren’t faking anything. They know where you’re going.

3) Again, teams will only switch if you can nail the 3. You think they switch because they have to? You force them to switch to take away the 3. If they can’t hit the 3 they’ll disengage the pick or setup lower to stop the drive.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Why do I have a feeling that Romeo Langford is an insurance pick in case Jaylen Brown gets traded...

Brown is due to get paid next season, and he could command some big money.

[Erik]

I take back what I said above. Ball screens for Langford to move into the midrange might actually be effective. Maybe like Derozan. It still won’t be a high pick and roll.

[dreamgreen]

Why do I have a feeling that Romeo Langford is an insurance pick in case Jaylen Brown gets traded...

Brown is due to get paid next season, and he could command some big money.

This is the only thing that makes sense. I would speculate we would trade for a PG.

[GreenShooter]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

No one is a worse shooter than Simmons, especially for the position he plays. Don't go and say "Robert Williams III" or someone like that. They don't play the same position.
Edit: Langford is actually a pretty good ball handler. We also don't know how good he can be with a 3-point shot but he'll be much better than Simmons. I was also surprised how many games he played with ligament damage to his thumb. That said, he's no point guard but CAN pass the ball. In fact, he's a better passer than Tatum (that's not saying all that much).

[Erik]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

No one is a worse shooter than Simmons, especially for the position he plays. Don't go and say "Robert Williams III" or someone like that. They don't play the same position.
Edit: Langford is actually a pretty good ball handler. We also don't know how good he can be with a 3-point shot but he'll be much better than Simmons. I was also surprised how many games he played with ligament damage to his thumb. That said, he's no point guard but CAN pass the ball. In fact, he's a better passer than Tatum (that's not saying all that much).

Hey man, if someone is shooting 27.2% at the college 3 with college defense, that's atrocious. Bottom of the barrel. I couldn't actually find a ranking that would go that low, but the worst shooting D1 college team was Rhode Island at 353th place with 28%.

Whether or not it was due to his thumb will be seen soon, but if you're going based on stats, you cannot exclude the possibility that he's a worse 3 point shooter than Ben Simmons because we don't know what % he would be shooting if he actually shot. I suspect that if you made Simmons shoot, it would be very similar.

[hwangjini_1]

hmmm...after reading all the posts about langford's bad 3 point shooting, yes, his 27% sucks. but, to be fair we also need to consider his torn ligament in the thumb of his shooting hand. clearly this did nothing to improve his shooting.

does this mean he will become a good shooter when it heals? who knows? but let's wait and see before proclaiming his shooting broken.

next, as i watched videos of langford he reminded me of evan turner, but not as good close to the basket, but, a better mid range shooter.

CBS may be able to put langford in a position to success, ala turner.

too early to tell folks. let's wait and see.

[RodyTur10]

Welcome to the guy who won't be able to get on the floor because he plays the same position as 8 other guys we have.

Another TP. This is so true. Even if Langford is a good pick he won't get enough minutes to develop.
Unless we play him as a PG and I can't see that working.

You can't play: PG - Langford - Brown - Tatum - C , since that line-up is too small.

Trade Brown/Tatum soon or it's probably a wasted pick.

[CelticsElite]

Why do I have a feeling that Romeo Langford is an insurance pick in case Jaylen Brown gets traded...

Brown is due to get paid next season, and he could command some big money.

you can never have to many backups

[GreenShooter]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

No one is a worse shooter than Simmons, especially for the position he plays. Don't go and say "Robert Williams III" or someone like that. They don't play the same position.
Edit: Langford is actually a pretty good ball handler. We also don't know how good he can be with a 3-point shot but he'll be much better than Simmons. I was also surprised how many games he played with ligament damage to his thumb. That said, he's no point guard but CAN pass the ball. In fact, he's a better passer than Tatum (that's not saying all that much).

Hey man, if someone is shooting 27.2% at the college 3 with college defense, that's atrocious. Bottom of the barrel. I couldn't actually find a ranking that would go that low, but the worst shooting D1 college team was Rhode Island at 353th place with 28%.

Whether or not it was due to his thumb will be seen soon, but if you're going based on stats, you cannot exclude the possibility that he's a worse 3 point shooter than Ben Simmons because we don't know what % he would be shooting if he actually shot. I suspect that if you made Simmons shoot, it would be very similar.

Yes, 1 for 3 in his college career. At least Langford can reach the rim. Mentioning Simmons was just a bad idea.

[Monkhouse]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

Dude did you just say Langford has a worse shot than Simmons..

Like come on bro... Really?

[alt]

In the PnR, even if your opponent goes under the screen and you do not get separation, you still have options.

(1) use the pick again. Tony Parker was a master of this. Teams didn't respect his jumper. Instead of taking what was low to medium efficiency shot for him. TP used the pick multiple times getting closer to the basket each time trying to set up his drive or to get a closer shot (18 footer instead of 23 footer) that he could make more of.

(2) Fake the pick, drive the other way. Harden is brilliant at this. You never know which way he is going off of a pick. Harden can shoot the 3 too which causes even more problems for his defender.


(3) Or if the team just switches the pick instead. Langford has had a lot of success in isolations. So him forcing a switch and getting a slower big man on him is a valuable action for Celtics too.


It is not like team's are going to be loading up on Langford either. He will be the 3rd, 4th, 5th option on offense when he is on the floor at the start of his NBA career. A lot of his PnRs will come out of situations where other offensive actions have already happened that opposing teams will be responding to.

1) That is called a screen, not a pick and roll. And you’re referring to one of the greatest at it. If you think that the offense will be screens for Langford, you’re mistaken.

I had to read this a few times.

A pick'n'roll is a screen-ball play. Pick = Screen. A pick'n'roll aka on-ball screen aka screen and roll is a screen attacked by the ball-handler with the screener rolling toward the basket.

So "this is a screen, not a pick'n'roll" is nonsensical. If you don't think the offense will set screens for Longford, then he won't be able to run pick'n'rolls, because there's no such thing without a pick/screen.

That said, I tend to agree Longford lack of shooting off the dribble will greatly hinder his pick'n'roll game. At least if he's running the play enough to make a difference and defenses tight up.

If one looks at the most efficient pick'n'roll ball-handlers in the league last season, only Giannis is a bad shooter - but he's supernatural on everything else. Looking at the top-30 with more than 50 PnR possessions, it'd seem only Trey Burke, Jimmy Butler (w/ Philly) and Ryan Arcidiacono weren't at least 37.5% 3pt shooters.

I see the potential with Langford because he's good size and good ball-handling, makes those changes of pace, finishes well, makes good decisions.

But there are too many weak-points:

1) very mediocre shooter

2) no burst - harder for him to just turn the corner going down

3) not a particularly creative or prolific passer on the move - which is a big reason why some guys who aren't great shooters, like Butler, can be efficient pick'n'roll ball-handlers

4) the Celtics don't really have any great screener in the roster. Grant Williams is a good screener, but he's a rookie. Good screeners can really lift a ball-handler production on the screenball game.

Especially for ballhandlers that lack burst and shooting and need stuff screen and rescreening plays, a quality screener really matters.


He did shoot 20% during pre-conference and 32% during conference games, plus had some sort of injury, plus he was an okay FT% at 73%, so that's a glimmer of hope - his shooting might be underrated and he might develop into a good shooter.

[Erik]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

No one is a worse shooter than Simmons, especially for the position he plays. Don't go and say "Robert Williams III" or someone like that. They don't play the same position.
Edit: Langford is actually a pretty good ball handler. We also don't know how good he can be with a 3-point shot but he'll be much better than Simmons. I was also surprised how many games he played with ligament damage to his thumb. That said, he's no point guard but CAN pass the ball. In fact, he's a better passer than Tatum (that's not saying all that much).

Hey man, if someone is shooting 27.2% at the college 3 with college defense, that's atrocious. Bottom of the barrel. I couldn't actually find a ranking that would go that low, but the worst shooting D1 college team was Rhode Island at 353th place with 28%.

Whether or not it was due to his thumb will be seen soon, but if you're going based on stats, you cannot exclude the possibility that he's a worse 3 point shooter than Ben Simmons because we don't know what % he would be shooting if he actually shot. I suspect that if you made Simmons shoot, it would be very similar.

Yes, 1 for 3 in his college career. At least Langford can reach the rim. Mentioning Simmons was just a bad idea.

He was 1 for 4. A sample size of 125 shots is not small. We're not exactly talking about 3pt % of someone who shot two 3s all season. He shot the ball. Also, what does his rim reaching ability have to do with this?

And *I* didn't bring Simmons into the discussion. "Who" mentioned that at least he isn't Simmons level bad at shooting. I responded that it isn't clear to me that this is true.

Please re-read everything carefully.

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

Dude did you just say Langford has a worse shot than Simmons..

Like come on bro... Really?

No, I said that Langford COULD be a worse 3 point shooter than Simmons based on someone saying that he's not Simmons level bad. Please re-read everything carefully. It's incomparable right now because Simmons does not have a 3pt %. It's somewhere between 0% and 33%. We know that Langford is 27% at an easy NCAA 3 vs NCAA defenders. This could translate into the low 20s in the NBA.

[CelticsElite]

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

No one is a worse shooter than Simmons, especially for the position he plays. Don't go and say "Robert Williams III" or someone like that. They don't play the same position.
Edit: Langford is actually a pretty good ball handler. We also don't know how good he can be with a 3-point shot but he'll be much better than Simmons. I was also surprised how many games he played with ligament damage to his thumb. That said, he's no point guard but CAN pass the ball. In fact, he's a better passer than Tatum (that's not saying all that much).

Hey man, if someone is shooting 27.2% at the college 3 with college defense, that's atrocious. Bottom of the barrel. I couldn't actually find a ranking that would go that low, but the worst shooting D1 college team was Rhode Island at 353th place with 28%.

Whether or not it was due to his thumb will be seen soon, but if you're going based on stats, you cannot exclude the possibility that he's a worse 3 point shooter than Ben Simmons because we don't know what % he would be shooting if he actually shot. I suspect that if you made Simmons shoot, it would be very similar.

Yes, 1 for 3 in his college career. At least Langford can reach the rim. Mentioning Simmons was just a bad idea.

He was 1 for 4. A sample size of 125 shots is not small. We're not exactly talking about 3pt % of someone who shot two 3s all season. He shot the ball. Also, what does his rim reaching ability have to do with this?

And *I* didn't bring Simmons into the discussion. "Who" mentioned that at least he isn't Simmons level bad at shooting. I responded that it isn't clear to me that this is true.

Please re-read everything carefully.

You cannot be the ball handler in a pick and roll in the nba if you cannot shoot 3s. The defense will just go under the pick and the play is dead.

Please stop posting misinformation. Visualize the pick and roll. If the picked player can just wait for you on the other side, you’ve accomplished nothing.

I guess that settles that. Confirmed: Langford a bust after playing zero minutes for the Cs.

No, just confirmed that he will not be our point guard running a pick and roll offense.

Why would Langford be a PG?

Langford is a SG. A score first player who doesn't pass much.

He already runs the PnR better than Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. That is something Boston needs. More secondary ball-handling and PnR action from the wings. That is part of the reason why teams had success trapping Kyrie and forcing the ball out of his hands.

I just explained to you why he cannot run a pick and roll. His 3pt shooting at the college level was so bad that he may be worse than Ben Simmons at the nba level. We don’t actually know what Simmons’ percentage is, but my guess is 20-25%. He will be running no pick and rolls. They will camp that pick and roll all day.

Dude did you just say Langford has a worse shot than Simmons..

Like come on bro... Really?

No, I said that Langford COULD be a worse 3 point shooter than Simmons based on someone saying that he's not Simmons level bad. Please re-read everything carefully. It's incomparable right now because Simmons does not have a 3pt %. It's somewhere between 0% and 33%. We know that Langford is 27% at an easy NCAA 3 vs NCAA defenders. This could translate into the low 20s in the NBA.

1 for 4 still better than rozier in a game 7