If we have AD but Kyrie walks, can we be the next Raptors?

[Sophomore]

No

Because AD is not as good as Leonard

Leonard leadership skills is through the roof

Not sure that "Leonard's leadership skills" is really the factor, but I agree with your sentiment. He's simply a low-maintenance superstar. He can be coached, and is willing to fit into the system instituted by a first year coach. His ability to play within a system, allowed young talent like Siakam to flourish... unlike our situation 

AD may not be as "enlightened" as Kyrie, but he's definitely not as low-maintenance as Kawhi. What people don't appreciate enough is that the risk Masai took with trading Demar for Kawhi, I can't see that trade being made for any other superstar, one year from free agency. His personality is just superb for someone at that level. Great teammate and cornerstone to build a franchise around.

I have a lot of respect for Kawhi is doing - imposing his will is the right way to say it.

I’m not sure I’d say he plays within a system, though, if by that you mean that they play a motion or passing offense that doesn’t elevate him as a decision maker. A lot of the time they seem to give him the ball and let him decide what to do. There’s a lot of isolation.

His usage rate in the playoffs this year is 32.3. For comparison, LeBron’s career playoff usage is 32.2 - almost identical. He’s within a point of Giannis. Over long stretches the system is just let Kawhi operate. The difference between Kawhi and Kyrie is mostly that’s kawhi is a lot harder to neutralize - due to skill, size, strength, and psychological makeup.

[Rosco917]

It's too chancy, I see what the Lakers offered, and I wonder how we get him without losing one of Smart or Brown, besides Tatum. I'm fine with just Tatum going but not one of the others too. I'll pass.

I'm not trusting Davis to remain after the single year, too many NBA players see themselves now as hired guns.

Keep Brown, Tatum, and Smart...hope that one of Tatum or Brown takes the next step. Draft a good young PG groom him and take a shot at a Connelly or Rubio type. Find a true Center, and make Baynes HIS backup. You can still play small with Horford at Center at times. But much of the time play him at PF. 

   

[Stig]

I don’t remember how Kwahi was praised for leadership before he was traded to raptors. His spurs days were surrounded by veteran leaders like GDP. Also don’t forget the drama he had with the spurs and the hip injury. So I don’t blame DA for not trading for him last year.

There is a small gap between AD and Kwahi. With the right coach and teammates AD can take a another leap.

[Stig]

On what planet do we get AD without giving up either Brown or Smart?

My first thought, too. If you insert the new hot name - Rubio - in Smart's place, then you can see how it might work out. You have to be really high on Brown and optimistic about Hayward's return, though.

Hoping we just re-sign Kyrie and then we don't have to worry about being good enough. We will just be.

Ok I realise smart has to go, but we should be able to replace him with Rubio or Beverly. Brown has demonstrated his abilities to adjust to the system, Hayward is a big question mark, I’m optimistic.

I’m not however optimistic about the star potential of Tatum and Brown.

Also consider this: trading for AD will prevent Knick’s, Lakers or Nets from getting him and form the next super team.

[Fierce1]

I don’t remember how Kwahi was praised for leadership before he was traded to raptors. His spurs days were surrounded by veteran leaders like GDP. Also don’t forget the drama he had with the spurs and the hip injury. So I don’t blame DA for not trading for him last year.

There is a small gap between AD and Kwahi. With the right coach and teammates AD can take a another leap.

I think Ainge would've pulled the trigger on a Kawhi trade if Kawhi wanted to come to Boston.

Apparently Kawhi didn't want to come to Boston.

[Fierce1]

I think Kyrie will return to Boston if AD gets traded to Boston.

It just doesn't make sense for Kyrie to be in NY or Brooklyn because even if the Nets get KD to pair with Kyrie, KD and Kyrie and a bunch of role players will not be good enough to take down the Bucks or Raptors, assuming Kawhi remains a Raptor.

[ozgod]

No

Because AD is not as good as Leonard

Leonard leadership skills is through the roof

Not sure that "Leonard's leadership skills" is really the factor, but I agree with your sentiment. He's simply a low-maintenance superstar. He can be coached, and is willing to fit into the system instituted by a first year coach. His ability to play within a system, allowed young talent like Siakam to flourish... unlike our situation 

AD may not be as "enlightened" as Kyrie, but he's definitely not as low-maintenance as Kawhi. What people don't appreciate enough is that the risk Masai took with trading Demar for Kawhi, I can't see that trade being made for any other superstar, one year from free agency. His personality is just superb for someone at that level. Great teammate and cornerstone to build a franchise around.

I have a lot of respect for Kawhi is doing - imposing his will is the right way to say it.

I’m not sure I’d say he plays within a system, though, if by that you mean that they play a motion or passing offense that doesn’t elevate him as a decision maker. A lot of the time they seem to give him the ball and let him decide what to do. There’s a lot of isolation.

His usage rate in the playoffs this year is 32.3. For comparison, LeBron’s career playoff usage is 32.2 - almost identical. He’s within a point of Giannis. Over long stretches the system is just let Kawhi operate. The difference between Kawhi and Kyrie is mostly that’s kawhi is a lot harder to neutralize - due to skill, size, strength, and psychological makeup.

Totally agree with this and I posted it on another thread. Their system is basically "let Kawhi be Kawhi" (or you could say "let Kawhi be Michael Jordan"). I see a lot of similarities between him and Kyrie in that sense. It's certainly not a criticism of Kawhi. They're both ball dominant, they hold the ball for stretches, they find mismatches and go to work. The difference is that Kawhi gets it done more often than not and end of day results are what matter and he has delivered those.

Where he played within a system was in SA, he subordinated himself to Pop's system and did so pretty well as well. But in Toronto he's been unleashed to play more the way he wants to play.

[LarBrd33]

we can be the next pelicans

[gouki88]

we can be the next pelicans

You continuing to say that we have no talent doesn't actually make it true you realise.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

we can be the next pelicans

This is easily untrue. Brown, Hayward(he willl be better), Horford, Rozier well be the 2nd best lineup he’s ever had.  Depending on the development of every player I’ve listed other than Horford, it could be the best lineup he’s ever had.

Even though Hayward had a freak accident none of those players have a bad injury history either. Davis has been stuck with just Jrue for a long time. We are undoubtedly better than the Pelicans.

[JBcat]

we can be the next pelicans

You continuing to say that we have no talent doesn't actually make it true you realise.

Not saying the Pelicans talent is close to ours minus Tatum and Smart in a Davis deal, but does anyone have an opinion on Julious Randle?  Randle put up monster traditional stats last year 21 PPG, 9 boards, and 3 assists.  Eye opening stats.  I’ve always kind of liked his talent.

[Phantom255x]

we can be the next pelicans

Lol

[RazzelnoDazzel]

But after sleeping on it, if you can get AD, you get AD. Tatum+Smart+Yabu+14th for AD? TAKE IT! If this trade happens we will have the best player in the East.

This is an accolade Kyrie just will never have. He’s EXTREMELY skilled, but so is Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, John Wall (before accident) are all extremely skilled players that will never be MVP. Before Lebron went to the Cavs no one was sweating Kyrie. We wasn’t going against the Cavs and was saying “oh shoot we got to go against Kyrie again.” He was just a good player, but wasn’t  making any playoffs, winning any games, and wasn’t making any all-nba teams.

My personal opinion is that Kyrie will not win another championship if he leaves the Celtics. Kyrie is like Lebron in which he can’t win unless he has many great players. They both don’t know how to turn their young talented teammates into great NBA players. If you’re not already a great NBA player your team won’t be successful with them. Now Kyrie is linked to the Nets and the Knicks... either move is not what he needs, Kyrie needs the Rockets or the Thunder. Those teams both have some great and EXPERIENCED NBA players already.

Now if Kyrie stays in Boston and the Celtics Trade for AD and Hayward becomes better, this is another place Kyrie would be best suited for. I really understand what Kyrie went through. I know what he was frustrated about, like I get it. His IQ was way higher than the team he was playing with. I’ve been in the position before so I understand it. Kyrie just needs to learn how to TALK to his teams mates. How to properly get them up to speed on how things should be. This is not something that he was born with. Sometimes leadership can be taught as long as you have the right teachers. Lebron is easily not the type of teacher you want to learn from because he isn’t VOCAL.

[gouki88]

we can be the next pelicans

You continuing to say that we have no talent doesn't actually make it true you realise.

Not saying the Pelicans talent is close to ours minus Tatum and Smart in a Davis deal, but does anyone have an opinion on Julious Randle?  Randle put up monster traditional stats last year 21 PPG, 9 boards, and 3 assists.  Eye opening stats.  I’ve always kind of liked his talent.

I think Randle is going to end up with a career like Al Jefferson - really good numbers, but his defensive shortcomings hold him back from being a truly elite big man. Sort of a slightly worse David Lee I guess.

In terms of talent he's probably higher than a few guys on our team, but in terms of impact I think he's less valuable.

[CF033]

But after sleeping on it, if you can get AD, you get AD. Tatum+Smart+Yabu+14th for AD? TAKE IT! If this trade happens we will have the best player in the East.

This is an accolade Kyrie just will never have. He’s EXTREMELY skilled, but so is Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, John Wall (before accident) are all extremely skilled players that will never be MVP. Before Lebron went to the Cavs no one was sweating Kyrie. We wasn’t going against the Cavs and was saying “oh shoot we got to go against Kyrie again.” He was just a good player, but wasn’t  making any playoffs, winning any games, and wasn’t making any all-nba teams.

My personal opinion is that Kyrie will not win another championship if he leaves the Celtics. Kyrie is like Lebron in which he can’t win unless he has many great players. They both don’t know how to turn their young talented teammates into great NBA players. If you’re not already a great NBA player your team won’t be successful with them. Now Kyrie is linked to the Nets and the Knicks... either move is not what he needs, Kyrie needs the Rockets or the Thunder. Those teams both have some great and EXPERIENCED NBA players already.

Now if Kyrie stays in Boston and the Celtics Trade for AD and Hayward becomes better, this is another place Kyrie would be best suited for. I really understand what Kyrie went through. I know what he was frustrated about, like I get it. His IQ was way higher than the team he was playing with. I’ve been in the position before so I understand it. Kyrie just needs to learn how to TALK to his teams mates. How to properly get them up to speed on how things should be. This is not something that he was born with. Sometimes leadership can be taught as long as you have the right teachers. Lebron is easily not the type of teacher you want to learn from because he isn’t VOCAL.

The best player in the East is dependent on Kawhi leaving the Raptors for the West. Also, I could easily see Giannis surpassing AD (if he hasn't already).