Author Topic: BOSTON GLOBE: Brad Stevens needs to make some changes in his approach  (Read 2441 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5867
  • Tommy Points: 633
Also from the article:

Quote
there is a position open and Stevens needs to stray from hiring someone from the Butler tree and bring in a veteran NBA coach and former player.
Quote
Another coach who is available is former Celtic James Posey, who won two NBA titles (with the Celtics and Heat) and another as an assistant coach with the Cavaliers. Posey, 42, is considered a player-friendly coach but who has a no-nonsense style.

Bringing in Posey would be great. Loved him as a player and he has ties to both Boston and Kyrie.

I still stand with Stevens. He's a good coach who had a bad year. But how he learns from this season will determine his future. I think before this season he's only had young guys and guys looking to prove something. This season, he didn't know how to deal with a group of veterans. I think he'll adjust and know better next season.

If not, the C's can start looking elsewhere.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Offline gpap

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6925
  • Tommy Points: 329
Also from the article:

Quote
there is a position open and Stevens needs to stray from hiring someone from the Butler tree and bring in a veteran NBA coach and former player.
Quote
Another coach who is available is former Celtic James Posey, who won two NBA titles (with the Celtics and Heat) and another as an assistant coach with the Cavaliers. Posey, 42, is considered a player-friendly coach but who has a no-nonsense style.

Bringing in Posey would be great. Loved him as a player and he has ties to both Boston and Kyrie.

I still stand with Stevens. He's a good coach who had a bad year. But how he learns from this season will determine his future. I think before this season he's only had young guys and guys looking to prove something. This season, he didn't know how to deal with a group of veterans. I think he'll adjust and know better next season.

If not, the C's can start looking elsewhere.

Agree 100% on Posey. He'd be a great assistant.

Offline hardlyyardley

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 997
  • Tommy Points: 143
Belleon is leaving Michigan for Cavaliers coaching job....my prediction is Stevens will leave for Michigan

Online RJ87

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8183
  • Tommy Points: 522
  • Let's Go Celtics!
Belleon is leaving Michigan for Cavaliers coaching job....my prediction is Stevens will leave for Michigan

My prediction is Stevens will coach the Boston Celtics next season. I don't think he gets fired, I don't think he quits. I expect him to be here.
Indiana Pacers
PG: D.Russell, P.Mills, A.Holiday, E.Simner
SG: V.Oladipo, C.Joseph, S.Hicks, D. Reed
SF: D. McDermott, A.Crabbe
PF: T. Young, T. Leaf, K. O'Quinn
C: M. Turner, D. Sabonis
PICKS: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Indiana-Pacers/11/Rosters/Regular

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30924
  • Tommy Points: 291
Also from the article:

Quote
there is a position open and Stevens needs to stray from hiring someone from the Butler tree and bring in a veteran NBA coach and former player.
Quote
Another coach who is available is former Celtic James Posey, who won two NBA titles (with the Celtics and Heat) and another as an assistant coach with the Cavaliers. Posey, 42, is considered a player-friendly coach but who has a no-nonsense style.

Bringing in Posey would be great. Loved him as a player and he has ties to both Boston and Kyrie.

I still stand with Stevens. He's a good coach who had a bad year. But how he learns from this season will determine his future. I think before this season he's only had young guys and guys looking to prove something. This season, he didn't know how to deal with a group of veterans. I think he'll adjust and know better next season.

If not, the C's can start looking elsewhere.

Agree 100% on Posey. He'd be a great assistant.

Yep, same here - virtually any former player.

You do have to wonder how much of this was exacerbated by not having a former player on the coaching staff anymore. I’d like to think that Walter being here this past season would’ve helped better manage these guys’ egos and the overall chemistry.

Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Offline gift

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1840
  • Tommy Points: 172
I think most Cs fans (including myself) agree that putting Hayward in the starting lineup right way was a big mistake.

I agree with this and had a number of posts saying coming off the bench and easing in seemed like the best thing (often to a chorus of "they aren't going to pay him $30M to come off the bench" replies).  But that said, even if this was a mistake, how much of the problem did this really cause?  If he had started out on the bench, what is the difference?

I am still good with Stevens.  I suggest we don't give up on him just yet.

I really don't see the harm that starting Hayward caused. It's not like he took over the offense and jacked up shots. Even early on, it seemed the problem was that he deferred and played off-ball to Irving, Tatum and Brown. What were their complaints? That they missed shots and defensive assignments because Hayward was on the court? That Hayward was too passive? And when Stevens benched Hayward it didn't solve those problems. Brown was still in a slump off the bench, Tatum still iso'd, Irving was Irving. I just think starting Hayward is a high profile excuse.

From Jackie Mac's piece earlier this season:
Quote
Still, because the Celtics considered Hayward a key cog in their championship aspirations, they determined that the best way to help him rehab was to let him work out the kinks on the court. It was a strategy that backfired miserably. As Hayward faltered early in the season, his play became stilted, hesitant. His teammates observed this, some from the bench, and chafed at their own lack of opportunity.

"I never felt like guys were frustrated with me," Hayward said, "but you could feel that guys were frustrated with their situation. Everyone in the NBA wants a bigger role. It was tough on everybody. We were trying to win basketball games, but at the same time, I was trying to get back to being the player I was, and some of that involved getting reps."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26131924/the-waiting-gordon-hayward-hardest-part

These issues didn't just recently appear and I don't believe anyone is retconning what happened to redirect blame. This has been an issue.

I'm aware of both of those quotes. I read Jackie's piece at the time. Problem is, it doesn't really answer my questions. In what way did Hayward starting affect those other players? He initially stayed out of Irving, Tatum, Brown's way (people thought he was being too deferential at the time) and he did not take Rozier's, Morris' opportunities and Smart doesn't seem like he was bothered. So who was bothered and how did that affect the team's performance?

I again say that it's an excuse and not a cause. Whether the players are using that excuse or not does not determine whether it is just an easy excuse.

Online RJ87

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8183
  • Tommy Points: 522
  • Let's Go Celtics!
I think most Cs fans (including myself) agree that putting Hayward in the starting lineup right way was a big mistake.

I agree with this and had a number of posts saying coming off the bench and easing in seemed like the best thing (often to a chorus of "they aren't going to pay him $30M to come off the bench" replies).  But that said, even if this was a mistake, how much of the problem did this really cause?  If he had started out on the bench, what is the difference?

I am still good with Stevens.  I suggest we don't give up on him just yet.

I really don't see the harm that starting Hayward caused. It's not like he took over the offense and jacked up shots. Even early on, it seemed the problem was that he deferred and played off-ball to Irving, Tatum and Brown. What were their complaints? That they missed shots and defensive assignments because Hayward was on the court? That Hayward was too passive? And when Stevens benched Hayward it didn't solve those problems. Brown was still in a slump off the bench, Tatum still iso'd, Irving was Irving. I just think starting Hayward is a high profile excuse.

From Jackie Mac's piece earlier this season:
Quote
Still, because the Celtics considered Hayward a key cog in their championship aspirations, they determined that the best way to help him rehab was to let him work out the kinks on the court. It was a strategy that backfired miserably. As Hayward faltered early in the season, his play became stilted, hesitant. His teammates observed this, some from the bench, and chafed at their own lack of opportunity.

"I never felt like guys were frustrated with me," Hayward said, "but you could feel that guys were frustrated with their situation. Everyone in the NBA wants a bigger role. It was tough on everybody. We were trying to win basketball games, but at the same time, I was trying to get back to being the player I was, and some of that involved getting reps."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26131924/the-waiting-gordon-hayward-hardest-part

These issues didn't just recently appear and I don't believe anyone is retconning what happened to redirect blame. This has been an issue.

I'm aware of both of those quotes. I read Jackie's piece at the time. Problem is, it doesn't really answer my questions. In what way did Hayward starting affect those other players? He initially stayed out of Irving, Tatum, Brown's way (people thought he was being too deferential at the time) and he did not take Rozier's, Morris' opportunities and Smart doesn't seem like he was bothered. So who was bothered and how did that affect the team's performance?

I again say that it's an excuse and not a cause. Whether the players are using that excuse or not does not determine whether it is just an easy excuse.

You're asking questions that only those players themselves can answer. Unfortunately, I don't have that type of player access and I don't expect any of those guys to go on record and explain themselves.

My best guess is that Rozier saw a slight reduction in his regular season minutes (and a significant drop from his postseason minutes), and he wasn't happy. That would go with his comments that he felt he sacrificed the most of anyone this season. He's a guy in a contract year and his personal "Scarry Terry" brand took a bit of a hit. Jaylen went from 31 mins per game to 26 minutes despite being our leading scorer in the playoffs a season ago.

And it may have not been starting exactly, but the allotment of minutes he was given. During the first 20 games of the season, he averaged 27 minutes a game. Despite his subpar play, he averaged more minutes per game in the month of December than Terry or Jaylen and never averaged less than 23.8 minutes in a given month. Basically, no matter how badly he played he was always guaranteed minutes at the expense of guys who felt they were better - whether that's justified or not is another conversation.
Indiana Pacers
PG: D.Russell, P.Mills, A.Holiday, E.Simner
SG: V.Oladipo, C.Joseph, S.Hicks, D. Reed
SF: D. McDermott, A.Crabbe
PF: T. Young, T. Leaf, K. O'Quinn
C: M. Turner, D. Sabonis
PICKS: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Indiana-Pacers/11/Rosters/Regular

Offline johnnygreen

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 807
  • Tommy Points: 76
In Danny I trust. Having said that, I do believe the failure this past season rest on Danny. During the past offseason and at the trade deadline, everyone but the Celtics made improvements.

Milwaukee – George Hill, Lopez, Illyasova, Mirotic, Pau Gasol.

Toronto – Kawhi, Danny Green, Marc Gasol, (and Siakam made a major leap).

Philly – Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, Mike Scott

The Celtics biggest change was the addition of getting back a player in Gordon Hayward, who needed the season to basically continue his rehab. I do not blame anyone for this, as it felt necessary if the team had any shot of improving in the playoffs.

I hate to harp on this again, but the reluctance to make any trades did impact this season. Danny was holding onto all of his assets to make one last push for Anthony Davis, but he couldn’t make an offer until this season is over because of the Rose rule. After all the dust settles this offseason, I want to see more defined roles. Assuming Kyrie re-signs, I would like to see Stevens treat Kyrie like the teams star player. Maybe if the coach treats him like a star player, the refs will give Kyrie those star calls.

Online cltc5

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5305
  • Tommy Points: 308
[dang] shame someone couldn’t step up and be a leader this year from the front office on down...and here’s what you get...chaos!  Don’t know where the hell this society got the notion sitting back and letting stuff work itself out is a solution when there’s impending problems in your face.  Wreaks of laziness!

Offline LilRip

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3946
  • Tommy Points: 127
For all this blame placed on kyries crass leadership skills, CBS needs to be put more on blast for his apparent total lack of leadership skills.

Players came into the season with their own agenda of either proving last postseason wasn’t a fluke or proving themselves valuable. So while everyone wanted to win, they wanted to do it their way, making the “sacrifices” they wanted to make (as opposed to making sacrifices the team needed). That’s on the coaching staff to make sure everyone was on the same page.
- LilRip

Online Androslav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2519
  • Tommy Points: 468
Brads job was definitely tough this year, it was his 1st season that he didn't graduate with A+.

Did Pop get any bad rep after mishandling Kawhi situation? No, Pop defended his franchise and his medical staff that almost ruined his career with consecutive misdiagnosis. And Kawhi is better player than anyone Brad (maybe even Doc) ever had?
He was supposed to lead them for 10 more years, but they mishandled it.
That's a huge blunder. Now they are without any elite talent and it shows.
How about mishandling LMA for 2 years? He admitted the failure himself.
How about not being able to give instructions to your team (intentional foul) on the brink of playoff exit this year?
He gave up on that play.
What about his defensive rebounding in 2013, when he sat Duncan, and it cost them a title?

What I'm trying to say is that all coaches, even the very best, have their challenges.
Brad just had more this year than just about anyone in the league.
He did't ace them, but that doesn't make him a bad coach.
He owned his share of the failure, he is aware of the situation.

People like to point fingers in one or two directions. I guess to simplify, even though it was clearly a collective disappointment.
He will learn and so will our much more proven management.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Offline Kuberski33

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Tommy Points: 238
Bill Belichick didn't have a great season in 2015 - that was the year his O Line stunk and he blew home field advantage in the last game at Miami because he decided to run the ball the entire game against a team that had nothing to play for.  Denver beat them at Denver in the conference championship.  Since then he's been to 3 straight Super Bowls and won 2.

Brad can bounce back too.

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21104
  • Tommy Points: 2004
The more you look into this season and the things that went "wrong", the more it's clear Kyrie Irving isn't at fault for any of it.

Mediocre roster that overachieved in 2018.   The fool's gold "success" got to the head of the young guys.  Players were sulking from Day 1, because they weren't "the man" anymore.

At the end of the day, they didn't have nearly enough talent to compete with a team like the Bucks.  Anyone who says otherwise is still leaning on the false narrative that we had multiple all-stars on this team.   

We had 1.  Kyrie Irving.  That's it.  49 wins and a 1st round exit makes perfect sense.

Online Phantom255x

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12260
  • Tommy Points: 1074
  • On To Banner 18!
The more you look into this season and the things that went "wrong", the more it's clear Kyrie Irving isn't at fault for any of it.

Mediocre roster that overachieved in 2018.   The fool's gold "success" got to the head of the young guys.  Players were sulking from Day 1, because they weren't "the man" anymore.

At the end of the day, they didn't have nearly enough talent to compete with a team like the Bucks.  Anyone who says otherwise is still leaning on the false narrative that we had multiple all-stars on this team.   

Kyrie Irving himself looked nothing like an all-star in that series.
We had 1.  Kyrie Irving.  That's it.

Did you even watch the Bucks series.

I hope Kyrie stays, but lets not act like Kyrie didn't shoot horribly from Game 2 onwards. Your points would be valid if Kyrie was putting up like an efficient 30+ PPG and 6-7+ assists a game, but he wasn't. He had some real ugly games in that Bucks series.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Online PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18585
  • Tommy Points: 1811
The more you look into this season and the things that went "wrong", the more it's clear Kyrie Irving isn't at fault for any of it.

Mediocre roster that overachieved in 2018.   The fool's gold "success" got to the head of the young guys.  Players were sulking from Day 1, because they weren't "the man" anymore.

At the end of the day, they didn't have nearly enough talent to compete with a team like the Bucks.  Anyone who says otherwise is still leaning on the false narrative that we had multiple all-stars on this team.   

We had 1.  Kyrie Irving.  That's it.  49 wins and a 1st round exit makes perfect sense.


Sure, if you post your exact narrative enough times in enough threads it'll take hold and become truth.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required