If you would have told me Kyrie would be the starting pg for next season....

[Moranis]

^?Random examples:

1. He demanded a trade from a championship team to get more of the spotlight;

That is a leak from someone that controlled the narrative.  Would a guy that wants the spotlight put Minnesota and San Antonio on his preferred destination list?  Two places that might be considered worse places to live than Cleveland and with players that are better than Irving and will be for basically his whole career.  You are smart enough to know the person that leaks controls the narrative.  You are also smart enough to figure out that isn't what Irving wanted.  He wanted out of the dumpster fire that is Cleveland's management and away from James because he just didn't like playing on a team where James is allowed to do whatever he wants. 

2. He refused to talk with teammates for two days in the playoffs;

says one article without any named sources.  It might be true, it might not be true, but I haven't seen any confirmation from any of Irving's former teammates.  If you have please post a link, I'd like to see it.

3. He "led" his team to a 4-23 record without Lebron;

How many of those 27 games did Irving play?  How many of those 27 games in which Irving played, did Love also sit out?  You keep flaunting that stat, when you know it isn't accurate.  You do yourself and your argument a disservice when you keep stating incorrect and misleading information.

4. He and Dion Waiters clashed, to the point of a rumored fight. Kyrie allegedly froze Waiters out of the offense;

Possibly happened, but Waiters seems to be the one that was the problem as he bounced around the league a lot and was nearly out of it before maybe finally maturing in Miami.  Shaq and Kobe did similar things.  Pierce and Walker didn't get along at times.  Jordan and Pippen often clashed. 

5. He had "communication issues" with Davis Blatt;

No one liked Blatt on that team, that is why he is not only no longer the Cavs coach, he isn't a NBA coach either. 

6. He threatened not to re-sign in Cleveland unless they fired Mike Brown;

Mike Brown is a terrible coach.  He should have been fired.  He just shouldn't have been replaced by David Blatt.  And why not mention that Mike Brown asked the Cavs to trade Irving during their one season together.  Shouldn't that come into play or is it only the 21 year old that gets blamed for the poor relationship. 

7. He pouts on the court, which has been noted repeatedly in the media. He skipped Fan Appreciation Night;

you mean he left the court right after a tough loss in a game in which he injured his foot and wanted the medical staff to check it out.  Sure he should stayed the extra 5 minutes, but a tough loss and a possible injury for a 2nd year 20 year old, probably not a huge deal.

Just go back and read media from 2014, before Lebron got there. Kyrie was being savaged by media and other GMs for his immaturity. Byron Scott noted he "changed" (in a negative way) after he made his first All-Star game.

OMG a 21 year old millionaire has some maturity issues.  Stop the presses, this has never happened in the history of the world before.  He must be all over the Guiness Book of World Records.

[max215]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

Kyrie is a highlight superstar, man.

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. He's basically a better, younger version of IT.

That's...not what I meant.

The internet is a hard medium to convey sarcasm. We can't see your rolling eyes or any other indicators to suggest that your words are not a good representation of your message. In my book, the words highlight and superstar are good things, at least when referencing basketball.

So.... what did you mean?

Yeah, I realized it was a bit ambiguous, but I've been vocal about hating the trade and "highlight" and "superstar" aren't usually put together, so I thought that might give it away. No worries for not catching it; that's on me. Essentially, I mean that Kyrie sure as hell looks like a superstar when you watch his highlights. Those handles, those iso buckets. He's ridiculous. However, when you watch full games, you see the ill-advised shots, atrocious defense, lack of vision, and an inability/unwillingness to make the right play/pass. In the era of short clips on Twitter, Reddit, a basketball fanbase that demands quickly consumable content, Kyrie Irving is the perfect superstar. He's charismatic and flashy, and when you capture his highs, they're [dang] high. But basketball is so much more than what you can capture in 140 characters or 30 seconds.

[green_bballers13]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

Kyrie is a highlight superstar, man.

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. He's basically a better, younger version of IT.

That's...not what I meant.

The internet is a hard medium to convey sarcasm. We can't see your rolling eyes or any other indicators to suggest that your words are not a good representation of your message. In my book, the words highlight and superstar are good things, at least when referencing basketball.

So.... what did you mean?

Yeah, I realized it was a bit ambiguous, but I've been vocal about hating the trade and "highlight" and "superstar" aren't usually put together, so I thought that might give it away. No worries for not catching it; that's on me. Essentially, I mean that Kyrie sure as hell looks like a superstar when you watch his highlights. Those handles, those iso buckets. He's ridiculous. However, when you watch full games, you see the ill-advised shots, atrocious defense, lack of vision, and an inability/unwillingness to make the right play/pass. In the era of short clips on Twitter, Reddit, a basketball fanbase that demands quickly consumable content, Kyrie Irving is the perfect superstar. He's charismatic and flashy, and when you capture his highs, they're [dang] high. But basketball is so much more than what you can capture in 140 characters or 30 seconds.

I'm still not crystal clear after all of those words. Do you think he's worse than IT? Do you think he's a top 30 player? We can compare Irving to Curry or Westbrook all day, but I don't think that the Celtics had a legit chance to acquire one of them.

I'm not saying that he's the best PG in the game. I do think he's top 6, and slightly better/younger/healthier/taller than IT. That's all I'm saying, really. I think the Celtics improved.

And we have enough young guys at the moment to develop where we don't have to rely on the ping pong balls. Between Kyrie (#1), Al (#3), Jaylen (#3), Jayson (#3), Marcus (#6), and Gordon (#9), it seems to me that the Celtics have enough high draft picks on their squad. Now they need more veterans who have proven that they can win.

Knowing that Danny wasn't going to max out IT, can you name a better PG in the high school class of 2018 than Kyrie Irving?

[green_bballers13]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

Kyrie is a highlight superstar, man.

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. He's basically a better, younger version of IT.

That's...not what I meant.

The internet is a hard medium to convey sarcasm. We can't see your rolling eyes or any other indicators to suggest that your words are not a good representation of your message. In my book, the words highlight and superstar are good things, at least when referencing basketball.

So.... what did you mean?

If he'd said "YouTube superstar" would it have been clearer?

Actually, no. I'm not a professional on internet words. Does Kyrie have a youtube channel where he opines on the shape of the earth? If so, I'm not sure how relevant it is to his basketball.

Sorry for being dense, I just like when people use straight forward words and messages. I'm sure there are more intelligent posters who understand the workings of Youtube and who stars on it.

[j804]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

Kyrie is a highlight superstar, man.

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. He's basically a better, younger version of IT.

That's...not what I meant.

The internet is a hard medium to convey sarcasm. We can't see your rolling eyes or any other indicators to suggest that your words are not a good representation of your message. In my book, the words highlight and superstar are good things, at least when referencing basketball.

So.... what did you mean?

Yeah, I realized it was a bit ambiguous, but I've been vocal about hating the trade and "highlight" and "superstar" aren't usually put together, so I thought that might give it away. No worries for not catching it; that's on me. Essentially, I mean that Kyrie sure as hell looks like a superstar when you watch his highlights. Those handles, those iso buckets. He's ridiculous. However, when you watch full games, you see the ill-advised shots, atrocious defense, lack of vision, and an inability/unwillingness to make the right play/pass. In the era of short clips on Twitter, Reddit, a basketball fanbase that demands quickly consumable content, Kyrie Irving is the perfect superstar. He's charismatic and flashy, and when you capture his highs, they're [dang] high. But basketball is so much more than what you can capture in 140 characters or 30 seconds.

I'm still not crystal clear after all of those words. Do you think he's worse than IT? Do you think he's a top 30 player? We can compare Irving to Curry or Westbrook all day, but I don't think that the Celtics had a legit chance to acquire one of them.

I'm not saying that he's the best PG in the game. I do think he's top 6, and slightly better/younger/healthier/taller than IT. That's all I'm saying, really. I think the Celtics improved.

And we have enough young guys at the moment to develop where we don't have to rely on the ping pong balls. Knowing that Danny wasn't going to max out IT, can you name a better PG in the high school class of 2018 than Kyrie Irving?

Basically we werent going to max IT so who were we getting? I'd take Kyrie any and every day compared to what out there would be available

[max215]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

Kyrie is a highlight superstar, man.

Yeah, the more I look, the more I like. He's basically a better, younger version of IT.

That's...not what I meant.

The internet is a hard medium to convey sarcasm. We can't see your rolling eyes or any other indicators to suggest that your words are not a good representation of your message. In my book, the words highlight and superstar are good things, at least when referencing basketball.

So.... what did you mean?

Yeah, I realized it was a bit ambiguous, but I've been vocal about hating the trade and "highlight" and "superstar" aren't usually put together, so I thought that might give it away. No worries for not catching it; that's on me. Essentially, I mean that Kyrie sure as hell looks like a superstar when you watch his highlights. Those handles, those iso buckets. He's ridiculous. However, when you watch full games, you see the ill-advised shots, atrocious defense, lack of vision, and an inability/unwillingness to make the right play/pass. In the era of short clips on Twitter, Reddit, a basketball fanbase that demands quickly consumable content, Kyrie Irving is the perfect superstar. He's charismatic and flashy, and when you capture his highs, they're [dang] high. But basketball is so much more than what you can capture in 140 characters or 30 seconds.

I'm still not crystal clear after all of those words. Do you think he's worse than IT? Do you think he's a top 30 player? We can compare Irving to Curry or Westbrook all day, but I don't think that the Celtics had a legit chance to acquire one of them.

I'm not saying that he's the best PG in the game. I do think he's top 6, and slightly better/younger/healthier/taller than IT. That's all I'm saying, really. I think the Celtics improved.

And we have enough young guys at the moment to develop where we don't have to rely on the ping pong balls. Between Kyrie (#1), Al (#3), Jaylen (#3), Jayson (#3), Marcus (#6), and Gordon (#9), it seems to me that the Celtics have enough high draft picks on their squad. Now they need more veterans who have proven that they can win.

Knowing that Danny wasn't going to max out IT, can you name a better PG in the high school class of 2018 than Kyrie Irving?

Lot's of stuff to unpack here.

Do you think he's worse than IT?

Yes.

Do you think he's a top 30 player?

Oh, definitely. I'm not that low on him, but I think he's barely inside the top-20.

We can compare Irving to Curry or Westbrook all day, but I don't think that the Celtics had a legit chance to acquire one of them.

Fine, we don't have to compare him to guys who aren't available. But Kyrie was traded for SIGNIFICANTLY more than Jimmy Butler, Paul George, DeMarcus Cousins, and Chris Paul (extenuating circumstances), who are all better players than Kyrie Irving. If you want to argue that Kyrie is a more valuable asset than any of those guys, I'd be willing to listen, but you're not convincing me that his excess value exceeds the disparity between our package and the other star packages.

I think the Celtics improved.

Jae Crowder was our third best player last year.

Between Kyrie (#1), Al (#3), Jaylen (#3), Jayson (#3), Marcus (#6), and Gordon (#9), it seems to me that the Celtics have enough high draft picks on their squad. Now they need more veterans who have proven that they can win.

I see a lot of very good, useful players, but no superstars. You don't win without superstars.

Knowing that Danny wasn't going to max out IT, can you name a better PG in the high school class of 2018 than Kyrie Irving?

No, which brings me back to the Fultz trade. That trade was a disaster, which has become more clear in the wake of this disaster.

[Tr1boy]

Kyrie is a top 10 player

What makes Curry , Wall better?

How many rings has RW won? How many choke jobs/run into 3 players waiting for him at the playoffs?

[Chris22]

Some of you guys are going to be disappointed by Kyrie's "leadership" and defense, along with his ability and willingness to pass. I'm guessing that those praising him for such things haven't followed Kyrie's career closely.

I watched him destroy the Celtics in the playoffs this year.
Where were you?

[max215]

Kyrie is a top 10 player

What makes Curry , Wall better?

How many rings has RW won? How many choke jobs/run into 3 players waiting for him at the playoffs?

Wall is debatable. I'm going to assume you're talking about Seth Curry.

[Celtics4ever]

Jae Crowder was our third best player last year.

And Hayward is a big improvement of him

[max215]

Jae Crowder was our third best player last year.

And Hayward is a big improvement of him

Yes, Hayward is outstanding. Not sure how that's relevant to the Kyrie trade.

[mctyson]

^?Random examples:

1. He demanded a trade from a championship team to get more of the spotlight;

2. He refused to talk with teammates for two days in the playoffs;

3. He "led" his team to a 4-23 record without Lebron;

4. He and Dion Waiters clashed, to the point of a rumored fight. Kyrie allegedly froze Waiters out of the offense;

5. He had "communication issues" with Davis Blatt;

6. He threatened not to re-sign in Cleveland unless they fired Mike Brown;

7. He pouts on the court, which has been noted repeatedly in the media. He skipped Fan Appreciation Night;

Just go back and read media from 2014, before Lebron got there. Kyrie was being savaged by media and other GMs for his immaturity. Byron Scott noted he "changed" (in a negative way) after he made his first All-Star game.

Roy - I don't think anyone would argue with these points, but the question is: why would Ainge give up what he did for a player with all of this baggage that you note?

The answer is: because Ainge thinks he will be a different player in Boston.  Much like IT was.

[Neurotic Guy]

No, which brings me back to the Fultz trade. That trade was a disaster, which has become more clear in the wake of this disaster.

Amazingly definitive and extreme -- good for you for being unequivocal! 

But you repeatedly use the word "disaster" -- and I do not think it means what you think it means.