Rozier's defense is worse than advertised

[mr. dee]

Coming into draft, Rozier is touted by scouts as a defensive stopper and pressures the ball well. But so far, he's only doing a decent job. Nothing spectacular compared to AB and Smart. And tonight against the Nuggets, he was completely dominated by Mudiay.

He needs to be better since he have the tools because it's disappointing that he can't even slow down some average PGs out there (not talking about Mudiay, mind you) when he came out of college with great reputation as a defender.

[alldaboston]

i noticed he got beat a lot off cuts in preseason. i havent paid as much attention to him in the regular season though. but i do agree, he's not that good of a defender.

[Monkhouse]

Earlier I remember reading a thread, where it was Rozier vs Smart, and who would pan out as the lead starter or successor in a bench role. I've always said Smart, and I think celticsclay? Or maybe hwangjii were saying he was the guard version of Draymond Green, and I agree.

If Smart could ever at least hit league average from 3, learn how to pass better, he'd be an perchance Allstar, or at least in the running of All Defense First or Second team, with votes for even DPOY. He's that good defensively, and his intangibles and hustle definitely match up more favorably well when compared to his woeful offensive stats.

He finished his rookie season 1.5 SPG, and led all Celtics players. Eigth in the entire league, and ranked third among all rookies.

He allowed 0.643 PPO in pick and rolls, and team high nine charges.

You can argue defensive rating is overrated, and overused, especially when KO is ranked 100.00 as the best defender that year to Smart's 101.3.

His rookie season left us impressed, and the next year he did just as well if not better from the eye test.

His scoring? Still dreadful.

But he makes the winning plays that overcompensate his terrible offensive game. And I don't think its even his offense that's bad, but he seems to rush things especially when he's driving. Correct if I'm wrong? He makes the right plays 50 times out of 100, but turns it over, or possibly makes an unforced error.

I think Smart is an skilled and intelligent basketball player who has guts. Kevin Garnett would be proud to have played with him, and I think we really do underestimate how much of an impact Garnett, Piece, and Allen can have on young players. Garnett loves the kids fire, and that alone is already something that rises deep within me.

I guess I'm trying to say I'm not impressed with Rozier. I love his spunk, and his attitude. But most of times he has tunnel vision when passing, and his defense is lazy at times considering his wingspan, and his athleticism. He certainly needs to learn the fundamentals, and gets beat too easily by bad players, especially tonight.

So yes, I would certainly take Smart over Rozier. I just don't like Rozier's game. I'm not a huge fan of it. Maybe I am coming off biased, but I don't see Rozier having a future with the Celtics.
He looks like the odd man out, when you consider his growing trade value, and DJax already in the wing on a team friendly contract.

[GRADYCOLNON]

i noticed he got beat a lot off cuts in preseason. i havent paid as much attention to him in the regular season though. but i do agree, he's not that good of a defender.

imo it looks like he bites too hard at fakes.  Almost like his athleticism is too much and doesn't know what to do.  My thoughts are he needs to slow down and think it out more as he did on the offense

[jpotter33]

Earlier I remember reading a thread, where it was Rozier vs Smart, and who would pan out as the lead starter or successor in a bench role. I've always said Smart, and I think celticsclay? Or maybe hwangjii were saying he was the guard version of Draymond Green, and I agree.

If Smart could ever at least hit league average from 3, learn how to pass better, he'd be an perchance Allstar, or at least in the running of All Defense First or Second team, with votes for even DPOY. He's that good defensively, and his intangibles and hustle definitely match up more favorably well when compared to his woeful offensive stats.

He finished his rookie season 1.5 SPG, and led all Celtics players. Eigth in the entire league, and ranked third among all rookies.

He allowed 0.643 PPO in pick and rolls, and team high nine charges.

You can argue defensive rating is overrated, and overused, especially when KO is ranked 100.00 as the best defender that year to Smart's 101.3.

His rookie season left us impressed, and the next year he did just as well if not better from the eye test.

His scoring? Still dreadful.

But he makes the winning plays that overcompensate his terrible offensive game. And I don't think its even his offense that's bad, but he seems to rush things especially when he's driving. Correct if I'm wrong? He makes the right plays 50 times out of 100, but turns it over, or possibly makes an unforced error.

I think Smart is an skilled and intelligent basketball player who has guts. Kevin Garnett would be proud to have played with him, and I think we really do underestimate how much of an impact Garnett, Piece, and Allen can have on young players. Garnett loves the kids fire, and that alone is already something that rises deep within me.

I guess I'm trying to say I'm not impressed with Rozier. I love his spunk, and his attitude. But most of times he has tunnel vision when passing, and his defense is lazy at times considering his wingspan, and his athleticism. He certainly needs to learn the fundamentals, and gets beat too easily by bad players, especially tonight.

So yes, I would certainly take Smart over Rozier. I just don't like Rozier's game. I'm not a huge fan of it. Maybe I am coming off biased, but I don't see Rozier having a future with the Celtics.
He looks like the odd man out, when you consider his growing trade value, and DJax already in the wing on a team friendly contract.

TP. Agree with all of that. I'd also add that it's primarily just his three point shooting that is still lacking. His progress looked excellent from the midrange in tonight, especially on the pick and roll as the ball handler. And he looked good in penetrating and getting to the hole, though he probably could've finished better on a couple of the misses close to the basket.

[Monkhouse]

Earlier I remember reading a thread, where it was Rozier vs Smart, and who would pan out as the lead starter or successor in a bench role. I've always said Smart, and I think celticsclay? Or maybe hwangjii were saying he was the guard version of Draymond Green, and I agree.

If Smart could ever at least hit league average from 3, learn how to pass better, he'd be an perchance Allstar, or at least in the running of All Defense First or Second team, with votes for even DPOY. He's that good defensively, and his intangibles and hustle definitely match up more favorably well when compared to his woeful offensive stats.

He finished his rookie season 1.5 SPG, and led all Celtics players. Eigth in the entire league, and ranked third among all rookies.

He allowed 0.643 PPO in pick and rolls, and team high nine charges.

You can argue defensive rating is overrated, and overused, especially when KO is ranked 100.00 as the best defender that year to Smart's 101.3.

His rookie season left us impressed, and the next year he did just as well if not better from the eye test.

His scoring? Still dreadful.

But he makes the winning plays that overcompensate his terrible offensive game. And I don't think its even his offense that's bad, but he seems to rush things especially when he's driving. Correct if I'm wrong? He makes the right plays 50 times out of 100, but turns it over, or possibly makes an unforced error.

I think Smart is an skilled and intelligent basketball player who has guts. Kevin Garnett would be proud to have played with him, and I think we really do underestimate how much of an impact Garnett, Piece, and Allen can have on young players. Garnett loves the kids fire, and that alone is already something that rises deep within me.

I guess I'm trying to say I'm not impressed with Rozier. I love his spunk, and his attitude. But most of times he has tunnel vision when passing, and his defense is lazy at times considering his wingspan, and his athleticism. He certainly needs to learn the fundamentals, and gets beat too easily by bad players, especially tonight.

So yes, I would certainly take Smart over Rozier. I just don't like Rozier's game. I'm not a huge fan of it. Maybe I am coming off biased, but I don't see Rozier having a future with the Celtics.
He looks like the odd man out, when you consider his growing trade value, and DJax already in the wing on a team friendly contract.

TP. Agree with all of that. I'd also add that it's primarily just his three point shooting that is still lacking. His progress looked excellent from the midrange in tonight, especially on the pick and roll as the ball handler. And he looked good in penetrating and getting to the hole, though he probably could've finished better on a couple of the misses close to the basket.

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

[CDawg834]

I'm not a fan of Rozier at all.  I feel like he's always looking for his own shot anytime he's on the court to the detriment of the offense.  There's been some very ugly possessions early this year where he clearly decided "I'm shooting on this trip down court no matter what."

[rollie mass]

i judge a guys defence by the way he gets over the top,smart has fullback like lower body strength ,i marvel at how he lowers his shoulder and leverages up against bigs-rozier struggles getting over the top gets hung up and can't recover quick enough-lets call rozier a rookie to regular season ,experience takes time

[showtime]

Smart and Rozier  are both below ave. guards. Smart is to slow to stay with a guard, and to short to guard a forward. Jackson is better then Rozier.

[Snakehead]

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

Personally I think he has a hard time finding a chance to work.  He rarely gets the chance to run the pick and roll.  When he does, he has been looking better and better at it.

I agree with both of you guys on Rozier.

[alldaboston]

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

Personally I think he has a hard time finding a chance to work.  He rarely gets the chance to run the pick and roll.  When he does, he has been looking better and better at it.

I agree with both of you guys on Rozier.

That's exactly how I feel too. He just hasn't had enough opportunities to run the offense, run the pick and roll, stuff like that. It's always just dribble handoffs and cuts and nothing happening and so we take a bad 3.

[iadera]

This game just has to be Brad's one.

[Snakehead]

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

Personally I think he has a hard time finding a chance to work.  He rarely gets the chance to run the pick and roll.  When he does, he has been looking better and better at it.

I agree with both of you guys on Rozier.

That's exactly how I feel too. He just hasn't had enough opportunities to run the offense, run the pick and roll, stuff like that. It's always just dribble handoffs and cuts and nothing happening and so we take a bad 3.

It sucks because that's where he can contribute on offense clearly.  And I think he wants to contribute, so that might lead to him taking bad shots off the catch. 

It makes me worry about the ceiling of the team with all these guards in each others way to some degree.  I think clearly this team will go through some change, but as its currently running its hard to use all these guys how they should be used.

[alldaboston]

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

Personally I think he has a hard time finding a chance to work.  He rarely gets the chance to run the pick and roll.  When he does, he has been looking better and better at it.

I agree with both of you guys on Rozier.

That's exactly how I feel too. He just hasn't had enough opportunities to run the offense, run the pick and roll, stuff like that. It's always just dribble handoffs and cuts and nothing happening and so we take a bad 3.

It sucks because that's where he can contribute on offense clearly.  And I think he wants to contribute, so that might lead to him taking bad shots off the catch. 

It makes me worry about the ceiling of the team with all these guards in each others way to some degree.  I think clearly this team will go through some change, but as its currently running its hard to use all these guys how they should be used.

I couldn't agree more. TP. It leads me to wonder whether Marcus would look like a much better prospect and player if he was playing for a trash team, like Philly, or Orlando, where they let him do what he wants and is comfortable with on offense. It might have also led to faster development from him too.

If there's one gripe I have with Brad and Danny's philosophy of how to run the team, it's the lack of development of our young players. Which, admittedly, is tough when you're trying to win now.

It would be interesting to see how people stand now, in terms of the tanking vs. win now debate that was on this forum a few years ago. I wonder whether any tankers have moved to support the win now side, and whether any win now supporters would, in retrospect, have rather tanked and used games purely for youth development.

[Snakehead]

Thanks, TP back at ya.

I'm not too worried about Smart's shooting, because I know he's a hard worker, so at worst, he's going to try to improve his shot, or at least take smarter ones.

Avery Bradley is an perfect example.

I was pleased with what I saw from Smart tonight.

Do you think Smart was rushing his shot, or do you think his drives will get better as time goes by? Does he even have the chance to score over 15 PPG?

I personally think Smart isn't ever going to blow by, but he can learn how to be more craftier, and post up frequently.

Personally I think he has a hard time finding a chance to work.  He rarely gets the chance to run the pick and roll.  When he does, he has been looking better and better at it.

I agree with both of you guys on Rozier.

That's exactly how I feel too. He just hasn't had enough opportunities to run the offense, run the pick and roll, stuff like that. It's always just dribble handoffs and cuts and nothing happening and so we take a bad 3.

It sucks because that's where he can contribute on offense clearly.  And I think he wants to contribute, so that might lead to him taking bad shots off the catch. 

It makes me worry about the ceiling of the team with all these guards in each others way to some degree.  I think clearly this team will go through some change, but as its currently running its hard to use all these guys how they should be used.

I couldn't agree more. TP. It leads me to wonder whether Marcus would look like a much better prospect and player if he was playing for a trash team, like Philly, or Orlando, where they let him do what he wants and is comfortable with on offense. It might have also led to faster development from him too.

If there's one gripe I have with Brad and Danny's philosophy of how to run the team, it's the lack of development of our young players. Which, admittedly, is tough when you're trying to win now.

It would be interesting to see how people stand now, in terms of the tanking vs. win now debate that was on this forum a few years ago. I wonder whether any tankers have moved to support the win now side, and whether any win now supporters would, in retrospect, have rather tanked and used games purely for youth development.

I really would not have done a single thing differently and think we're in a great position, but it's again just hard to imagine this roster somehow achieving ECF goals for me right now.  I hesitate to say it because we just haven't been healthy, but it's my gut feeling.  I know Ainge has been looking for trades constantly, no doubt about it, so I'm fine with the entire plan for sure but it just makes me wish one of those trades could come along sooner.

We will see though.  I don't want to be an overreaction guy early in the season, again because the roster hasn't even been close to healthy.