Author Topic: sully lookin too good  (Read 13495 times)

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Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2016, 08:13:49 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm confused by your list of transactions, because no one signed a free agent contract with a new team larger than Sullinger's contract after Sullinger's QO was rescinded.  And of the 6 teams with cap space, only Brooklyn actually has a need for a PF, but Sullinger is far too similar to Brook Lopez for them to be a good fit (and at the time Crabbe was still signed to the offer sheet, which was a huge portion of their cap space).

Sullinger signed for 6 Million

July 26 update

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4:30 p.m. ET: Restricted free agent Maurice Harkless has signed a new four-year, $42 million deal to stay with the Portland Trail Blazers, his agent told ESPN.com's Marc Stein. The Blazers' signing of Harkless follows Monday's contract extension with reigning NBA Most Improved Player C.J. McCollum,

That is seven million which is more than six.

July 25 updates

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3:05 p.m. ET: The Miami Heat and free agent guard Dion Waiters have agreed to a two-year contract worth $6 million with a player option in the second year of the deal, as first reported Monday by The Vertical and confirmed by ESPN. Waiters averaged 9.8 points for the Oklahoma City Thunder last season.

Same as Sully.

July 19 updates

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12:55 a.m. ET: Veteran sharpshooter Mike Miller is nearing agreement on a two-year deal in the $6 million range to return to the Denver Nuggets, league sources tell ESPN's Marc Stein. Miller, 36, played last season in Denver after spending four of the previous five seasons alongside close friend LeBron James in Miami and Cleveland.

Same as Sully,

July 18 updates

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12:29 p.m. ET: Restricted free agent big man Miles Plumlee is re-signing with the Milwaukee Bucks on a four-year deal worth $52 million, according to his agent. Plumlee averaged 5.1 points and 3.8 rebounds in 61 games with the Bucks last season.

This offer was more than double what Sully got.

July 14 updates

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7:58 p.m. ET: The San Antonio Spurs completed a flurry of moves Thursday by signing backcourt mainstay Manu Ginobili to a one-year deal at an estimated $14 million, according to league sources. The Spurs announced the re-signing of Ginobili on Thursday night after first using their salary-cap space to sign former All-Star center Pau Gasol, Latvian import Davis Bertans, rookie Dejounte Murray, big man Dewayne Dedmon and young guards Ryan Arcidiacono and Bryn Forbes.

More than Sully.

July 12 updates

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2:03 p.m. ET: The Detroit Pistons have signed center Boban Marjanovic to a three-year, $21 million contract. Detroit announced the deal Tuesday after the San Antonio Spurs didn't match Detroit's offer for the restricted free agent.

More than Sully


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16647240/nba-free-agency-2016-latest-news-buzz-rumors

TEAMS WITH CAP SPACE REMAINING

Additionally, the Sixers have $19,290,799  in cap space and passed on Sully.
The Nets have $17,194,363 with cap space and passed on Sully.
The Nuggets have $15,357,278 in cap space and passed on Sully.
The Suns have $13,242,017 in cap space and passed on Sully.
The Jazz have $11,781,904 in cap space and passed on Sully.
The Timberwolves have $10,171,692 in cap space and passed on Sully.


http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

So as you can see, quite a few teams had some money left and choose not to spend on Sully.   Free Agents were signed for more than he made after he signed as well.   Bottom line is he hurt his value but vanishing in the playoffs and gaining weight during the season once again.
Um, Harkless re-signed on a team with no cap room.  So did Manu.  So did Plumlee.  Not sure why you think that helps you argument.  Boban was signed to the offer sheet before Sullinger was released from his QO, the Spurs just didn't match making that contract go into effect after Sully's QO was released.  The rest of those contracts are not 6 million per year, they are 3 million per year.  Did you miss the 2nd year?

As I implied, the Sixers, Jazz, Nuggets, Suns, and Timberwolves have a glut of bigmen and have no need for another one (I mean given all of the Sixers posts on here I would think you would understand why a team with a lot of bigmen wouldn't want another one).  I already explained the Nets, apparently you just disregarded that as well.  Pretty typical nonsensical response from you to one of my posts.
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Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2016, 08:51:40 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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sully forced to miss pre season game to rest sore foot

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2016, 06:38:24 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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He always "looks fit" in training camp and at the start of the season. 

Then everybody jumps on the "we love Sully" bandwagon.

Then a couple of months later he's looking like Oliver Miller as he stands around on defence staring into the crowd, wondering how he can get his hands on that fan's hot dog.

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2016, 07:34:15 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Um, Harkless re-signed on a team with no cap room.  So did Manu.  So did Plumlee.  Not sure why you think that helps you argument.  Boban was signed to the offer sheet before Sullinger was released from his QO, the Spurs just didn't match making that contract go into effect after Sully's QO was released.  The rest of those contracts are not 6 million per year, they are 3 million per year.  Did you miss the 2nd year?

As I implied, the Sixers, Jazz, Nuggets, Suns, and Timberwolves have a glut of bigmen and have no need for another one (I mean given all of the Sixers posts on here I would think you would understand why a team with a lot of bigmen wouldn't want another one).  I already explained the Nets, apparently you just disregarded that as well.  Pretty typical nonsensical response from you to one of my posts.

There is still enough in my post, to prove your theory is bullcrap.  People could have throw big bucks at him, and Ainge would not have matched.   The reality is no matter how much you spin, is that people did not think he had the value or was not worth the risk.

I get you liked him as a player.   Teams had money and no one made a big offer.   Restricted or no, no one made an offer.   Teams opt not to match, offers all the time but no one thought Sully was worth it.

Ainge did not do him dirty, he did himself dirty by getting out of shape and letting his conditioning go.   

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2016, 09:31:25 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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sully is running and rebounding-we are going to miss the in shape sully
-he is grabbing all the boards and backed down defender getting separation and hit the fall away-vintage sully
That is what he provided for Boston and Boston will clearly miss it.  No one on the team right now is as good a rebounder or low post scorer as Sullinger.  Can't believe we let him go for what he ended up signing for.  Real mistake.  Should have gone with him over Zeller without question.

I would take Zeller over Sully without a doubt.

Zeller might have his limitations, but at least he has a good attitude, a passable work ethic, and understands how to play within himself.

Jared Sullinger is what you get when Al Jefferson gets knocked over the head, gets a major case of amnesia, and starts believing he is Carmelo Anthony. 

He's like an overweight Josh Smith who can't move. In fact that is a pretty stellar comparison!  Josh Smith - a supremely talented / skilled player with a bad attitude and a lazy work ethic who can't shoot, but insisted on trying anyway. The only thing Smith had going for him was elite athleticism.  Sully is basically Josh Smith without the athleticism - ugh.

I, for one, am absolutely thrilled to see him gone - it's best for everybody.  Best for us to not have to deal with his garbage, and best for him in hoping he benefits from a chance in scenery.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 09:45:48 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2016, 09:45:10 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I am super-psyched that we signed a much improved version of him in Horford, but one has to think that Sully was more 'Sulky' than we really knew. The fact that we signed Zeller for more money than Sully makes you have to wonder - Zeller must be a REALLY good locker room guy.

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2016, 09:46:26 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I am super-psyched that we signed a much improved version of him in Horford, but one has to think that Sully was more 'Sulky' than we really knew. The fact that we signed Zeller for more money than Sully makes you have to wonder - Zeller must be a REALLY good locker room guy.

Or else they just REALLY didn't like Sully...

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2016, 10:12:56 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I am super-psyched that we signed a much improved version of him in Horford, but one has to think that Sully was more 'Sulky' than we really knew. The fact that we signed Zeller for more money than Sully makes you have to wonder - Zeller must be a REALLY good locker room guy.

Seriously, the guy must know everyone's favorite Gatorade flavor.

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2016, 10:16:21 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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If it were the same case as Joe Johnson and Chauncy, then I would be salty as the C's would have shown they didn't learn anything. But Sully never reached his potential here, and I honestly don't care if he manages to do it somewhere else. We gave him 3 strikes(not counting his Rookie yr).

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2016, 12:54:29 PM »

Offline jambr380

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If it were the same case as Joe Johnson and Chauncy, then I would be salty as the C's would have shown they didn't learn anything. But Sully never reached his potential here, and I honestly don't care if he manages to do it somewhere else. We gave him 3 strikes(not counting his Rookie yr).

Yeah, it's all well and good when you have a player under the rookie salary scale going through ups and downs, but that changes when you really have to make a decision.

My guess is Sully wanted more money and more years from the Cs originally, but never stood a chance. This probably made him feel insulted. When he looked on the open market, he probably thought he could have had gotten a decent contract. He then had to settle, but he sure as heck wasn't doing that with the Cs.

Seriously, though - all things being equal, if Danny had a chance at Sully or Zeller and chose Zeller, then I am pretty disappointed. One was our starting pf/c and leading rebounder, the other is end of the bench fodder.

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2016, 03:52:11 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Zeller is basically Brian Scalabrine. He is just good enough to be on an NBA team and contribute as a big. They are good for the locker room. They are what Gerald Wallace was becoming as he adjusted to being a bench player but was simply out of gas.

He serves the Brandon Bass role. They are good guys who won't make waves. They might even help you win some games if forced to go with them.

I think the signing of Zeller means Danny is not too impressed with Jordan Mickey and sees Zeller as a complement to Olynyk as a different kind of center. Zeller's problem is he doesn't seem too eager to develop his game. He seems a bit soft for a tall guy. It's unfortunate because Rollie is correct he is very skilled for those jumpers, running the floor and with good touch around the rim. Zeller is basically Nenad Krstic if anyone remembers him. Maybe not as good but similar. I think that's Zeller's ceiling to be an efficient soft European type center.

Re: sully lookin too good
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2016, 05:26:39 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Zeller is basically Brian Scalabrine. He is just good enough to be on an NBA team and contribute as a big. They are good for the locker room. They are what Gerald Wallace was becoming as he adjusted to being a bench player but was simply out of gas.

He serves the Brandon Bass role. They are good guys who won't make waves. They might even help you win some games if forced to go with them.

I feel you're selling Bass short there in a big way.  Sure he was never a star or a big name player, but he made some really big contributions to this team - not only in the regular season, but in the playoffs as well.  Even playing alongside the likes of Rondo, Pierce and Garnett, bass still always managed to find ways to stand out from time to time. 

He was a really hard working guy who improved ever year he was on the roster, and who contributed on both ends of the court.  I see him as our "Tony Allen" type over that stretch - a guy who wasn't flash or a stat sheet stuffer, but just did a lot to help our success.

Given a choice between the current version of Sully or Bass from 3-4 years ago, I would take Bass in a heartbeat.  At least with Bass there were two things you always knew you would get from him - effort and consistency. 

You knew you could count on Bass every night to give you 12-15 efficient points along with 5-8 rebounds and some tough defensive effort.  I would give my right testicle (not really, but you get my drift) if we could EVER get all of those things from Sully on a consistent basis.

As for Zeller, he's not so bad.  Since he became a Celtic he's put up consistently strong Per-36 numbers (around 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 52% FG).

He's also fairly mobile for a 7-footer, he's been effective at the line (32.5% career Free Throw Rate, 78% FT) and he's shot nice career percentages from everywhere inside the three point line, as can be seen below:

0-2 feet: 63.3%
3-9 feet: 40.4%
10-15 feet: 41.7%
> 16 feet: 40.1%

In fact in that regard, offensively, Zeller is a lot like Al Horford before he added the three point shot.  I say that because like Horford he's not much of a shot creator, but if you can get him open looks from pretty much anywhere inside the three point line, he's a knock down shooter and can make them all day lone.

The downsides are that he's a below average rebounder and he's a below average defender...but you could the same about Jahlil Okafor too, and how many people here were crazy about going after him? 

In 14-15 Zeller had a fairly consistent role, and he actually played reallywell for us. He gave us 10.2 points, 5.7 rebounds and 1.4 assists in only 21 MPG while shooting 55% from the field and 82% from the line.  He had a net rating of +14 that seasons (119 offensive, 105 defensive) - in fact, aside from his rookie year, he's never finished a season with a negative net rating.

If Zeller were to get consistent playing time in the 15-20 MPG range over the course of a season I've got no doubt he'd improve as he develops better chemistry with the other guys on the court.  It's been hard for him to do that the past year because he was barely getting minutes, and when he did they were sporadic and unpredictable. 

I'm not by any means saying he's a great starting caliber big man - hell no.  But as a backup center he's pretty capable if you have the right guys around him, and given how good a locker room guy he has been I think he deserves the right to try and earn a role.   

Sully on the other hand had a major role for this team for four years, and (other then his rookie year) didn't manage to get through a single season without constant hiccups and question marks.  He's had his chances (and then some) and didn't make the most of them - time to move on.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:57:24 PM by crimson_stallion »