What makes a star player

[walker834]

Kelly Olynyk to me is a perfect example of a young athlete today who is talented enough to be a star but he isn't.  He seems so content with just learning and going through the motions right now.  Maybe a light or something will light a spark under him someday but he plays the game without that mentality. He's 7 feet, can shoot and has all the tools to be a very good player but plays the game so passively.  he is lacking that mindset of a guy like brady. 

[Tr1boy]

Kelly Olynyk to me is a perfect example of a young athlete today who is talented enough to be a star but he isn't.  He seems so content with just learning and going through the motions right now.  Maybe a light or something will light a spark under him someday but he plays the game without that mentality. He's 7 feet, can shoot and has all the tools to be a very good player but plays the game so passively.  he is lacking that mindset of a guy like brady.

It took him 4 years in college to become noticeable

Next year he will be better

[walker834]

Kelly Olynyk to me is a perfect example of a young athlete today who is talented enough to be a star but he isn't.  He seems so content with just learning and going through the motions right now.  Maybe a light or something will light a spark under him someday but he plays the game without that mentality. He's 7 feet, can shoot and has all the tools to be a very good player but plays the game so passively.  he is lacking that mindset of a guy like brady.

It took him 4 years in college to become noticeable

Next year he will be better

That's the thing with him I think he's just a slow learner and will be good. Last year he showed signs at times.  It's like he just has to get enough skills and improve a little each year where he'll eventually get there. He's the anti brady though.

He looked like  a superstar at times last year.  He's one of those guys where it will come easy to him because he'll just have enough shots and skills ultimately or something.

Mchale was like that.  He wasn't bird.  But Mchale was pretty [dang] good.  I don't know if Kelly will be that good though.  He may just be an average player and not have the talent of a guy like bender or porzingis.   Bradley is kind of a step below talentwse like that but improves enough each year.

KO looks like a stud at times. Sully has had his struggles himself.  Bradley, KO, Sully all guys ainge drafted who could be really good by the time they are 27 or 28. Their talent level is a notch below the paul george's of the world though and Porzingis and guys like that though.

They have holes in their games. They aren't superstar talents that way.

[walker834]

A lot of these guys are being raised in a bubble that way.  KO is a  bubble boy right now. He's coddled and just learning where eventually maybe he'll be good. Or he'll just always be that way.

I'm more tom brady's age though.  KG.  Pierce.  Brad Stevens. Tim Duncan.  Danny Ainge and KO are more boomer and millennial helicopter parent stuff.

[GreenFaith1819]

Good answers this thread.

I'd add Environment, as well.

Team tradition, coach, staff, GM, President, Ownership, fan base.

[crimson_stallion]

To put it simply, you generally need one or more of the following:


1. Talent to score 1-on-1 offense

Most stars have some kind of special talent that allows them to gain an advantage over their opponents, and utilise that advantage to create offense in isolation situations.

This could be:
* An explosive first step that allows you to blow past the average NBA defender
* Outstanding footwork/ball handling to allow you to create space and freeze opponents
* Unreal shooting range that makes you extremely tough for defenders to get out to
* Outstanding length and/or vertical that allows you to shoot over opponents
* Dominant strength that allows you move guys off their spot and get easy baskets


2. Elite defence/rebounding

Guys like DeAndre Jordan, Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace were able to establish themselves as stars even though they were never great scorers, because they were utterly dominant on D and on the boards


3. Intangibles
- High basketball IQ
- Motor
- Work Ethic
- Swagger / confidence
- Respect for authority
- Desire to win / motivation to be great


The way I see it, point #1 (ability to create offense) and point #2 (ability to dominate on D / boards) tend to determine how high a player's potential / ceiling is. 

Point #3 (intangibles) tend to determine how likely the player is of realising that potential.


This is why I don't see Bender and Murray.  I don't feel that those two guys have the tools (be it physical advantages or skill advantages) to allow them to become elite offensive players (i.e. guys who can create their own offense at will), nor do I see either of those two guys having the potential to become elite defensive players (ability to dominate games defence and on the boards).   

Simmons (athleticism and ball handling), Ingram (length and shooting ability), Dunn (quickness, length and ball handling ability), Hield (quickness, length and shooting range), Brown (size, strength and athleticism) and Labissiere (explosive athleticism and shooting touch) all have the tools - just a matter of whether they'll make the most of them and reach their potential.

Murray I think is just at too much of a physical disadvantage.  Guys who aren't physically gifted had made it in the past - Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving and Deron Williams being perfect examples.  But all three of those guys have been able to rely on exceptional ball handling skills in order to freeze opponents and create space, and Murray has shown no sign of being able to develop that type of elite skill as a ball handler.

Bender has some solid physical tools and a pretty solid foundation of skills - but he has a long way to go in terms of both his body (strength, specifically) and his skill set if he wants to become dominant enough to be a star.  It's not entirely out of the question, but it's a real long shot.  At this point he's really only good enough to take what the defence gives him - to be a star you have to be capable of creating something from nothing, and Bender is nowhere near that point right now - and I'm not entirely sure if he ever will be.

[crimson_stallion]

Kelly Olynyk to me is a perfect example of a young athlete today who is talented enough to be a star but he isn't.  He seems so content with just learning and going through the motions right now.  Maybe a light or something will light a spark under him someday but he plays the game without that mentality. He's 7 feet, can shoot and has all the tools to be a very good player but plays the game so passively.  he is lacking that mindset of a guy like brady.

To be honest, I think it's more an issue with his physical ability then anything.

Kelly is a seven footer who is pretty mobile laterally and who runs the floor very well - but he just doesn't the physical tools to gain an advantage on a nightly bases.  He doesn't have the type of explosive quickness to beat guys off the dribble at will.  He doesn't have the leaping ability to jump over guys.  Doesn't have the physical strength to push guys around down low and force his way into position.  Doesn't have the length to shoot over guys in the paint. 

He also doesn't have the quickest release on his shot - he's quite a methodical shooter, it takes him time to get set, elevate, and release.  Because of this, he actually needs quite a bit of space to get his shot off, and that leads to him lacking the confidence to shoot it a lot of the time if he sees a defending closing out on him.

He'll often have good games when he's up against guys who are really slow footed and immobile defensively, as he can use his agility and ball handling to get by them and get to the basket.  Likewise he can score inside against much smaller guys if he has a mismatch.  Also if he is up against a team that doesn't close out on shooters well/quickly, then he can really heat up and hurt you from three.

Problem is that he really depends on those specific matchup scenarios tin order to contribute heavily on offence.  On defence he is much more consistent - not dominant by any means, but he plays hard, doesn't give up on plays, contests everything, moves and switches well, always finds himself in the right place.  Even holds his own in the post sometimes against dominate offensive players by getting good position and forcing his opponent into uncomfortable shots. 

My fear with Dragan Bender is that when I see him play, I pretty much see all of what I just described in him too.  I can see him, much like Olynyk, struggling against average NBA competition.  I feel like he's going to be the type of guy who is only going to be able to dominate when he's got very specific matchups that he can manipulate and take advantage of. 

I think Olynyk is good enough to be a full time starter, but only if he is playing in the right type of rotation.  If you have  a dominant big man (Dwight Howard, Demarcus Cousins, etc) who can draw a ton of attention from the defence, then that could give a guy like Olynyk the type of space he needs to be a very dangerous role player.  He could be really deadly in the right situation. 

[walker834]

Good points.  I have the same questions about KO. Bender also reminds me of him and has the same issues in ways too although appears to have more upside, but he has the same issues with lift at times.  Tommy always gets upset with KO because he gets in the lane and chokes.  He doesn't have the lift is why he does this. He also doesn't have a shot in that situation.  This is where Mchale could be good for a guy like that.  I agree though.  I question what KO's upside really is.  I think Bender has more though.  Difference between a top 3 pick and a guy who was drafted at 12 though.  It doesn't always work that way but seems like it.

Bender to me seems to play with more of that star mentality has a legit wingspan etc.   Seems to glide at times when he gets in the lane but has the same issues too where his  lift appears to be an issue. 

KO can get up though at times. Both guys can. The bounce is real people.  We can't forget that lol.  KO brings it out sometimes.

Not to t urn this into a KO thread but KO is one guy who seems to have star potential sometimes on this team outside of Isaiah.  I think over Sully and Bradley.  Crowder is maxing his potential.  KO is the guy with the most upside next to Isaiah.  We would need a guy like Cousins to go with him though.

[mr. dee]

Talent
Athleticism
Physical tools
Hard work
Focus

and "Star" calls by the refs.  That's a dead giveaway.

Nah. Star treatment are earned. If you become a top tier super stars, you'll get calls just by defenders breathing on you.

[Thruthelookingglass]

Talent
Athleticism
Physical tools
Hard work
Focus

and "Star" calls by the refs.  That's a dead giveaway.

Nah. Star treatment are earned. If you become a top tier super stars, you'll get calls just by defenders breathing on you.

You caught me.  I reversed cause and effect in an attempt to highlight the irony of star treatment.  TP.

[flybono]

Larry Bird

[SHAQATTACK]

MJ

[__ramonezy__]

An often overlooked aspect of a star player is opportunity.

Timberwolves is 20-win team but they are giving their young pieces the opportunity to develop into stars. Utah is doing something similar.

We are stuck somewhere in between, where we're rebuilding and pushing for the playoffs at the same time which limits the opportunity for our young players to become stars.