Lowe/Simmons on Rondo and the C's

[Fan from VT]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

[ctrey]

Rondo must go. He just put up another triple double yet we lost. I think of all of his triple doubles, we have won one. I am sure that is not common.

[Shamrocker]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

One of your many assumptions is that Rondo will resign, even if we don't dramatically improve the roster by acquiring a real, two-way impact player this summer. You stress that "Mediocrity is okay"  I'm not sure a player of Rondo's caliber will want to spend the next few seasons wallowing in mediocrity.

[BitterJim]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

One quick thing, a max contract is defined by the % of the cap, but the dollar amounts are decided when the contract is signed, so cap increases don't matter (instead, there are raises each year, up to 5% for non-bird rights, 7.5% with bird rights)

Other than that, though, this is all spot on.  TP

[GratefulCs]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

[BleedGreen1989]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Seriously, where do you get off having such logic on CB?

[ctrey]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Really? Do that? I hope you enjoy 43 win seasons for 5 years.  Rondo is not a top ten point guard in the modern NBA. He can not score as point guards now must and he is a liability in the 4th because of his horrific free throw shooting. There is not a single player on our team currently that shows the ability to be a lock as a starter on a top 4 NBA team. I thought Sully may be but he has cratered lately. We need to tank. now.

[TheFlex]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Really? Do that? I hope you enjoy 43 win seasons for 5 years.  Rondo is not a top ten point guard in the modern NBA. He can not score as point guards now must and he is a liability in the 4th because of his horrific free throw shooting. There is not a single player on our team currently that shows the ability to be a lock as a starter on a top 4 NBA team. I thought Sully may be but he has cratered lately. We need to tank. now.

Sully is 22. Night in, night out is the next step. He's far more consistent than he was last season and has expanded the dimensions to his game. It's undeniable that he's in a slump, but it's an overreaction to say he couldn't start on a top 4 team, whether you are referring to the present or the future.

[GratefulCs]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that winth the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Really? Do that? I hope you enjoy 43 win seasons for 5 years.  Rondo is not a top ten point guard in the modern NBA. He can not score as point guards now must and he is a liability in the 4th because of his horrific free throw shooting. There is not a single player on our team currently that shows the ability to be a lock as a starter on a top 4 NBA team. I thought Sully may be but he has cratered lately. We need to tank. now.

The thing is, if Rondo is signed to a reasonable deal, and Marcus smart seems like he could take the reigns, it wouldn't be hard to trade rondo at that point since he'd be signed longer than half a year. Or maybe they show they can rock it together.


I think that if we made some good trades and free agent signings, rondo could lead a contender again


But we would still have options if we go that route. In fact, going that route doesn't mean we'll have a terrible pick this year either

[droopdog7]

Lowe on Rondo-
He's not better than Lowry or Conley, he might not be better than either Bledsoe or Dragic. He's not a max player anymore and I don't think the Celtics want to give him a max deal.



*Rondo trade idea, Bargnani (expiring) and 1st rd pick (2015) for Rondo and LAC 1st rd pick (2015). Neither thinks Knicks would do it.

*Lowe thinks that Denver would probably be the most interesting team Rondo could be traded to.

Do I understand this correctly, ie that Simmons agrees with Lowe's assessment of RR's value?

I agree with both of them.  Rondo isn't worth much, contract or not. 

[Rondo9]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Really? Do that? I hope you enjoy 43 win seasons for 5 years.  Rondo is not a top ten point guard in the modern NBA. He can not score as point guards now must and he is a liability in the 4th because of his horrific free throw shooting. There is not a single player on our team currently that shows the ability to be a lock as a starter on a top 4 NBA team. I thought Sully may be but he has cratered lately. We need to tank. now.

Rondo is a top 5 point guard, and there's plenty of potential on this team (even if they're not superstar potential.)

[PAOBoston]

I think this is where I currently stand on Rondo and the C's plans.

I think that good players tend to stay good for longer than people generally expect and/or acknowledge. Look at Duncan in SA. Kobe went through a few different team builds. Look at the C's; a lot of people said we'd get 2-3 good years and pay for it later; that was 5+ years legit contention. I don't think you need to dump good players in order to rebuild; again, pierce, duncan, wade, dirk, etc.

I think young players who are acutally going to be good are usually pretty good pretty quickly, sooner than most acknowledge. Most of the perception that young stars are not good comes from looking at team success, but most of the time a good young player is a high lotto pick and most high lotto picks go to bad, stripped bare teams that take time to add all the needed pieces back. But look at Duncan, Rose, Wade, Curry, Davis (if NO played in the East); these good players were on playoff teams quickly because they went to average to good teams instead of total tank teams.

Therefor, what I think I would do is:

- Keep Rondo. I think he'll ba solid to good for a while, and valuable to have if other pieces are added. I believe a true "max" contract is actually defined as a percentage of a team's capspace. So i think that with the impending cap increases, Rondo locked in at 30% of the c's cap or whatever is too much; if he wants that and gets it from someone else you bite the bullet and let him walk. But you could offer a very good competitive contract, as high as 5 years starting at 15 or so that looks like a near max, but would become increasingly team friendly if the cap jumps up as predicted and his stays defined as true dollar amounts.

- Keep Smart. If he ends up being really good, well really good players figure out how to co-exist. And if he and rondo are good but can't quite co-exist, you trade one then, once Smart is established as valuable and Rondo is no longer a 1/2 season rental. 

- Don't overpay Green, but try to keep him at a fair price as a useful 4th-5th man.

- Keep one of sully/olynyk ( i think sully is better), but ok to move one if you get a legit Defensive big back (ie if Utah would bite on Oly/bass for Favors because they want Oly's bigman spacing with Kanter).

- Try not to overpay just for a playoff appearance that would impinge cap flexibility. "Mediocrity" with our current core is probably ok.

- Keep those Brooklyn picks (unless, obviously, the unrealistic scenario of a superstar wanting to force themselves to get traded to Rondo and Boston suddenly for a bizarre reason happens). Those are potential golden tickets to getting a Rose/Curry/Wade onto an average team and jumping up to playoff/contender status within a couple seasons.

So then you're looking at Rondo at a good contract for him but a relatively team friendly deal once the cap jumps hit. Same for Bradley as a 6th man or so. Maybe Green too. You've got Sully as a rebounding scoring piece (presumably extended at a non-max deal). Maybe a defensive piece from dealing Olynyk. Maybe a potential young stud from either our own or Brooklyn's picks (ignoring position, an equivalent of a today's drummond/Irving/embiid type that a good vet might want to join to ease their aging burden). A very good respected coach, respected GM and respected organization. Suddenly a Davis/Durant age FA might be looking at that as a landing spot. If not, maybe the pieces are in place to build from within; maybe a couple of picks pan out and you can build a Memphis style by trading for an "over the hill malcontent" like Randolph (by that time maybe it's melo) who still has a lot of good ball left. Who knows?

Come on. That makes way too much sense, haha


I think we'd probably be best off going that route (signing rondo to a reasonable deal and play with smart, or let him walk).  A max contract could be a tough pill to swallow.


TP

Really? Do that? I hope you enjoy 43 win seasons for 5 years.  Rondo is not a top ten point guard in the modern NBA. He can not score as point guards now must and he is a liability in the 4th because of his horrific free throw shooting. There is not a single player on our team currently that shows the ability to be a lock as a starter on a top 4 NBA team. I thought Sully may be but he has cratered lately. We need to tank. now.

Rondo is a top 5 point guard, and there's plenty of potential on this team (even if they're not superstar potential.)

Rondo is not a top 5 pg. At least not anymore. I don't know many elite point guards who shoot 30% from the free throw line and who are a complete liability in the 4th quarter of games.

[Celtics4ever]

Sully is 22. Night in, night out is the next step. He's far more consistent than he was last season and has expanded the dimensions to his game. It's undeniable that he's in a slump, but it's an overreaction to say he couldn't start on a top 4 team, whether you are referring to the present or the future.

Say hi, to Harry Potter while your in fantasy land.   He is a horrible defender.

[indeedproceed]

Sully is 22. Night in, night out is the next step. He's far more consistent than he was last season and has expanded the dimensions to his game. It's undeniable that he's in a slump, but it's an overreaction to say he couldn't start on a top 4 team, whether you are referring to the present or the future.

Say hi, to Harry Potter while your in fantasy land.   He is a horrible defender.

There are no good post defenders on the Cs. The fact that people point to Tyler Zeller as such is proof that we're starved.

But that has other ripples. Next to Omer Asik, would Sully by as bad? No. Would Olynyk? No.

Not having a backstop means the whole defense falls apart. Try and run the Thibideau defense, see what happens. We funnel guys to the middle, and they score. Team defense is great and all, but it's like an arch. You need a capstone. Without a capstone, it falls under the slightest pressure.

[ronaldo943]

Hi I'm Ron.