Gordon or Randle?

[Tr1boy]

At certain points coming into the year and at the beginning Randle was touted as the number one pick. When Kentucky started to play poorly so did he and it had a lot to do with their team being young and very selfish pg play. That all changed in the tourney and they made a run with him as the lead dog.

Randle in high school was right on par with wiggins and Parker. I think he has the most talent and best chance to be a star player. At his size to have his handle and his motor at his age is pretty amazing.

I'd take randle.

I agree with you on your point. Just his lack of jumper and getting stuffed enough times is worrisome.

If he's getting stuffed a lot in college, it's only going to get worse in the NBA

I agree unless he has improved on his jump shot.

[Tr1boy]

I wish we had a hole at the PF spot because I could get excited about Randle, Vonleh, or Gordon.

Have to say Randle though in a vacuum.

Vonleh may work out as a 5, he measured pretty big at the combine, and may not be done growing.

Hole or no hole, though, you gotta go BPA here.

Vonleh is big enough to play C in the NBA even if he doesn't keep growing.  But considering his age and the length of his arms , it wouldn't be at all surprising if he grew another inch or two.

Yeah, I think Vonleh would be the "home run" pick I could certainly get behind.

I think he has the highest ceiling, but the lowest floor also.

I think Vonleh could play the 5, but I feel his more natural position is the PF. Similar to Al Horford.

Vonleh i doubt will be anything like Al Horford. Horford's IQ and feel for game is pretty advanced actually. That's why he can get away playing the center position , though he has the body of a pf.  Vonleh prob has half the iq and feel for the game.

Vonleh could end up becoming like a Andray Blatche/Marreese Speights but with better character.   

[chambers]

I think Gordon is the safest pick to be a great NBA player, I think he has the lowest ceiling of most guys around this range, but he'll still be a great piece at some point. I'm worried about his position in the NBA but our guys will look at that in workouts.
I take a Vonleh at this spot because of his age and size (like Gordon he can still grow).
If smart is there then he's the guy.

But between those two I take Vonleh. He's raw and 18 yrs old, by the age of 22 he could be a monster with some work in the post.

[knuckleballer]

I wish we had a hole at the PF spot because I could get excited about Randle, Vonleh, or Gordon.

Have to say Randle though in a vacuum.

Vonleh may work out as a 5, he measured pretty big at the combine, and may not be done growing.

Hole or no hole, though, you gotta go BPA here.

Vonleh is big enough to play C in the NBA even if he doesn't keep growing.  But considering his age and the length of his arms , it wouldn't be at all surprising if he grew another inch or two.

Yeah, I think Vonleh would be the "home run" pick I could certainly get behind.

I think he has the highest ceiling, but the lowest floor also.

I think Vonleh could play the 5, but I feel his more natural position is the PF. Similar to Al Horford.

Vonleh i doubt will be anything like Al Horford. Horford's IQ and feel for game is pretty advanced actually. That's why he can get away playing the center position , though he has the body of a pf.  Vonleh prob has half the iq and feel for the game.

Vonleh could end up becoming like a Andray Blatche/Marreese Speights but with better character.

That's a tough comparison to make since Vonleh is just 18 years old.  Horford only scored 5.6 points and 6.5 rebounds per game as a freshman.   Vonleh was 11 and 9 for comparison without much more playing time.

[Tr1boy]

I would choose Gordon also. Randle is a perfect pf for the college game, but could struggle in the nba on both ends.   Or maybe he might do ok. He is actually a good post defender and hard to move, on the offensive end he was usually going up against 3 guys (even though at times he didn't have to do it).

So what happens then in the nba when only 1 guy defends him, can he pull an Al Jefferson consistently?? On the defensive end he might be strong enough to not give up position and neutralize his man.

If Randle had a decent jump shot like a David West or Ibaka, i would probably choose Randle then. Actually Randle would easily go in the top 5 then.

It would be interesting to see what happens inside the celtics war room and with the other 2 or 3 teams picking in the top 5 , if both Randle and Gordon all of a sudden look like sharpshooters at the private workouts.

[knuckleballer]

I think Gordon is the safest pick to be a great NBA player, I think he has the lowest ceiling of most guys around this range, but he'll still be a great piece at some point. I'm worried about his position in the NBA but our guys will look at that in workouts.
I take a Vonleh at this spot because of his age and size (like Gordon he can still grow).
If smart is there then he's the guy.

But between those two I take Vonleh. He's raw and 18 yrs old, by the age of 22 he could be a monster with some work in the post.

If we draft Vonleh, what do we do with Sully?  Do we trade him or try to play them together?

[Surferdad]

gordon is a tweener, everyone keeps on talking aboout his great athleticism but his wingspan is actually shorter than randle, and randle must have 30 pounds on him. i have vonleh ahead of both and randle ahead of gordon, i'll hate to get gordon,.

I agree...I'd have to take Randle, as I think he has higher upside and higher trade value.  Trade value is important because if I got either of those guys they would become instant trade bait. 

I think both of these guys are very high risks to turn out major busts. 

I think Randle will struggle to dominate against NBA size the way he did against smaller adn weaker college players, and I think that lack of physical dominance will expose his relative lack of skills in the post. I think this will in turn expose his lack of skills from the perimeter, because when he struggles to score in the post he isn't going to have a backup act.

I think Gordon will become a tweener in the purest form.  I think he will get absolutely tortured defensively at the PF spot thanks to his lack of height and slight frame.  I think his offense at the PF spot will be limited to the occasional hustle point and put back, because he lacks the post moves or inside touch to score against NBA size.  I think he'll struggle a the SF spot because of his relative lack of scoring touch, and his (IMO) overated ball handling ability.  I think he'll become a pure slasher who gets a few points here and there from the free throw line and (again) from putbacks.  Ultimately I think he will fade into mediocrity and will end up being a defensive role player in the mould of Gerald Wallace - he might peak out as a above average starter, then eventually fade to a defensive specialist off the bench.  Like Wallace his most noteworthy career achievements will probably be putting on some fancy shows in the All-Star dunk contest...ohterwise he'll just be yet another super athletic NBA talent who never really amounted to much.

Vonleh I think will be different.  He is just too young and too skilled to not amount to something, regardless of his IQ.  How many 18 year old's have come in to the NBA with those type of physical attributes combined with a post game, a silky smooth jump shot (out to the three point line), elite rebounding and major defensive capabilities...only to end up a nobody?  I can't think of any.  It's very rare to find a big man with a skill set that versatile, and I think he is all but certain to become a future All-Star (or at least a borderline All-Star).

I think Smart is different too.  There are just too many good sized combo guards coming in to the league these days that turn out to be very nice players - Dwyane Wade, Bradley Beal, Damian Lillard, Derek Rose, Russel Westbrook, Victor Oladipo, etc.  It seems like 6'4" scoring combo guards are the flavour of the month in the NBA, and guys like this just seem to slide really easilly in to the NBA game.  The biggest knock on Smart is his lack of a jumper. but many of the above guys (such as Wade, Wall, Rose) all had that same problem when they came in to the league...and still do really.  Despite this, those guys were able to become high level scorers at the NBA level.  I think Smart will follow in that mould and I think his floor will be a 16/4/5 type, with his leader's mentality and defensive abilities being the 'icing on the cake' so to speak. 

For that reason I think Vonleh and Smart will be the next best players after the top 4.

With the fab melo incident dont think danny takes vonleh. Stevens wont have the patients either. Vonleh is not as bad but has pretty mediocre iq and feel for the game

Ok, there is a BIG difference between Vonleh and Fab.

Fab Melo was questioned for  his work ethic, he was questioned for his skill level, and he had only played basketball for two years.  His IQ wasn't just average or below average, it was Javale McGee bad.  Vonleh's IQ is a weakness, but it's not that bad.

Also Fab melo never had Vonleh's skill set.  Fab had practically no post game, an unspectacular jumper, couldn't make an open layup 5 feet from the basket, and rebounded like a small forward.  If Fab had Vonleh's post game, his willingness to bang inside, his shooting ability, finishing ability and his rebounding ability...his career would have gone VERY differently.

Plus there is no shortage of big men who went far despite mediocre IQ. Dwight Howard is a perfect example.  Dwight might be a freak athlete, but he doesn't have anything even remotely close to Vonleh's offensive versatility.  Yet as much as dwight may be a physical specimen now, when he entered the league his measurements (height, weight, length, etc) were very similar to Vonleh's.  Vonleh is a 6'10", 240 lbs guy with a 7'4" wingspan, a 36.5" max vertical and 7% body fat.  Physically average he is not.

I don't follow college hoops anymore, and have only studied the reports on this draft class very recently. However, this assessment sounds right to me. I would take a high-risk high-upside guy like Vonleh. It is true that most true centers with size and talent rarely fail completely. Fab is simply not a good comparison. I also have my doubts about Randle at the next level. No one can say he will be better than Sully.  REPEAT: No one can say he will be better than Sully.  Gordon is the choice for defensive-minded fans but I heard he can't shoot, at all, including free throws. That sounds like a player who won't be even as good as Tony Allen.

So my answer to the OP is neither. I want Vonleh.

[Nef-Oracle]

Aaron Gordon for sure.