What's the grace period on Rondo?

[BballTim]

At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

When he is on his next contract as a Celtic.

  By then it will be too late. The sweet spot for busting that myth is before he's healthy, and the target audience is people who weren't paying any attention to the 09-12 nba playoffs.

[KGs Knee]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

[quote/]author: labrd33

Here we go again...

I like you as a user, but sometimes you really just try to kick Rondo down a notch... I don't get why you hate him so much.. He is coming off an ACL injury... Do you really want the Knicks to get him, or what?

Did Rondo by any chance score on one of your favorite player, and make you lose a bet on the off-chance Rondo wouldn't have a triple double on a certain game?

In under 30 minutes, Rondo almost scored a triple double. 13/8/8 isn't good enough?

I don't hate Rondo. I love Rondo.  I do feel like he is vastly overrated by a select few members on this forum though. 

The fact that you think Rondo's 13/8/8 last night was "good enough" illustrates this point wonderfully.  He shot 35% and had 6 turnovers in a loss.  It was a bad game.   

I don't expect the bad games to continue... I don't care that he's been horrible through 5 games. I just wanted to get an idea of how long we should expect to see dreadful performances out of Rondo.  Looks like the apologists are already willing to give Rondo a pass on this season.   

He's my favorite player on the team... but it's been an endless debate on this forum whether or not you can build a team around the likes of Rondo.  I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.  SOme are adamant he's a notch below LeBron.  Some are adamant that he can lead a team of scrubs to the playoffs.  It's not happening right now.  Is that rust?  His injury?  Do we just need to give him more time?  Or was th idea of Rondo being on the same level of CHris Paul, LeBron, Durant always just absurd?  This season was finally supposed to end the debate. Rondo no longer has hall-of-fame teammates and a coach tailoring a system for his skills and weaknesses.  I was told this was the season Rondo was going to prove the "haters" wrong, leap into superstardom and lead a team of mediocre players to glory.  I guess now that's postponed until next season?... At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

I actually feel Rondo is extremely underrated by Celtics fans. He has been called a diva and in this town that will destroy your good will. I honestly feel people yearn for Phil Pressey to take over the point full time. Pressey is everything Boston fans overrate and love. A guy who works his way into the rotation, an underdog, and unheralded. Once Rondo started receiving media attention a small part of the fan base I feel turned on him. He's an excellent point guard and I'll be thrilled when he leaves for nothing in 2015. Then maybe people will learn not to try and push out star players.

Rondo surely isn't going to leave Boston just because a few wack-jobs feel the need to disparage him out of some sick desire to troll the rest of the fan base.

If Rondo leaves there are a variety of reasons that may happen. None of them are likely to include "well so-and-so said mean, nasty, untrue things about me on some random blog".

[RJ87]

To answer your question about when you can start judging Rondo--- well, you clearly already have, so why bother? According to a post of yours in another thread about Rondo not meshing with Green, you said something to the extent of Rondo being crap so far, and his trade value is already plummeting. So you're clearly already judging

Exactly.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, he pretty much has his mind made up about Rondo based on previous posts. And the condescension in the original post makes me doubt a thoughtful discussion about orthopedic rehabilitation and the process Rondo has to go through before he fully regains form is the intention here.

TP to RR for calling a spade a spade, and to RJ87 for highlighting it.

LB33 starts so many threads, and hijacks so many others, with his incessant disparaging of Rondo that I wonder if he isn't some desperate Knicks employee trying to drive Rondo's value down, hoping that he could then be shipped to NY for Stoudamire and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Loving the double standards and mass excuses.  Some thought ROndo was coming back and going to look like a superstar.  He's been awful so far.  Bottom line... he's been terrible.  But it's only been 5 games.  I merely want to know how long we need to wait until we can fairly judge him.  Seems the new consensus is that we can throw out this season and wait until next year until evaluating Rondo.  Nice.  A couple homers on this forum expected him to be dominating by November 2013.  Looks like we're pushing it back a year.

  You were claiming it was a possible career-ending injury.  Those predictions don't look any more far-fetched than yours do.

What do you suppose is more likely, that LarBrd33 actually believes we should all be making doomsday proclamations about Rondo 5 games into his return, or that he knows he can gets TONS of attention by suggesting as much?

And this is basically what it comes down to.

[TwinTower14]

I decided before the season that I am giving Rondo a pass all season.  Let him get healthy, knock the rust off and hopefully DA can add some pieces in the offseason because this roster is awful....

[sed522002]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

[quote/]author: labrd33

Here we go again...

I like you as a user, but sometimes you really just try to kick Rondo down a notch... I don't get why you hate him so much.. He is coming off an ACL injury... Do you really want the Knicks to get him, or what?

Did Rondo by any chance score on one of your favorite player, and make you lose a bet on the off-chance Rondo wouldn't have a triple double on a certain game?

In under 30 minutes, Rondo almost scored a triple double. 13/8/8 isn't good enough?

I don't hate Rondo. I love Rondo.  I do feel like he is vastly overrated by a select few members on this forum though. 

The fact that you think Rondo's 13/8/8 last night was "good enough" illustrates this point wonderfully.  He shot 35% and had 6 turnovers in a loss.  It was a bad game.   

I don't expect the bad games to continue... I don't care that he's been horrible through 5 games. I just wanted to get an idea of how long we should expect to see dreadful performances out of Rondo.  Looks like the apologists are already willing to give Rondo a pass on this season.   

He's my favorite player on the team... but it's been an endless debate on this forum whether or not you can build a team around the likes of Rondo.  I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.  SOme are adamant he's a notch below LeBron.  Some are adamant that he can lead a team of scrubs to the playoffs.  It's not happening right now.  Is that rust?  His injury?  Do we just need to give him more time?  Or was th idea of Rondo being on the same level of CHris Paul, LeBron, Durant always just absurd?  This season was finally supposed to end the debate. Rondo no longer has hall-of-fame teammates and a coach tailoring a system for his skills and weaknesses.  I was told this was the season Rondo was going to prove the "haters" wrong, leap into superstardom and lead a team of mediocre players to glory.  I guess now that's postponed until next season?... At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

I actually feel Rondo is extremely underrated by Celtics fans. He has been called a diva and in this town that will destroy your good will. I honestly feel people yearn for Phil Pressey to take over the point full time. Pressey is everything Boston fans overrate and love. A guy who works his way into the rotation, an underdog, and unheralded. Once Rondo started receiving media attention a small part of the fan base I feel turned on him. He's an excellent point guard and I'll be thrilled when he leaves for nothing in 2015. Then maybe people will learn not to try and push out star players.

This is nothing new...they did the same thing to Pierce. They LOVE him NOW, but before KG and Ray came they were treating him the same way, calling him immature..etc. Winning a ring changes people's perceptions.

[wdleehi]

It used to take guys almost two seasons to get back up to full speed.


As long as we see Rondo physical gifts keep improving towards what he had before the injuries, I will be happy. 



And they really need to find some better weapons to put around Rondo to take advantage of some of his other gifts.  (the knowledge of where to hit the weapon and when)

[Enzzo]

A lot of people are giving LB33 heat for suggesting this. I think this is what these types of message boards are for.

Sure, you can't escape the fact that it is WAY WAY too early to even begin judging Rondos game. But he brings up some good questions as to whether Rondo is "leadership" material or even ready for that burden. Without the vets, can he help this team stay focused and determined??

These are great questions, but they were buried inbetween calling him terrible and shrugging off a near triple-double 5 games after a serious surgery.

Onto the question at hand, I believe all star break we should be seeing some serious improvement from him, but I wouldn't expect him to get back to his old self before next season. There's no rush for this season and it's pretty safe to assume they're going to walk a thin line with how hard they push him. The last thing we need is a D Rose situation. As far as him being "terrible" that's ridiculous, guy hasn't even been back for a month.

[Mr October]

It used to take guys almost two seasons to get back up to full speed.


As long as we see Rondo physical gifts keep improving towards what he had before the injuries, I will be happy. 



And they really need to find some better weapons to put around Rondo to take advantage of some of his other gifts.  (the knowledge of where to hit the weapon and when)

A couple good points here. It is going to take time to get the rust off, perhaps the rest of the season. And i too will be happy as long as i see improvement from month to month.

And lastly and most importantly rondo wont be 100% until he has a couple bigtime scorers on the team with him. His greatest skill is passing and creativity in finding teammates. He is not a one man wrecking crew like Lebron or durant.

[sed522002]

It used to take guys almost two seasons to get back up to full speed.


As long as we see Rondo physical gifts keep improving towards what he had before the injuries, I will be happy. 



And they really need to find some better weapons to put around Rondo to take advantage of some of his other gifts.  (the knowledge of where to hit the weapon and when)

A couple good points here. It is going to take time to get the rust off, perhaps the rest of the season. And i too will be happy as long as i see improvement from month to month.

And lastly and most importantly rondo wont be 100% until he has a couple bigtime scorers on the team with him. His greatest skill is passing and creativity in finding teammates. He is not a one man wrecking crew like Lebron or durant.

Oh man it was a couple of beautiful passes he made to KO and Green (and others) the last few games that were just totally mishandled. I really want to see more Vitor/Rondo. I haven't seen a lot of that.

[D.o.s.]

I said in another thread last week that I don't expect him to be 100% at all this season and that my grace period is sometime during the 2014-2015 season.

I'm not gonna set a drop dead date but I'd say a third to a halfway through next season mark.

That kind of time frame strikes me as symptomatic of giving up this season for lost, more than any kind of real thought on athletic recovery.

Why's that?  He experienced an ACL injury just about a year ago.  He plays basketball which is a game that takes a ridiculous toll on your lower body, especially from the PG position and just the nature of how he plays the game.

He just started playing meaningful game-speed NBA basketball in the past couple of weeks.  Given what I've seen from athletes over the years in basketball as well as other sports, I don't think 52 weeks is enough time for a full recovery.  Physically and certainly not mentally.  Even when the physical aspect is complete (which it may never be) there are still mental hurdles that take much longer to overcome.  Especially from an ACL injury and you play a sport like basketball which involves cutting and jumping all the time.  I really think 18-24 months is a better timeframe. 18 months would have him back to normal by the start of next season while 24 months would have him near the middle of next season.  Pretty much on point where I said a third to halfway into next season.

So, despite what you think, my thought and time frame is actually is very focused on athletic recovery.

It's not really about what I think, but more about how your original post read. That's all.

I think that he'll be playing at 95% of the level he'll be playing at a year and a half from now around the All Star Break. And I think that people are inclined to give him a wide window because they don't want to consider the fact that he's never going to be the player he was before the injury.

  The all-star break's a little over a year from the original injury, and just over a month from his return to action. Claiming that his play at that point in time means that he'll never be the same player isn't very realistic.

That's not really what I said, though. I don't know what kind of player he'll be, or if he'll reach/exceed/fail to achieve the kind of play that he was capable of before the injury.

My supposition is that the Rondo we get around February is going to be much closer to the Rondo we'll get for the rest of his career than some people would like to think.

  You basically said "that's not what I said" and then said it again. The all-star game is barely a year after the original injury and a month from his return to the court (with no training camp/preseason). Claiming he's likely to be very close to his fully recovered post-injury level at that point in time isn't at all realistic.

The second bolded part is right, but it's the first one misrepresented my point.

And if we don't agree on that, we don't agree. I think that, physically, we're going to see Rondo being Rondo, whatever form that takes, right around the all-star break. Unless he gets on the HGH/Steroids wagon.

[D.o.s.]

At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

When he is on his next contract as a Celtic.

There's a can here somewhere and a strong willingness to continue kicking it on down the road, apparently.

That's my feeling from some of these posts, too.

[Vox_Populi]

You were claiming it was a possible career-ending injury.  Those predictions don't look any more far-fetched than yours do.

What do you suppose is more likely, that LarBrd33 actually believes we should all be making doomsday proclamations about Rondo 5 games into his return, or that he knows he can gets TONS of attention by suggesting as much?

And this is basically what it comes down to.

Yup.

[BballTim]

I said in another thread last week that I don't expect him to be 100% at all this season and that my grace period is sometime during the 2014-2015 season.

I'm not gonna set a drop dead date but I'd say a third to a halfway through next season mark.

That kind of time frame strikes me as symptomatic of giving up this season for lost, more than any kind of real thought on athletic recovery.

Why's that?  He experienced an ACL injury just about a year ago.  He plays basketball which is a game that takes a ridiculous toll on your lower body, especially from the PG position and just the nature of how he plays the game.

He just started playing meaningful game-speed NBA basketball in the past couple of weeks.  Given what I've seen from athletes over the years in basketball as well as other sports, I don't think 52 weeks is enough time for a full recovery.  Physically and certainly not mentally.  Even when the physical aspect is complete (which it may never be) there are still mental hurdles that take much longer to overcome.  Especially from an ACL injury and you play a sport like basketball which involves cutting and jumping all the time.  I really think 18-24 months is a better timeframe. 18 months would have him back to normal by the start of next season while 24 months would have him near the middle of next season.  Pretty much on point where I said a third to halfway into next season.

So, despite what you think, my thought and time frame is actually is very focused on athletic recovery.

It's not really about what I think, but more about how your original post read. That's all.

I think that he'll be playing at 95% of the level he'll be playing at a year and a half from now around the All Star Break. And I think that people are inclined to give him a wide window because they don't want to consider the fact that he's never going to be the player he was before the injury.

  The all-star break's a little over a year from the original injury, and just over a month from his return to action. Claiming that his play at that point in time means that he'll never be the same player isn't very realistic.

That's not really what I said, though. I don't know what kind of player he'll be, or if he'll reach/exceed/fail to achieve the kind of play that he was capable of before the injury.

My supposition is that the Rondo we get around February is going to be much closer to the Rondo we'll get for the rest of his career than some people would like to think.

  You basically said "that's not what I said" and then said it again. The all-star game is barely a year after the original injury and a month from his return to the court (with no training camp/preseason). Claiming he's likely to be very close to his fully recovered post-injury level at that point in time isn't at all realistic.

The second bolded part is right, but it's the first one misrepresented my point.

And if we don't agree on that, we don't agree. I think that, physically, we're going to see Rondo being Rondo, whatever form that takes, right around the all-star break. Unless he gets on the HGH/Steroids wagon.

  It may have been poorly worded (it assumed he won't be playing great by the all-star break) but they say essentially the same thing. I guess we'll have to disagree on the rest, if Rondo's knee is close to full health by the all-star break that's great, if not then there's no real reason to assume he'll never show more than marginal improvements to his health. How long did it take KG to look like his knee was really healthy, 3 years or so? How about Chris Paul? Rose wasn't even on the court in the time frame you're talking about. Taking longer than the all-star break to show solid improvements in his game would be absolutely typical.

[D.o.s.]

Right. I also think that I'm diverging from the actual question a bit--I'm not sure when the rust will really shake off, as far as his very obviously knee protective decision making and his low on-court comfort level are concerned. I just don't believe that he'll be making significant athletic strides after February--or about a month and a half after his return to the court.

[BballTim]

Right. I also think that I'm diverging from the actual question a bit--I'm not sure when the rust will really shake off, as far as his very obviously knee protective decision making and his low on-court comfort level are concerned. I just don't believe that he'll be making significant athletic strides after February--or about a month and a half after his return to the court.

  Hopefully you're right, or hopefully you're wrong (depending on how he looks in a few weeks).