If you controlled 10 Trillion dollars

[BballTim]

For anyone who's interested in the idea of a basic income, there was a great article from Business Insider about it today:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/17/american_basic_income_an_end_to_poverty.html

(the slate link is where I saw it republished).

Do that and see what happens instantly to the price of a gallon of milk

That's the only issue that I can see arising where the solution isn't readily apparent--the same way our current VP helped promote a $10,000 raise in student aide to attend college, and the colleges responded by raising tuition.

Then again, I'm not an economist, and this is a thread about hypothetically controlling 10 trillion dollars...

So I'd buy all of the cows and keep milk prices low, too.

  You'd still have tons of kids living in poverty as their parents would use much of the money on drugs, gambling, alcohol, ipads and the like. Fewer kids in living in poverty no doubt, but still quite a few.

[Eja117]

For anyone who's interested in the idea of a basic income, there was a great article from Business Insider about it today:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/17/american_basic_income_an_end_to_poverty.html

(the slate link is where I saw it republished).

Do that and see what happens instantly to the price of a gallon of milk

What would happen to the price of a gallon of milk?  And why?

Giving out a truck load of cash causes inflation. If you force everyone above the poverty line market forces will raise the line. The government has no ability whatsoever at this point in time to stop borrowing money. No way on Earth a thing like this would be paid for. This is essentially trying to print money. You'll see inflation before it even goes into effect, and then we will have a larger government for nothing. There are no easy tricks to keep poor people from being poor. Not communism. Not printing money. Not this.  When you read things that say "Everyone would be above the poverty line"...well there you go. It's like MA Senator Warren trying to get us to believe that if McDs and other restaurants just raise their prices by 4 cents a meal they could pay all their employees $15/hr.....by raising prices .000001% you can raise wages 40%.  It would be nice, but in the real world....

I'm no economist, but you are going to have to explain the bolded part a little better to get me to believe that this is a fact.  Don't we already have some regulations on inflation?  You'd have to regulate how much businesses could raise their prices.  The way I see it, the government giving everybody a "citizen check" would in and of it self help businesses make more money.  There would be no need for prices to go up . . . other than pure greed, I guess. 

I have no problem with pure, unadulterated greed being regulated against.

As to McDonalds, of course they could afford to pay everyone $15/hr. and they wouldn't even have to raise the price of hamburgers.

Well if you have no problem with regulating against greed I hereby regulate that you have to sell your computer and tv and any bling you have and give the money to the poor. You don't need it as much as they do and your only real reason for having them and keeping them at the expense of others is pure greed.

In the most clear case if billions of dollars just started falling from the sky what do you think would happen to the price of a burger? Do you think everyone could just quit their jobs?

If McDs pays unskilled workers a wage much higher than minimum wage and they don't raise prices, where does the money come from? Profits? Well. If you want to become an owner of a very large amount of McDs stock then by all means you can choose to take less profit. But their investors don't invest in order to give other people high paying jobs. That isn't what companies are created for. If you want to regulate that away then you won't have new companies. Investors would sell off McDs and put their money somewhere else, and whoever acquired it would take the steps necessary to make it more profitable again (like laying off employees).

If people are getting money for nothing companies will have to pay more money to get people to work for them. That would raise prices. These things can't be changed.

[Celtics18]

For anyone who's interested in the idea of a basic income, there was a great article from Business Insider about it today:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/17/american_basic_income_an_end_to_poverty.html

(the slate link is where I saw it republished).

Do that and see what happens instantly to the price of a gallon of milk

What would happen to the price of a gallon of milk?  And why?

Giving out a truck load of cash causes inflation. If you force everyone above the poverty line market forces will raise the line. The government has no ability whatsoever at this point in time to stop borrowing money. No way on Earth a thing like this would be paid for. This is essentially trying to print money. You'll see inflation before it even goes into effect, and then we will have a larger government for nothing. There are no easy tricks to keep poor people from being poor. Not communism. Not printing money. Not this.  When you read things that say "Everyone would be above the poverty line"...well there you go. It's like MA Senator Warren trying to get us to believe that if McDs and other restaurants just raise their prices by 4 cents a meal they could pay all their employees $15/hr.....by raising prices .000001% you can raise wages 40%.  It would be nice, but in the real world....

I'm no economist, but you are going to have to explain the bolded part a little better to get me to believe that this is a fact.  Don't we already have some regulations on inflation?  You'd have to regulate how much businesses could raise their prices.  The way I see it, the government giving everybody a "citizen check" would in and of it self help businesses make more money.  There would be no need for prices to go up . . . other than pure greed, I guess. 

I have no problem with pure, unadulterated greed being regulated against.

As to McDonalds, of course they could afford to pay everyone $15/hr. and they wouldn't even have to raise the price of hamburgers.

Well if you have no problem with regulating against greed I hereby regulate that you have to sell your computer and tv and any bling you have and give the money to the poor. You don't need it as much as they do and your only real reason for having them and keeping them at the expense of others is pure greed.

In the most clear case if billions of dollars just started falling from the sky what do you think would happen to the price of a burger? Do you think everyone could just quit their jobs?

If McDs pays unskilled workers a wage much higher than minimum wage and they don't raise prices, where does the money come from? Profits? Well. If you want to become an owner of a very large amount of McDs stock then by all means you can choose to take less profit. But their investors don't invest in order to give other people high paying jobs. That isn't what companies are created for. If you want to regulate that away then you won't have new companies. Investors would sell off McDs and put their money somewhere else, and whoever acquired it would take the steps necessary to make it more profitable again (like laying off employees).

If people are getting money for nothing companies will have to pay more money to get people to work for them. That would raise prices. These things can't be changed.

The point is that the CEOs of McDonalds and the share holders wouldn't lose money if all employees made at least $15 per hour.  They would simply profit less.  A lot of people seem to equate less profit with losing money, but they are not the same thing. 

You are almost certainly right that these things won't be changed.  That doesn't mean that they couldn't be changed if enough people wanted them to change.

[Eja117]

For anyone who's interested in the idea of a basic income, there was a great article from Business Insider about it today:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/17/american_basic_income_an_end_to_poverty.html

(the slate link is where I saw it republished).

Do that and see what happens instantly to the price of a gallon of milk

What would happen to the price of a gallon of milk?  And why?

Giving out a truck load of cash causes inflation. If you force everyone above the poverty line market forces will raise the line. The government has no ability whatsoever at this point in time to stop borrowing money. No way on Earth a thing like this would be paid for. This is essentially trying to print money. You'll see inflation before it even goes into effect, and then we will have a larger government for nothing. There are no easy tricks to keep poor people from being poor. Not communism. Not printing money. Not this.  When you read things that say "Everyone would be above the poverty line"...well there you go. It's like MA Senator Warren trying to get us to believe that if McDs and other restaurants just raise their prices by 4 cents a meal they could pay all their employees $15/hr.....by raising prices .000001% you can raise wages 40%.  It would be nice, but in the real world....

I'm no economist, but you are going to have to explain the bolded part a little better to get me to believe that this is a fact.  Don't we already have some regulations on inflation?  You'd have to regulate how much businesses could raise their prices.  The way I see it, the government giving everybody a "citizen check" would in and of it self help businesses make more money.  There would be no need for prices to go up . . . other than pure greed, I guess. 

I have no problem with pure, unadulterated greed being regulated against.

As to McDonalds, of course they could afford to pay everyone $15/hr. and they wouldn't even have to raise the price of hamburgers.

Well if you have no problem with regulating against greed I hereby regulate that you have to sell your computer and tv and any bling you have and give the money to the poor. You don't need it as much as they do and your only real reason for having them and keeping them at the expense of others is pure greed.

In the most clear case if billions of dollars just started falling from the sky what do you think would happen to the price of a burger? Do you think everyone could just quit their jobs?

If McDs pays unskilled workers a wage much higher than minimum wage and they don't raise prices, where does the money come from? Profits? Well. If you want to become an owner of a very large amount of McDs stock then by all means you can choose to take less profit. But their investors don't invest in order to give other people high paying jobs. That isn't what companies are created for. If you want to regulate that away then you won't have new companies. Investors would sell off McDs and put their money somewhere else, and whoever acquired it would take the steps necessary to make it more profitable again (like laying off employees).

If people are getting money for nothing companies will have to pay more money to get people to work for them. That would raise prices. These things can't be changed.

The point is that the CEOs of McDonalds and the share holders wouldn't lose money if all employees made at least $15 per hour.  They would simply profit less.  A lot of people seem to equate less profit with losing money, but they are not the same thing. 

You are almost certainly right that these things won't be changed.  That doesn't mean that they couldn't be changed if enough people wanted them to change.

No. They couldn't be changed. If people wanted to get money for nothing and have inflation not happened it still wouldn't matter how many people wanted it. It would still happen.  People didn't want hyperinflation to happen in Germany when they printed a lot of money, but it still happened.

Again. If you start your own company for the purpose of giving people jobs and the purpose of not profiting much you can do that. You can be Newman's Own or something and that's fine. 

[Celtics18]

eja,

You seem to think that capitalism is some kind of inherent truth.  I don't think it is.  It's an economic system that could be changed if those that held the purse strings and the political power wanted to see it changed.  Of course there's little chance that they ever will. 

[Eja117]

eja,

You seem to think that capitalism is some kind of inherent truth.  I don't think it is.  It's an economic system that could be changed if those that held the purse strings and the political power wanted to see it changed.  Of course there's little chance that they ever will.

It's not exactly that I think capitalism is a truth. I don't believe in complete all out no controls capitalism. It's just that I think communism is a lie. Many years from now when historians discuss the most important people in history nobody will suggest Karl Marx. He'll just be a guy who had an idea that was completely and utterly wrong, and led to an excuse for maybe an 80 year experiment that collapsed.  Socialism so far is just junior varsity communism.

People want to be paid what they're worth. I definitely see that as an inherent truth, and I see the "worth" being what the market determines. I admit if we all wanted to we could all live like Bhuddist monks. But that won't happen.