The Heat will dominate for years no matter what Danny does

[BballTim]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

BTW... I get those rankings just by looking at statistical efficiency.  Just a simple calculation of points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers.  It's not rocket science.  Rondo gets a lot of much-deserved credit for leading the league in assists.  That seems to matter to a lot of you guys... so you shouldn't necessarily frown at looking at all stats combined.  Interestingly, Rondo was the 29th best player in the league this year.   Even more interesting... if you look at statistical efficiency per 48 minutes... Rondo was all the way behind CHris Paul, Steve Nash, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, Jeremy Lin, Kyle Lowry, Ty Lawson and Deron Williams (this is mostly because Rondo averaged more minutes than any of them).   Now... OF COURSE I do NOT believe that ALL of those point guards are better than Rondo...  But Chris Paul is. 

Rondo isn't going anywhere.  Crossing my fingers that he can make the leap from 29th best player in the league to 3rd best player in the league permanently.  If he could consistently do that (and not just against Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers)... maybe the Celtics will be fine long-term afterall.

Last note:  Not trying to crap on what Rondo did during these playoffs, because it was absolutely incredible (3rd most impressive stats these playoffs).  Just wanted to say that part of the reason his stats were so incredible (17, 12 and 6) was because he averaged 43 minutes per game.  If you even out the minutes (per 48), Rondo was actually the 12th best playoff performer.  KG was better than him.

  There are a lot of things that Rondo does arguably better than anyone else in the game that don't figure into your rankings (aside from defense). Things like running an offense, hitting players with the right pass at the right time in the right spot, dictating the pace of the game and making your teammates better. The Celts take more long 2 point shots (the least efficient shot in the game) than most teams yet they're above average in eFG% and TS%. Rondo's one of the main reasons for that.

  If you look at things like opposing PER allowed or opposing points per possession, you'll see that Rondo is clearly a better defender than KG. In fact, if you look at opposing ppp, you'll see that KG isn't among the top 100 defensive players in the league. Using a few stats like that to determine how much of an impact a player like KG has on his team's defense would severely underestimate his impact, but that's no different than your referring to Rondo as the 29th best player in the league based solely on a number derived from individual production.

[LarBrd33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

BTW... I get those rankings just by looking at statistical efficiency.  Just a simple calculation of points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers.  It's not rocket science.  Rondo gets a lot of much-deserved credit for leading the league in assists.  That seems to matter to a lot of you guys... so you shouldn't necessarily frown at looking at all stats combined.  Interestingly, Rondo was the 29th best player in the league this year.   Even more interesting... if you look at statistical efficiency per 48 minutes... Rondo was all the way behind CHris Paul, Steve Nash, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, Jeremy Lin, Kyle Lowry, Ty Lawson and Deron Williams (this is mostly because Rondo averaged more minutes than any of them).   Now... OF COURSE I do NOT believe that ALL of those point guards are better than Rondo...  But Chris Paul is. 

Rondo isn't going anywhere.  Crossing my fingers that he can make the leap from 29th best player in the league to 3rd best player in the league permanently.  If he could consistently do that (and not just against Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers)... maybe the Celtics will be fine long-term afterall.

Last note:  Not trying to crap on what Rondo did during these playoffs, because it was absolutely incredible (3rd most impressive stats these playoffs).  Just wanted to say that part of the reason his stats were so incredible (17, 12 and 6) was because he averaged 43 minutes per game.  If you even out the minutes (per 48), Rondo was actually the 12th best playoff performer.  KG was better than him.

  There are a lot of things that Rondo does arguably better than anyone else in the game that don't figure into your rankings (aside from defense). Things like running an offense, hitting players with the right pass at the right time in the right spot, dictating the pace of the game and making your teammates better. The Celts take more long 2 point shots (the least efficient shot in the game) than most teams yet they're above average in eFG% and TS%. Rondo's one of the main reasons for that.

  If you look at things like opposing PER allowed or opposing points per possession, you'll see that Rondo is clearly a better defender than KG. In fact, if you look at opposing ppp, you'll see that KG isn't among the top 100 defensive players in the league. Using a few stats like that to determine how much of an impact a player like KG has on his team's defense would severely underestimate his impact, but that's no different than your referring to Rondo as the 29th best player in the league based solely on a number derived from individual production.

Tim, my nemesis... I love you.  You tell me to ignore stats and watch what Rondo does.  Then you use stats to argue that Rondo is a better defender than Kevin Garnett (you don't actually believe that Rondo has a bigger impact on our defense than KG do you?)...  I love ya, brotha... you're consistent.

I respect your opinions.  I don't agree with them.  I think there are at least three players in this league who could run Boston's offensive as well (if not better) than Rajon Rondo.  And all three of them are better offensive players and more consistent scorers.  Chris Paul is one of them.

[BballTim]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

BTW... I get those rankings just by looking at statistical efficiency.  Just a simple calculation of points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers.  It's not rocket science.  Rondo gets a lot of much-deserved credit for leading the league in assists.  That seems to matter to a lot of you guys... so you shouldn't necessarily frown at looking at all stats combined.  Interestingly, Rondo was the 29th best player in the league this year.   Even more interesting... if you look at statistical efficiency per 48 minutes... Rondo was all the way behind CHris Paul, Steve Nash, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, Jeremy Lin, Kyle Lowry, Ty Lawson and Deron Williams (this is mostly because Rondo averaged more minutes than any of them).   Now... OF COURSE I do NOT believe that ALL of those point guards are better than Rondo...  But Chris Paul is. 

Rondo isn't going anywhere.  Crossing my fingers that he can make the leap from 29th best player in the league to 3rd best player in the league permanently.  If he could consistently do that (and not just against Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers)... maybe the Celtics will be fine long-term afterall.

Last note:  Not trying to crap on what Rondo did during these playoffs, because it was absolutely incredible (3rd most impressive stats these playoffs).  Just wanted to say that part of the reason his stats were so incredible (17, 12 and 6) was because he averaged 43 minutes per game.  If you even out the minutes (per 48), Rondo was actually the 12th best playoff performer.  KG was better than him.

  There are a lot of things that Rondo does arguably better than anyone else in the game that don't figure into your rankings (aside from defense). Things like running an offense, hitting players with the right pass at the right time in the right spot, dictating the pace of the game and making your teammates better. The Celts take more long 2 point shots (the least efficient shot in the game) than most teams yet they're above average in eFG% and TS%. Rondo's one of the main reasons for that.

  If you look at things like opposing PER allowed or opposing points per possession, you'll see that Rondo is clearly a better defender than KG. In fact, if you look at opposing ppp, you'll see that KG isn't among the top 100 defensive players in the league. Using a few stats like that to determine how much of an impact a player like KG has on his team's defense would severely underestimate his impact, but that's no different than your referring to Rondo as the 29th best player in the league based solely on a number derived from individual production.

Tim, my nemesis... I love you.  You tell me to ignore stats and watch what Rondo does.  Then you use stats to argue that Rondo is a better defender than Kevin Garnett (you don't actually believe that Rondo has a bigger impact on our defense than KG do you?)...  I love ya, brotha... you're consistent.

  My point was, stats have their place but they also have their limits. If I find a stat that measures defensive play that shows me that there are over 100 players in the league that are better defenders than KG then I'd consider it likely that the stat I was using isn't the best measure of a player's overall defensive contribution.

  Similarly, if you use a metric to measure how players compare to each other and that metric shows Jeremy Lin to be a better player than Rondo, maybe you should consider that you need a different way to evaluate players. Unless you think that Lin is a better point guard than Rondo, which is a possibility.

I respect your opinions.  I don't agree with them.  I think there are at least three players in this league who could run Boston's offensive as well (if not better) than Rajon Rondo.  And all three of them are better offensive players and more consistent scorers.  Chris Paul is one of them.

  I think that the offense would probably be a little better with Paul but it would be even more perimeter oriented than it is now. I don't think that we need more jump shooting, but then again I don't know what the team will look like next year. I would say that the other two players on your list are probably better scorers but can't run an offense as well as Rondo, so you'd have ended up with less production from players like KG and Ray and Bass but more production from your point guard. I also think that the scoring advantage from your  other point guards would be much less in the playoffs than the season.

[Celtics18]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

I'd like to add a point about Rondo's consistency.  Two things that have been very consistent throughout his short career is that he has been consistently improving and he has been consistently better in the playoffs than in the regular season.

I understand that one of the reasons that many are so reluctant--even after this recent playoff performance--to consider Rondo a true superstar is because he didn't come into the league with that superstar tag.  I also understand that it is very rare for a player to get drafted later in the draft without superstar expectations and transform himself into a superstar once he becomes an NBA player.   The only guys who I can think of off the top of my head who have done something similar are also point guards:  Steve Nash, Tony Parker, and the great John Stockton spring to mind.

This off-season the rest of the NBA world--the analysts, the coaches, the gms--will undoubtedly start to add Rondo to that conversation.  As I tried to illustrate (just by doing a quick google search), the public opinion on Rondo's status in the league is starting to change.

Who Knows?  He could fall off a cliff next season, and all of a sudden, stop being an NBA superstar.  Maybe this post-season (and the 2010 post-season and the 2009 post-season) was just a fluke.  The evidence suggests otherwise, though. 

The bar keeps getting raised for Rajon Rondo.  All he does is meet that bar and jump over it.  Think about it.  This off-season, we'll actually be talking about trading him for Dwight Howard.  Last off-season it was Chris Paul. 

His value will never be higher?  Again, I've been hearing that, as has he, since the 2007-2008 season.  Maybe eventually those of us who believed that there was something special about this kid since the beginning will stop being laughed off as green-eyed homers, and everyone else will start to see that Rajon Rondo is, in his own unique, inimitable way, an NBA superstar.

 

[thirstyboots18]

This premise is a little premature.  The Heat did not Dominate in the Regular season. They did not dominate the celtics...they won in 7.  The Heat has not won its first championship yet. They could, and they could dominate for years.  Or they could suffer the same injuries and maladies as  other teams...other teams are also improving...the Miami/Thunder finals series looks to be a very tough one.

First let them try to get their first championship before you  elevate them to the history books...so far premature annointment of the Heat has not worked in their favor.

[j804]

This premise is a little premature.  The Heat did not Dominate in the Regular season. They did not dominate the celtics...they won in 7.  The Heat has not won its first championship yet. They could, and they could dominate for years.  Or they could suffer the same injuries and maladies as  other teams...other teams are also improving...the Miami/Thunder finals series looks to be a very tough one.

First let them try to get their first championship before you  elevate them to the history books...so far premature annointment of the Heat has not worked in their favor.

Amen

[Bankshot]

Disagree with the OP.  What if we land Dwight Howard?

[Bankshot]

WE need to bring in a half legit center behind KG and another real bruising rebounding PF and this team will be veru intimidating next year.

KG / Hawes / Aaron Gray
Bass / Bruiser PF / JJJ
Pierce / Green / Jeff Taylor (21st)
Bradley / Ray / Pietrus
Rondo / Dragic / 22nd pick

Hawes - about $5-6 mil
Bruiser PF - about $3-4 mil
Dragic - about $3-5 mil

If KG and Ray want another run and a a legit shot at a title, they need to give some home town discounts.

KG's made about $100 mil so far in Boston, Ray's made about $60 to $70 mil...

How about KG at $10, Ray at $5 to $6.

You take that $15 mil in salary from KG and Ray and put it into Hawes, Gray, Bruiser PF and Dragic.

We raise #18 while our vets are mentoring the young guys.    

You're about the only one I've seen who hasn't predicted and wanted Stiemer back.

I'd like Steamsa back and I don't want Bass to be the starting PF.