The Heat will dominate for years no matter what Danny does

[LarBrd33]

Yes the Heat will be tough as long as LeBron is on that team.  Wade will get a bit older.  They have a solid 5 year window to be very very good.

Thunder have like a 10-12 year window to be great.  This will probably be the first of multiple Heat/Thunder Finals.  Strap in and enjoy as a basketball fan.

As a CEltic fan... get ready to be also-rans unless Danny lands another top 5 superstar (Dwight is the only one even remotely available).

  We don't have a top 5 superstar playing with Rondo now and we aren't also-rans.

... we aren't? 

[BballTim]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

[BballTim]

Yes the Heat will be tough as long as LeBron is on that team.  Wade will get a bit older.  They have a solid 5 year window to be very very good.

Thunder have like a 10-12 year window to be great.  This will probably be the first of multiple Heat/Thunder Finals.  Strap in and enjoy as a basketball fan.

As a CEltic fan... get ready to be also-rans unless Danny lands another top 5 superstar (Dwight is the only one even remotely available).

  We don't have a top 5 superstar playing with Rondo now and we aren't also-rans.

... we aren't?

  We were pretty much dead even with the Heat this year. Are they also-rans?

[LarBrd33]

Yes the Heat will be tough as long as LeBron is on that team.  Wade will get a bit older.  They have a solid 5 year window to be very very good.

Thunder have like a 10-12 year window to be great.  This will probably be the first of multiple Heat/Thunder Finals.  Strap in and enjoy as a basketball fan.

As a CEltic fan... get ready to be also-rans unless Danny lands another top 5 superstar (Dwight is the only one even remotely available).

  We don't have a top 5 superstar playing with Rondo now and we aren't also-rans.

... we aren't?

  We were pretty much dead even with the Heat this year. Are they also-rans?

Oh I'm sorry...  missed the part where we made the Finals.   

Again... even at his age, Kevin Garnett is a game-changer (when he plays like he did since February) ... That's the benefit of having one of the greatest players of all-time.  Even in their twilight years they can potentially bring it.  WIthout him, we wouldn't have gone far at all.  Our team definitely compliments each other well... but Kevin Garnett was arguably the best big man in the game during these playoffs.  That matters.  That matters a whole lot, actually.    I already admitted that if he comes back next year and plays on this level, we might be a threat again.  But fact is, he'll be 37 next year... and without a superstar replacement for Kevin Garnett, we're likely to be fodder for whatever team Dwight, LeBron and Durant play for.  The old guard is dying off (Shaq/KG/DIrk/Duncan/Kobe)... the new era begins.

[LarBrd33]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

CP3 is on that level.  Deron isn't.  Just my opinion.  Some think Rose is on that level too... I don't particularly agree.  I think he's one of the most overrated MVP's of all time.  

That said... all 3 of them are better than Rondo imo.

I'll tell you what, though, Tim.  If Rondo can play the way he did during these playoffs during the regular season... meaning actually being a mediocre shooter (as opposed to terrible)... average 17, 12 and 6... Then you have yourself a case that he's a franchise player.  He was a very impressive 47% shooting, 25% from three and 70% from the line.  If he can keep that up... you might be able to build a franchise around him. 

[Celtics18]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

CP3 is on that level.  Deron isn't.  Just my opinion. 

That is, indeed, most likely just your opinion. 

[LarBrd33]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

CP3 is on that level.  Deron isn't.  Just my opinion.  

That is, indeed, most likely just your opinion.  

It's a popular opinion outside of Boston.  Most basketball analysts and executives (including our own Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers) seem to acknowledge that Chris Paul is the greatest point guard alive... a player without any flaws.  Not a popular opinion on a Boston Celtic basketball forum with a bunch of Boston Celtic basketball fans... 

But even our own coach and GM said that Rondo should have felt "honored" that his name was even coming up in trade discussions for the likes of Chris Paul.  Is what it is.

Anyhow.  That's neither here nor there... I'll hope for the best.  But I agree with teh premise of this thread.  

[Celtics18]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

CP3 is on that level.  Deron isn't.  Just my opinion.  

That is, indeed, most likely just your opinion.  

It's a popular opinion outside of Boston.  Most basketball analysts and executives (including our own Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers) seem to acknowledge that Chris Paul is the greatest point guard alive... a player without any flaws.  Not a popular opinion on a Boston Celtic basketball forum with a bunch of Boston Celtic basketball fans... 

But even our own coach and GM said that Rondo should have felt "honored" that his name was even coming up in trade discussions for the likes of Chris Paul.  Is what it is.

Anyhow.  That's neither here nor there... I'll hope for the best.  But I agree with teh premise of this thread.  

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/03/05/point-guards-gone-wild/

O.K., so this article is from March where Rondo was a close third behind Paul.  I'm guessing a national poll like this taken today would end up having Rondo in the lead.

Absolutely, Rondo should have felt honored last off-season to be in trade discussions for the likes of Chris Paul, not so much this off-season. 

[BballTim]

Yes the Heat will be tough as long as LeBron is on that team.  Wade will get a bit older.  They have a solid 5 year window to be very very good.

Thunder have like a 10-12 year window to be great.  This will probably be the first of multiple Heat/Thunder Finals.  Strap in and enjoy as a basketball fan.

As a CEltic fan... get ready to be also-rans unless Danny lands another top 5 superstar (Dwight is the only one even remotely available).

  We don't have a top 5 superstar playing with Rondo now and we aren't also-rans.

... we aren't?

  We were pretty much dead even with the Heat this year. Are they also-rans?

Oh I'm sorry...  missed the part where we made the Finals. 

  I'm guessing that, with the multitude of posts you made about the Heat destroying the Celts in the playoffs, you convinced yourself that it actually happened.  

Again... even at his age, Kevin Garnett is a game-changer (when he plays like he did since February) ... That's the benefit of having one of the greatest players of all-time.  Even in their twilight years they can potentially bring it.  WIthout him, we wouldn't have gone far at all.  Our team definitely compliments each other well... but Kevin Garnett was arguably the best big man in the game during these playoffs.  That matters.  That matters a whole lot, actually.    I already admitted that if he comes back next year and plays on this level, we might be a threat again.  But fact is, he'll be 37 next year... and without a superstar replacement for Kevin Garnett, we're likely to be fodder for whatever team Dwight, LeBron and Durant play for.  The old guard is dying off (Shaq/KG/DIrk/Duncan/Kobe)... the new era begins.

  KG played great in the playoffs but he was still a complementary player on offense most of the time. He wasn't really dominant in 2010 when we went to game 7 of the finals either.

[Celtics18]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

[action781]

FYI to anyone who read this... save me the "Rondo IS a superstar" rebuttal.  I admire your optimism, but it's not true.  He's an exception point guard and easily one of the best point guards in this league... but if we're comparing LeBron or Durant to Rondo, it's a no-contest.

  Players like CP3 or Deron don't compare to players like Durant or LeBron either, but you have no trouble calling them "superstars".

CP3 is on that level.  Deron isn't.  Just my opinion.  Some think Rose is on that level too... I don't particularly agree.  I think he's one of the most overrated MVP's of all time.  

CP3 is definitely a superstar.

[ACF]

THUNDER UP!

[LarBrd33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

[LarBrd33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY.   That said, if we're looking at the regular season, statistically (even given how amazingly awesome Rondo played), CHris Paul was the 5th best player in the league... and Rondo was 29th.  In fact, if we're just looking at statistics (points + rebounds + steals + assists ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), a case can easily be made that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose (when he played) and Deron Williams all were better than Rondo.

BTW... I get those rankings just by looking at statistical efficiency.  Just a simple calculation of points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers.  It's not rocket science.  Rondo gets a lot of much-deserved credit for leading the league in assists.  That seems to matter to a lot of you guys... so you shouldn't necessarily frown at looking at all stats combined.  Interestingly, Rondo was the 29th best player in the league this year.   Even more interesting... if you look at statistical efficiency per 48 minutes... Rondo was all the way behind CHris Paul, Steve Nash, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, Jeremy Lin, Kyle Lowry, Ty Lawson and Deron Williams (this is mostly because Rondo averaged more minutes than any of them).   Now... OF COURSE I do NOT believe that ALL of those point guards are better than Rondo...  But Chris Paul is. 

Rondo isn't going anywhere.  Crossing my fingers that he can make the leap from 29th best player in the league to 3rd best player in the league permanently.  If he could consistently do that (and not just against Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers)... maybe the Celtics will be fine long-term afterall.

Last note:  Not trying to crap on what Rondo did during these playoffs, because it was absolutely incredible (3rd most impressive stats these playoffs).  Just wanted to say that part of the reason his stats were so incredible (17, 12 and 6) was because he averaged 43 minutes per game.  If you even out the minutes (per 48), Rondo was actually the 12th best playoff performer (only counting players who actually played at least 28 minutes per game).  KG was ahead of him.  Note #2:  Bron and Durant were still the top 2 per 48... want to know who the third was?... Tim Duncan.   Well there you have it... Superstars make you a contender.

[BballTim]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1212178-rajon-rondo-can-boston-celtics-build-a-future-around-star-point-guard

Here's another article.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/02/SPAF1OS1A6.DTL&ao=all

And some more.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1207701-why-rajon-rondo-is-the-most-valuable-player-in-the-2012-playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187212-numbers-dont-lie-rajon-rondo-outperforming-chris-paul-in-2012-nba-playoffs

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1061134882

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/04/magic-johnson-and-jon-barry-state-rajon.html

I guess you are right, though, LB33, it's probably just me and a couple of other green goggles wearing Rondo fans who think that Rondo is a superstar in this league.

I agree with you on some level.  Rondo had an excellent playoff.  He put up outstanding numbers.  But most of those articles are comparing Rondo's playoff run vs Chris Paul's playoff run.... not Rondo vs Chris Paul.  It's possible to poke holes in that argument just by bringing up the fact that Paul was being guarded by Tony Allen in round 1 and going head-to-head with Tony Parker in round 2... while Rondo faced the likes of Jeff Teague and Mario Chalmers.  I can't overreact to 11 subpar games from Chris Paul and I certainly can't overreact to Rondo's playoff run this offseason.   I'd love for Rondo to continue to average 17, 12 and 6 while knocking down some jump shots... but it's unlikely and ultimately we don't know whether Rondo will ever be consistent. 

Within the next three years, we'll know the answer to these questions.  Right now at gun point I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo without blinking.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Probably not, though.

  If you look at their stats since 08-09 in the playoffs, CP3 averages 18.6/5.4/9.5, Rondo averages 16.2/6.8/10.2. It's not just a 1 year thing.

FYI:  If we were to look at just these playoffs (rondo going up against Atlanta, Philly and Miami)... Statistically Rondo was the 3rd best player in the league behind LeBron (#1 so far) and Durant (#2).    Chris Paul was all the way down at #14.  Now, in Paul's defense, he DID suffer a right hip flexor and finger injuries
in Game 5 of the first round.   Still, you'll get no argument from anyone that Chris Paul had a "better" playoff than Rondo.  Clearly Rondo was phenomenal.  CLEARLY. 

  In Rondo's defense, he went into the playoffs with a back injury, and the three teams he faced were all better defensively than either team that CP3 faced.