Your Endless Negativity Swayed Me

[Spicoli]

I thought Perk was a bit overrated when he was here, and i think Perk is overrated now that he's gone. The only reason why we all miss Perk is because Shaq is done. If Shaq was playing, Perk would be an afterthought. Sure, Perk sets good screens for Ray, but so did Shaq early in the season. Sure, Perk can take hard fouls and knock people on their butts, but so did Shaq early on the season. Sure, Perk can guard the post, but so was Shaq early in the season.

The only thing Perk routinely does better than Shaq is come out and show on pick and rolls. That's it. That's literally all i can think of, that Perk does better. If Shaq was playing, none of us would even be having this conversation about Perk.

The trade is brought up now because without Perk OR Shaq, it looks like a horrible deal. Just...horrible. This trade would have only made sense if the Diesel was able to play. Ainge miscalculated the severity of his injury, big time.

[slamtheking]

TP to the OP for a well written and well-argued post.  the points made are very valid.

on behalf of those posting negative comments about the trade, allow me to state "mission accomplished"

In all honesty, I still think this team has the talent to win it all -- provided they're healthy AND come to play every game.  Right now, the health part is iffy with Shaq and JO could suffer a set back at any time.  Also, this is NOT the same team that 'flipped the switch' last year in the playoffs nor is it the same team that had its heart ripped out in game 7 (only 5 guys from that team are left-->think about that for a second--->2/3's of a championship contender are gone in less than 1 year.)

[barefacedmonk]

"[Shaq's] been making progress and we tried to get him out there to practice today, to simulate a game as much as we could and he's not ready," Ainge said. "We don't know when he'll be ready, and we'll just keep evaluating him day to day. So he won't play in tomorrow's game."

LOL. Ainge is really looking like a genius now. Did we get an arrest warrant for that "highway robbery" yet?

[rtifishul]

I actually liked the trade when it happened.  I thought Perk was overrated.  A big body who plays defense and gets some rebounds.  I loved Jeff Green.  I thought the kid was a stud who was just stuck playing out of position in OKC.  I made giant leaps of logic, claimed he was a future "fringe all-star" and compared his talent level to someone like Danny Granger... saying that had Granger been stuck playing Power Forward full time next to Durant, he would have put up numbers equal to Jeff Green.  I figured we lost very little... and gained a lot for our present and future.  I pointed out that Perk only played 12 games this year and that we were probably a better team with Shaq.  I said that removing Perk solidified Jermaine O'Neal's role... and that now he was going to fully buy into being a Celtic either as a starter or our 6th man.  I was so delusional this year that I actually posted in a thread that I had finally gained respect for Glen Davis.

But an endless stream of negativity from this forum finally swayed me.  I'm here to admit I was wrong.  You're right guys.  Sorry.  I'm was being an idiot homer and looking at things through green-tinted glasses.  Kudos to those of you who argued with me.  You win.  Pat yourselves on the back!

My biggest mistakes:

#1 Shaq -  This entire time I was under the impression that Danny Ainge wasn't a total moron.  The idea that he'd put this team's title hopes on a 39 year old fatty who has a history of missing games was so absurd that I assumed (incorrectly) that Ainge knew something I didn't.  In other words, I thought that Shaq was healthy.  I legitimately thought that the Celtics planned all along that Shaq was going to take most of the regular season off.  I figured it was written in his contract... he's a legend, the regular season essentially is irrelevant and he's a weapon to be saved for the playoffs anyways. If Shaq wanted to take a couple months to film a TV show or something, that was fine.  This entire time I seriously thought that the Celtics had him on some kind of weight-loss and leg-strengthening regimen and that his "injury" was a joke.  I figured we would unleash a "rejuvenated" Shaq on the NBA in the playoffs and destroy the league.  I figured Ainge/Doc saw how well we were playing with Shaq at the start of the season and decided, "you know what... we got this.  Our only real weakness is a backup for Pierce.  Shaq should be starting for us... we are better off with him than Perk... let's save shaq for the playoffs and strengthen our only weakness"....   In other words, I was an idiot.  You guys are right.  Danny Ainge absolutely should be fired at season's end.  It's completely totally moronic... we win the 2010 title with a good big man... so Ainge makes a trade where we end up relying on a 39 year old BROKEN fatty.  I doubt we even see Shaq in the playoffs.  He looks like he can barely walk.  I was stupid to have faith in Celtics management.  It was borderline criminal relying on this fat former Laker.  The basketball gods will have our heads for it. 
  
#2 - Perk ...  I underestimated his value.  I forgot a couple key things.  First, I read a quote from Cliff Ray where he said the best defensive player on the Celtics was Perkins.  You'd figure he'd say KG, but he actually reiterated that Perk was the most important guy out there.  Second, I forgot the numerous quotes from people throughout the league that said that Boston set the best picks out of any team in the league.   Our offense has gone in the tank since Perk left.  Ray can't get open.  Perk is a monster at setting screens and with him (and Shaq) gone, Ray always has two guys on him, Rondo can't get any assists and we have to rely on Rondo bricking a wide-open jumper, driving to the lane and bricking free throws... or tossing it to Glen Davis so he can brick a shot... You guys were right.  I was wrong.  I'm an idiot.  Our 4 all-stars should retroactively be stripped of their "all-star" designations.  Hall-of-Famers or not... they are nothing without Perk.  Playoff fodder for the Knicks (who have no center) or the Heat (who have no center).  That's saying something.    

#3 - Our System/Chemistry -  I said countless times that I wasn't concerned about our end-of-season losses.  It's easy for OKC to fit in Perk.  They just needed a big body.  However, I explained that the Celtics system was intricate and notoriously hard to pick up for newcomers... and that by bringing in 5 new players, we were inevitable heading for a month-long slump while we had what amounted to pre-season.  "You can't expect these guys to play like Celtics the second they get here", I said... With our limited practice time (where the starters weren't even participating), I said that come playoff time we'd be ready.  

Somehow while saying all these things, I was glossing over the first thing I said:  THE CELTICS SYSTEM IS INTRICATE AND NOTORIOUSLY HARD TO PICK UP FOR NEWCOMERS.   Sam Cassell never got it.  Nate RObinson never got it.  I AM AN IDIOT for assuming that these 5 players would get it. You guys were right.  I was wrong.   They look lost out there.  We ran out of time.    

Also, I underestimated how much that trade killed ubuntu and our chemistry.  The Celtics should be angry about choking away game 7 against the Lakers.  That was a winnable game.  Every player/coach on the team should be driven with the goal to get back to the finals and destroy whoever stands in front of them.  Forget the regular season, I figured... these boys have a chip on their shoulders.  Once playoff time comes... look out.  These boys are looking for blood! ....   Unfortunately, I'm an idiot. "These boys" don't exist.  Somehow I neglected to realize that the entire team is different.  Tony, Sheed, Perk, Nate, Quis, Finley, Shelden and Scal are gone.  In replace of them we will expect minutes from JO, Green, Delonte, Krstic and maybe Shaq, Murphy, Arroyo, Sasha, Wafer and Bradley...  Even our mastermind coach is gone (leading the Bulls to the NBA's best record).   The team that got humiliated by the Lakers doesn't exist any more.  This Celtics team has no more of a "chip" on it's shoulder than the Heat do with LeBron (who got humiliated by the Celtics last year).   You guys win.  


#4 - Jeff Green -  Wow.  Shows flashes, but bricks half his shots.  Looks completely uncomfortable.  Looks lost on defense.  Shows no aggression.  I expected "Rondo-To-Green" to be a common sight, but Jeff Shows none of the explosive high-flying finishing I thought he had.  I thought he'd be a defensive stopper for the Brons/Kobes... but I'm not seeing that out of him at all.  He's put up some stats and I figure he'll be part of our core next year when KG and Ray retire and the Celtics are lottery-bound... but I have to admit that you guys were right once again.  Jeff Green is a 7th man on this team.  We traded a starting center for a nobody.  His only value at this point is basically "Paul Pierce insurance"... and if we ever need to use "Paul Pierce" insurance, we're toast anyways.  I clearly don't know enough about the NBA outside of Boston.  I was dead wrong on this kid.  You guys swayed me.

#5 -  Obese (Glen Davis) - He's a fat loser.  How the heck does this guy continue to get fatter while playing for a championship caliber team?  I saw him shirtless in the latest episode of "The Assocation" standing next to a shirtless Ray Allen and it's a freakin embarrassment.  Too many pancakes, not enough focus.  He did look pretty good early on in the season as a backup, but I guess my mind was clouded by all the Shaq-fueled early-season dominance.  Reiterating what I've said about "Obese" for years... he is only as good as his teammates.  Not a great defender.  Pretty poor rebounder.  Poor finisher.  Hits some wide open shots.   It's not all Glen's fault.  Team's have found a way to exploit the Celtics by making them "live and die" with Glen Davis jumpers.  When he makes them, he's a hero.  When he doesn't, he looks like the bench-warming role player he's destined to become.  No need to beat a dead horse here.  I'm back on the bandwagon... Glen Davis is a bum



Bottom line:  Thanks for setting me straight.  TP's for all of you who were on board with Celtic Pride dying weeks before I was.  I look forward to our lively debates in the offseason where we will argue over who should replace Ainge/Rivers and who will fill the void left by KG and Ray.    See you all on May 1st, I guess.  Knicks in Six.

Well played, sir. Well played. I almost bought it.

[fairweatherfan]

WALL OF AWESOME

Just wanted to check in to say:



Absolutely brilliant, as are the followup posts.  Funny to see how many people bought it, too.  Sort of a CB equivalent to Poe's Law.  Well done sir.

[vinnie]

Whether the op was serious or not, no Shaq means double-talk Danny blew it. And, whether the op was serious or not, his post is right on the money. Can't wait to see that fearsome center tandem of JO and Krstic in action.  I also like the revisionist history we are seeing -- that it really doesn't matter if they have Shaq. Please. 

[csfansince60s]

Can't wait to see that fearsome center tandem of JO and Krstic in action. 

A healthy JO and a healthy Kristic are better collectively than a healthy Perkins. A healthy JO is a better shotblocker than Perkins and almost as good a rebounder and a FAR superior offensive player. Kristic is a decent 2nd 5 and an excellent 3rd 5.

Obviously, the key word in the above paragraph is "healthy", but both JO and Perk are coming off of surgery. If both stay healthy it will be obvious that Ainge did the right thing because JO brings more to the table than Perk.

,

[thebat]

I am glad you are clearly writing these and clearly seeing everything.

I do not know why the rest can't see these facts.

Perkins is not about stats. We have lost the beast in the middle! The worst thing was, our other 4 best players now refuses to fight, not without Perk! It's as simple as that!

+++++

Perkins was essentially the MVP our team.  The best defensive center in the league.  An true starting a center. 

No way man. Just....no. Dwight Howard is the best defensive center in the league, and it's not even close. Perk routinely gets owned when he goes up against Bogut, Lopez, and any other center who can move their feet a little bit. Perk's value is against guys like Bynum, Shaq, and other guys who are big, but who are just as slow as he is.

It took me a while to realize it, but a month worth of posts on this forum got me to see the light on this.  I severely underrated Perk.  I kept thinking of him as a 5th wheel with career averages of 6 points and 6 rebounds.  Somehow by following every game of his career and seeing how mediocre he was pre-big 3 (I use to call him a poor man's Adonal Foyle), I assumed he was being overrated by casual fans in the same manner that Luc Longley is a household name simply for sharing a court with Jordan in the 90s.  Now, don't get me wrong... I LOVED the beast.  I just didn't think much of him. I was one of the first people to point out on this forum his trend in limiting Dwight Howard.  I knew combined with KG he was a key cog in our intricate defense.  I knew he brought that intimidation factor.  That scowl.  Those angry Persian-esque eyes that threatened to blot out the sun.  But I underrated him nonetheless.  I underrated the defense.  I underrated the scowl. 

Thankfully, ESPN and CelticsBlog set me straight.  Perkins is a legit starting center.  Our pseudo-stars are nothing without him.  Without the beast in the middle, teams look like they are running layup drills against us.  Without the beast setting picks, Ray can't get open... the floor isn't properly stretched, Rondo can't get assists and the offense goes in the crapper.   Nobody is scowling.  Nobody is knocking down people who come into the lane.  We have nobody to protect the rim or play tough defense on Ronny Turiaf and Zydrunas Ilgauskas.   Some might say that the Thunder's success has more to do with Kevin Durant and the fact that Ibaka is shining in the PF spot, but it's clearly because they just shafted Ainge out of a gem.  Everything the experts expected has already happened.  The Thunder are contenders and the Celtics are an afterthought.  I kept wanting to wait until the playoffs to come to this conclusion, but the pros convinced me how simple-minded and pointless that would be.   It's over.  We're toast.  The self-proclaimed captain of our defense is gone and we already failed at regrouping without him.

I thought Shaq could provide some of what Perk brought.  I thought there was a "plan" revolving around unleashing a healthy Shaq in the playoffs.  Since that's not happening... this is a disaster of epic proportions.  Shoulda signed Eddy Curry when we had a chance. 

[csfansince60s]

W Can't wait to see that fearsome center tandem of JO and Krstic in action.   Please. 

You just saw it. What'd you think?

[thebat]

time to revisit this.