Is it just me or are the Bulls destroying people?

[Fafnir]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

The thing about the Bulls that separates them from the Cavs, IMO, is that their superstar buys into the coach's system. LBJ was always trying to run things in Cleveland - but D.Rose and Thibs are clearly on the same page, and Rose seems to have a lot of respect for him and vice versa. You can't really say that about LBJ and Mike Brown.

Thibs has done a great job in Chicago. But so far he has not done anything Mike Bronw didn't do with LeBron. Time and the playoffs will tell how well he coaches in a pressure series.

[Chris]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

Even if you rate Boozer/Jamison as equal defensively (I don't Jamison is worse) then Boozer is a much better player.

They post very similar numbers offensively, but Boozer has a 17.1 rebound rate compared to 14.1 for Jamison. That’s a huge difference, add in the fact that I value a low post scorer higher than a three point shooter/slasher that Jamison was at that point and I rate Boozer much higher.

Noah and AV are basically the same offensively, but again Noah is the superior rebounder and defender. He also can give you a lot more minutes. AV topped out at 28 MPG where Noah can give you 34 mpg

More minutes, more rebounds add up to a big difference.

The Cavs were overrated as a defensive team because they relied on Shaq/Jamison/Williams to play too many minutes. All three were liabilities that could be attacked, especially in the playoffs when you have time to really destroy a team based on one match up.

I agree that Boozer is the superior player overall (mostly due to his rebounding, and overall toughness).  Have to agree to disagree on Noah/AV though.  More minutes does not mean a better player, and I think they are very comparable.  The Cavs just had more depth up front with Shaq/Z/Hickson/Jamison, that kept AV off the floor more than it probably should have.  

As for the Cavs being overrated defensively, I just don't see it.  Yes, they had some weak defenders, just like the Bulls do (Rose, Boozer, Korver, and Kurt Thomas is not what he once was), but the overall defense was excellent.  

The Cavs problem was that they did not have the balance offensively to be able to punish a team like the C's, who would take away Lebron's penetration, and force him into an off-balance jump shooter.  

The Bulls run a similar type of iso offense, which the C's system (and Bulls system) is designed to be effective against.  

Of course it will all come down to execution for the C's.  But, if they execute their system as well as they have in the past, then they are in position to beat the Bulls, just like they beat the Cavs.  

[Chris]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

The thing about the Bulls that separates them from the Cavs, IMO, is that their superstar buys into the coach's system. LBJ was always trying to run things in Cleveland - but D.Rose and Thibs are clearly on the same page, and Rose seems to have a lot of respect for him and vice versa. You can't really say that about LBJ and Mike Brown.

Thibs has done a great job in Chicago. But so far he has not done anything Mike Bronw didn't do with LeBron. Time and the playoffs will tell how well he coaches in a pressure series.

Yeah, Lebron seemed like he was buying into the system just fine over the last couple of regular seasons.  The question is really going to come down to how these guys react to adversity (and that includes the coach), when they face a team that has the players and the scheme to take away what they do best, and they have to find a way to counter it. 

[Fafnir]

I think more minutes adds to his value as a player. AV topped out at a lesser number of minutes than Noah does. So not only is Noah a better player when he's on the court, he can be on the court more than AV can.

The Bulls have solid depth down low: Boozer, Thomas, Asik, Gibson all share time with Noah.

[diehard celtic]

I posted a similar thread a while ago.. I dunno, the one thing that scares me about them is their coach, and I don't know why it doesn't get talked about more.  He knows our strengths and weaknesses as well as anyone.  Other than that, the only advantage they have matchup-wise is at the 5.  Bench and all other positions we're better or a wash.

And just because a team "destroys" others means very little.  How often do the celtics "destroy" teams, even in their championship year?  in fact every time they're up by 20 it's almost a given that lead will be single digits before it's over.  But they win games, period.  Lets see the bulls do it in the postseason.

Doc also knows what Frank likes to run and how he runs a defense. There is a reason why Thibs was under Doc. Doc can out coach him.

[Prof. Clutch]

I think it's a combination of them playing really well and the fact that there are so many bad/easy to beat teams in the league.

[BC1996]

I don't think it's reasonable to even compare the Bulls to last years Cavs.  Although I believe a healthy Celtics team will beat the Bulls in a 7 game series, the Bulls wont be lacking the mental toughness that plagued the Cavs.  First of all, lets just compare LeBron and Rose based on their fire and competitiveness.  Everything I have seen from D-Rose throughout his young career indicates that he will lay EVERYTHING on the floor, and that the mental grind of dealing with the Celtics for 7 games isn’t going to stop him from fighting every step of the way.  Secondly, I really don’t believe a Tom Thibodeau coached team is going to have any collective mental letdowns.  What concerns me about playing Chicago is the fact that I don’t think they care about playing a 7 game grinder against us. 

The biggest edge the Celtics have possessed is their ability to wear down opponents over the course of a long playoff series.  There is no doubt we have been the most mentally tough team in the league over the past few years.  The Lakers were the only team who could handle the mental grind, mostly because of their veteran experience, as well as the swagger and confidence that resonates from Kobe.  Orlando and Cleveland clearly looked worn down against us, and I would expect the same from any other Eastern Conference team, with the exception of Chicago.

I don’t want to start an argument about the Perkins trade again, but the intimidation and mental toughness is what I worried about most when we traded him.  I don’t think anyone can disagree that playing us in the playoffs has been a giant pain in the ass for opposing teams.  If Shaq can perform in the playoffs then I believe we can maintain the ability to wear down opponents.  Not only that, but a deeper bench will give us the first opportunity in the past few years to have a fresh Pierce and Ray throughout the post-season. 

There is no doubt that a rested frontline will be extremely beneficial, especially when it comes to Pierce’s ability to put the team on his shoulders in the most clutch moments of the season.  I also don’t think we will see the same slumps from Ray.  However, this puts the fate of our season very much on our ability to maintain our mental edge over the rest of the league.  That has always been our trump card.  I could walk into every playoff series knowing that we had the ability to grind away at teams until they lost their resiliency.

With that said, I see the Bulls being the most difficult team to do this to in the Eastern Conference.  As for the West, it wont happen to the Lakers or Spurs either.