Is it just me or are the Bulls destroying people?

[Steve Weinman]

Their link is SG and that there are two other teams that are more talnted and more experienced them them in the east.

They remind me of last years regular season Cavs. Destroying people and getting the spotlight in the regular season. We'll see how they do in the playoffs.

The really don't remind me of the Cavs at all because everyone was basically a Lebron Sidekick on the Cavs. The Bulls look like a team.

Wishful thinking reminds me that winning the east guarantees nothing, like we saw with the Cavs, but comparing these two teams seems superficial to me.

They are more a TEAM, but they are just as lost as the cavs are when Rose goes to the bench.

This simply is not accurate. 

While there are no doubt a variety of more involved ways to prove as much, we can achieve the quick-and-dirty outline simply by looking at on/off court data made publicly available at 82games:

When Rose is on the floor, the Bulls' play at an efficiency differential of plus-7.3 points per 100 possessions.  With Rose off the floor, they play at plus-6.7 points per 100 possessions.

The 2009-10 Cavs played at plus-11.1 with LeBron on the floor and minus-4.6 with him off the floor.

Again, there is plenty of noise in raw plus-minus-type statistics (yes, the Bulls' bench unit often sees different members of the opposition than Rose does; no, this does not mean the Bulls would be just as good if their bench unit played 48 minutes per game and they sat Rose), but it remains evident that the Bulls' supporting cast is doing more than holding its own in the opportunities it receives.

-sw

[CelticG1]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

[Chris]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

[Fafnir]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

[Chris]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

[Fafnir]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did. Which makes a lot of sense. Rose is basically playing like mini-LeBron at the PG position.

[SHAQATTACK]

FAr as I can tell...So goes ROSE so goes the Bulls.  They have a ton of good talent but really only ROSE can provide the on court leadership (MR Everything), but like Bryant/LA but worse ......if Rose is hurt or off , they are lost and can't win those close games and fall apart.
Personally , I think the way to beat the BULLS is to get ROSE into foul trouble ASAP, with relentless get under his skin pressure from WEST/RHONDO.. Limit his minutes. When the chips are down...  Against good teams the Bull fall on their face when Rose isnt on the floor.

COach TIP is excellent , lives breaths b-ball 24-7. There within lies a big advantage ...they have him every game.

GO SHAQ !!!

[Chris]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

[MBunge]

I don't want to take anything away from the Bulls, but it's clear that teams do not get "up" to play Chicago this year.  That's leading to teams getting run out of the gym because Thibs has got those guys playing hard from the get go.

Mike

[Fafnir]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

Even if you rate Boozer/Jamison as equal defensively (I don't Jamison is worse) then Boozer is a much better player.

They post very similar numbers offensively, but Boozer has a 17.1 rebound rate compared to 14.1 for Jamison. That’s a huge difference, add in the fact that I value a low post scorer higher than a three point shooter/slasher that Jamison was at that point and I rate Boozer much higher.

Noah and AV are basically the same offensively, but again Noah is the superior rebounder and defender. He also can give you a lot more minutes. AV topped out at 28 MPG where Noah can give you 34 mpg

More minutes, more rebounds add up to a big difference.

The Cavs were overrated as a defensive team because they relied on Shaq/Jamison/Williams to play too many minutes. All three were liabilities that could be attacked, especially in the playoffs when you have time to really destroy a team based on one match up.

[footey]

yeah they remind me of us circa 2008.

[CelticG1]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

Even if you rate Boozer/Jamison as equal defensively (I don't Jamison is worse) then Boozer is a much better player.

They post very similar numbers offensively, but Boozer has a 17.1 rebound rate compared to 14.1 for Jamison. That’s a huge difference, add in the fact that I value a low post scorer higher than a three point shooter/slasher that Jamison was at that point and I rate Boozer much higher.

Noah and AV are basically the same offensively, but again Noah is the superior rebounder and defender. He also can give you a lot more minutes. AV topped out at 28 MPG where Noah can give you 34 mpg

More minutes, more rebounds add up to a big difference.

The Cavs were overrated as a defensive team because they relied on Shaq/Jamison/Williams to play too many minutes. All three were liabilities that could be attacked, especially in the playoffs when you have time to really destroy a team based on one match up.

I think calling Noah a superior rebounder and defender to AV just isn't true. He plays more minutes obviously but I think they are very similar other than that.

The Cavs were the best defensive team during the regular season and they fizzled a bit in the playoffs. As far as Chicago they line up with Cavs right now until they prove something in the playoffs. Unless they make the finals they will still be at the same level the cavs were the past couple years

[Fafnir]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

Even if you rate Boozer/Jamison as equal defensively (I don't Jamison is worse) then Boozer is a much better player.

They post very similar numbers offensively, but Boozer has a 17.1 rebound rate compared to 14.1 for Jamison. That’s a huge difference, add in the fact that I value a low post scorer higher than a three point shooter/slasher that Jamison was at that point and I rate Boozer much higher.

Noah and AV are basically the same offensively, but again Noah is the superior rebounder and defender. He also can give you a lot more minutes. AV topped out at 28 MPG where Noah can give you 34 mpg

More minutes, more rebounds add up to a big difference.

The Cavs were overrated as a defensive team because they relied on Shaq/Jamison/Williams to play too many minutes. All three were liabilities that could be attacked, especially in the playoffs when you have time to really destroy a team based on one match up.

I think calling Noah a superior rebounder and defender to AV just isn't true. He plays more minutes obviously but I think they are very similar other than that.

The Cavs were the best defensive team during the regular season and they fizzled a bit in the playoffs. As far as Chicago they line up with Cavs right now until they prove something in the playoffs. Unless they make the finals they will still be at the same level the cavs were the past couple years

If you want to say that AV is a similar (or better) defender that's subjective. But Noah is a better rebounder, both on the defensive and offensive glass.

[RJ87]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable. 

The thing about the Bulls that separates them from the Cavs, IMO, is that their superstar buys into the coach's system. LBJ was always trying to run things in Cleveland - but D.Rose and Thibs are clearly on the same page, and Rose seems to have a lot of respect for him and vice versa. You can't really say that about LBJ and Mike Brown.

[Steve Weinman]

There is no way a team with Noah, Boozer and Deng (and other solid role players like Korver) would be as bad as the Cavs.

Sorry but Noah, Boozer and Deng really aren't much better that Varejao, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq. Not to mention the Cavs had better role players DWest, Mo, Parker

Yeah, that Cavs team had some talent.

I think there can be a strong argument that this Bulls team has bought into the system better than that Cavs team did, but on pure talent, they are pretty comparable.  

None of their talent was that good defensively other than West and AV.

Well, Lebron was significantly better defensively than Rose, so that balances it out a bit.  Gibson is a solid defender (better than Rose), and Parker/Moon is pretty comparable to Bogans/Brewer.

Noah is much better than AV, and Boozer is much better than a Jamison.

Deng is probably comparable to AV in overall value as a matter of fact.

Rose has a heck of a lot more help than LeBron did.

I disagree about Noah and AV.  I think they are very comparable.  Noah might be slightly better, but it is marginal.

Same thing with Boozer and Jamison.  Boozer is a better rebounder, but defensively, he is only marginally.  

Speaking purely defensively, this is how I see it:

Noah slightly better than AV
Boozer slightly better than Jamison
James slightly better than Deng
Parker = Bogans
Rose slightly better than Mo Williams

I think you are either dramatically overrating the defenders on Chicago, or underrating the defenders on the Cavs (who were an exceptional defensive team)

Even if you rate Boozer/Jamison as equal defensively (I don't Jamison is worse) then Boozer is a much better player.

They post very similar numbers offensively, but Boozer has a 17.1 rebound rate compared to 14.1 for Jamison. That’s a huge difference, add in the fact that I value a low post scorer higher than a three point shooter/slasher that Jamison was at that point and I rate Boozer much higher.

Noah and AV are basically the same offensively, but again Noah is the superior rebounder and defender. He also can give you a lot more minutes. AV topped out at 28 MPG where Noah can give you 34 mpg

More minutes, more rebounds add up to a big difference.

The Cavs were overrated as a defensive team because they relied on Shaq/Jamison/Williams to play too many minutes. All three were liabilities that could be attacked, especially in the playoffs when you have time to really destroy a team based on one match up.

I think calling Noah a superior rebounder and defender to AV just isn't true. He plays more minutes obviously but I think they are very similar other than that.

Rebound rate accounts for this - as well as pace and opponent shooting percentage differences.

-sw