ESPN's First Take criticizes Kobe

[Assassin70]

Only would have been bad taste if Delonte was in the commercial and not Kobe.

I have no issue with it.

With that said just for the record, I hate that game, and I hate Kobe.

How about Gilbert?

lol tp

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

Along with the villanueva thing this has been a pretty ridiculous couple of weeks. This is what happens when news outlets have nothing to report on. They blow things out of proportion and put on a front of moral outrage in order to generate interest.

[fairweatherfan]

Along with the villanueva thing this has been a pretty ridiculous couple of weeks. This is what happens when news outlets have nothing to report on. They blow things out of proportion and put on a front of moral outrage in order to generate interest.

It's not that there's less to report about so much as they have more time to fill.  Game highlights don't cut it any more, so ESPN has moved toward trying to create their own news.  They're close to the Fox News of sports at this point.

[Tai]

I think it sucks that Kobe would use his status in society to promote a product that makes society more violent, but then again, virtually the entire entertainment industry is violence obsessed, so it's hard to pick on Kobe specifically.

Black Ops makes society more violent? So, video games make our society more violent? XD

Jack Thompson, there's a reason you lost your attorney license.

[CelticSooner]

Just now saw there is an article by Tim Keown on ESPN's Page 2 denouncing Kobe for this also.  Man, what is wrong with people. Its a video game.  Are people really that stupid they can't seperate a video game from real life?

Seriously, are we now gonna say that kids are gonna pick up guns and shoot people because they saw it in a video game?  Guess personal responsibilty is a thing of the past.  Just blame whoever, or whatever else you can for your wrong doings.

The commercial doesnt show the video game. It shows real people with real guns. People that kids look up to. I get what you are saying and i agree to an extent. However this wasnt a conventional video game commercial. It is very edgy and I am surprised to see an athlete like Kobe agree to it.

Edit: Just to add. I really do agree with you that it is awful parenting to let your kid be influenced by media rather than the lessons of the parent. However, there is a huge percentage of the population who let the TV (and now the internet) babysit their kids. So what is the easier thing to fix? Parenting in America or not airing the ad?

Kobe is smiling while doing it. It is a clear reference to how real the virtual environment feels.

It is a small minority of Americans who are squeamish about war movies and video games, so I don't see why Kobe wouldn't do it.

It isn't clear that the commercial creates any violence problems in viewers whatsoever, so why not air it?

The worst part of these discussions is people who talk about kids watching it and kids being influenced. That is often just projection. Provide some evidence that kids are affected any worse than adults before falling back on those arguments.

People also need to wake up to reality. Kids have been playing war games even before we harnessed electricity. Provide some empirical data before endorsing censorship.

Video games, now more than ever, are children's products. This game is sold right next to the Wii games. The message with video games with parents has always been, they are just games they are not real! How much tougher does it get for a parent to get that message across when their son's favorite basketball player is shooting real weapons with no reprocussions in a real life setting?

Video games aren't children's products. Maybe in your day they were but the average age of a gamer now is 34 years old. Those gamers have been playing games for over a decade. This commercial is a non-issue created into something by the ESPiN as they tend to do. If a kid plays a first person shooter I think it's highly likely he understands the definition of real and fake.

[KGs Knee]

Well, after reading through the comments, I'm guess I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my line of thinking.  Sure there are some people that disagree, and in fact think the criticism Kobe has recieved is justified.  Evryone is entitled to their own opinion, but I must ask why.

Why would someone think Kobe doing this commercial is wrong?  In reality, I can guess the answer.  It somehow is endorsing violience, and therfore possibly influencing people, especially kids, to think violence is acceptable.  This is WRONG!

Look, I'm 29 and have no children.  I haven't played a video game since I can remember, just lost interest somewhere in my early 20's.  But my parents always taught me what is in video games and movies is simply fantasy.  What happens in fantasy is not always acceptable for real life.  I can promise you when I have my own kids I will pass this on to them.  This is the real problem.  People are lazy, and would rather just outlaw everything potentially bad, because they are incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong, and furthermore, passing those lessons to their kids.

Still, I couldn't stop laughing when they went to commercial break after the discussion ended.  Sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, the exact commercial came on.  Oh, the irony!  I haven't laughed that hard in a LOOOOOONG time!

[Fan from VT]

Well, at this point it's becoming more inarguable that witnessing violence at adolescent and younger ages, be it in person, on TV, or in video games, certainly directly contributes to different brain development, wiring, and functionality in ways that predict a greater tendency toward and tolerance of real-world violence and aggression.

What is debateable is whose responsibility it is to utilize such information to help lessen real-world violence. Without League intervention, I would not expect a violent person like Kobe to make such an intuitive decision on his own; however, I do think Stern would be within his rights to eliminate player endorsement of violence in order to help sever any links of the NBA and violence.

Here's a couple of abstracts from a Med Journal search (it took about 45 seconds to find these three)
:

Repeated exposure to media violence is associated with diminished response in an inhibitory frontolimbic network.
Kelly CR, Grinband J, Hirsch J.

Department of Radiology, Functional MRI Research Center, Columbia University, Neurological Institute, New York, New York, United States of America. crk2002@columbia.edu

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Media depictions of violence, although often claimed to induce viewer aggression, have not been shown to affect the cortical networks that regulate behavior.

METHODOLOGY/PRINCIPAL FINDINGS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), we found that repeated exposure to violent media, but not to other equally arousing media, led to both diminished response in right lateral orbitofrontal cortex (right ltOFC) and a decrease in right ltOFC-amygdala interaction. Reduced function in this network has been previously associated with decreased control over a variety of behaviors, including reactive aggression. Indeed, we found reduced right ltOFC responses to be characteristic of those subjects that reported greater tendencies toward reactive aggression. Furthermore, the violence-induced reduction in right ltOFC response coincided with increased throughput to behavior planning regions.

CONCLUSIONS: These novel findings establish that even short-term exposure to violent media can result in diminished responsiveness of a network associated with behaviors such as reactive aggression.

Lower lateral orbitofrontal cortex density associated with more frequent exposure to television and movie violence in male adolescents.
Strenziok M, Krueger F, Pulaski SJ, Openshaw AE, Zamboni G, van der Meer E, Grafman J.

National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, USA.

Abstract
The relationship between cortical grey matter density and media violence exposure in healthy male adolescents was investigated using voxel-based morphometry and the Childrens' Report of Exposure to Violence. Adolescents with more frequent exposure have lower left lateral orbitofrontal cortex density--a possible risk factor for altered socioemotional functioning.

Published by Elsevier Inc.

Media depictions of physical and relational aggression: connections with aggression in young adults' romantic relationships.
Coyne SM, Nelson DA, Graham-Kevan N, Tew E, Meng KN, Olsen JA.

Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah.

Abstract
Various studies have found that viewing physical or relational aggression in the media can impact subsequent engagement in aggressive behavior. However, this has rarely been examined in the context of relationships. Accordingly, the aim of this study was to examine the connection between viewing various types of aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression against a romantic partner. A total of 369 young adults completed a variety of questionnaires asking for their perpetration of various forms of relationship aggression. Participants' exposure to both physical and relational aggression in the media was also assessed. As a whole, we found a relationship between viewing aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression; however, this depended on the sex of the participant and the type of aggression measured. Specifically, exposure to physical violence in the media was related to engagement in physical aggression against their partner only for men. However, exposure to relational aggression in the media was related to romantic relational aggression for both men and women. Aggr. Behav. 35:1-7, 2010. © 2010 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

[KGs Knee]

Well, at this point it's becoming more inarguable that witnessing violence at adolescent and younger ages, be it in person, on TV, or in video games, certainly directly contributes to different brain development, wiring, and functionality in ways that predict a greater tendency toward and tolerance of real-world violence and aggression.

What is debateable is whose responsibility it is to utilize such information to help lessen real-world violence. Without League intervention, I would not expect a violent person like Kobe to make such an intuitive decision on his own; however, I do think Stern would be within his rights to eliminate player endorsement of violence in order to help sever any links of the NBA and violence.

Here's a couple of abstracts from a Med Journal search (it took about 45 seconds to find these three)
:

Repeated exposure to media violence is associated with diminished response in an inhibitory frontolimbic network.
Kelly CR, Grinband J, Hirsch J.

Department of Radiology, Functional MRI Research Center, Columbia University, Neurological Institute, New York, New York, United States of America. crk2002@columbia.edu

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Media depictions of violence, although often claimed to induce viewer aggression, have not been shown to affect the cortical networks that regulate behavior.

METHODOLOGY/PRINCIPAL FINDINGS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), we found that repeated exposure to violent media, but not to other equally arousing media, led to both diminished response in right lateral orbitofrontal cortex (right ltOFC) and a decrease in right ltOFC-amygdala interaction. Reduced function in this network has been previously associated with decreased control over a variety of behaviors, including reactive aggression. Indeed, we found reduced right ltOFC responses to be characteristic of those subjects that reported greater tendencies toward reactive aggression. Furthermore, the violence-induced reduction in right ltOFC response coincided with increased throughput to behavior planning regions.

CONCLUSIONS: These novel findings establish that even short-term exposure to violent media can result in diminished responsiveness of a network associated with behaviors such as reactive aggression.

Lower lateral orbitofrontal cortex density associated with more frequent exposure to television and movie violence in male adolescents.
Strenziok M, Krueger F, Pulaski SJ, Openshaw AE, Zamboni G, van der Meer E, Grafman J.

National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, USA.

Abstract
The relationship between cortical grey matter density and media violence exposure in healthy male adolescents was investigated using voxel-based morphometry and the Childrens' Report of Exposure to Violence. Adolescents with more frequent exposure have lower left lateral orbitofrontal cortex density--a possible risk factor for altered socioemotional functioning.

Published by Elsevier Inc.

Media depictions of physical and relational aggression: connections with aggression in young adults' romantic relationships.
Coyne SM, Nelson DA, Graham-Kevan N, Tew E, Meng KN, Olsen JA.

Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah.

Abstract
Various studies have found that viewing physical or relational aggression in the media can impact subsequent engagement in aggressive behavior. However, this has rarely been examined in the context of relationships. Accordingly, the aim of this study was to examine the connection between viewing various types of aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression against a romantic partner. A total of 369 young adults completed a variety of questionnaires asking for their perpetration of various forms of relationship aggression. Participants' exposure to both physical and relational aggression in the media was also assessed. As a whole, we found a relationship between viewing aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression; however, this depended on the sex of the participant and the type of aggression measured. Specifically, exposure to physical violence in the media was related to engagement in physical aggression against their partner only for men. However, exposure to relational aggression in the media was related to romantic relational aggression for both men and women. Aggr. Behav. 35:1-7, 2010. © 2010 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Well, those are all nice medical studies and all, but I still diagree.  I watched plenty of movies containing violence growing up.  Played plenty of violient video games too.  Despite that, and what the studies you quoted are trying to imply, I do not feel the desire to commit any violent acts.  Nor do I feel that they are acceptable in the real world. 

Proper teaching by parents has much more of a profound effect on a childs brain than what their eyes see.  Therein lies the problem.  Too many parents refuse, or are incapable of, teaching their children the diffrence between right and wrong.

So, I would say it is plenty arguable.

[Fan from VT]

Well, at this point it's becoming more inarguable that witnessing violence at adolescent and younger ages, be it in person, on TV, or in video games, certainly directly contributes to different brain development, wiring, and functionality in ways that predict a greater tendency toward and tolerance of real-world violence and aggression.

What is debateable is whose responsibility it is to utilize such information to help lessen real-world violence. Without League intervention, I would not expect a violent person like Kobe to make such an intuitive decision on his own; however, I do think Stern would be within his rights to eliminate player endorsement of violence in order to help sever any links of the NBA and violence.

Here's a couple of abstracts from a Med Journal search (it took about 45 seconds to find these three)
:

Repeated exposure to media violence is associated with diminished response in an inhibitory frontolimbic network.
Kelly CR, Grinband J, Hirsch J.

Department of Radiology, Functional MRI Research Center, Columbia University, Neurological Institute, New York, New York, United States of America. crk2002@columbia.edu

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Media depictions of violence, although often claimed to induce viewer aggression, have not been shown to affect the cortical networks that regulate behavior.

METHODOLOGY/PRINCIPAL FINDINGS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), we found that repeated exposure to violent media, but not to other equally arousing media, led to both diminished response in right lateral orbitofrontal cortex (right ltOFC) and a decrease in right ltOFC-amygdala interaction. Reduced function in this network has been previously associated with decreased control over a variety of behaviors, including reactive aggression. Indeed, we found reduced right ltOFC responses to be characteristic of those subjects that reported greater tendencies toward reactive aggression. Furthermore, the violence-induced reduction in right ltOFC response coincided with increased throughput to behavior planning regions.

CONCLUSIONS: These novel findings establish that even short-term exposure to violent media can result in diminished responsiveness of a network associated with behaviors such as reactive aggression.

Lower lateral orbitofrontal cortex density associated with more frequent exposure to television and movie violence in male adolescents.
Strenziok M, Krueger F, Pulaski SJ, Openshaw AE, Zamboni G, van der Meer E, Grafman J.

National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, USA.

Abstract
The relationship between cortical grey matter density and media violence exposure in healthy male adolescents was investigated using voxel-based morphometry and the Childrens' Report of Exposure to Violence. Adolescents with more frequent exposure have lower left lateral orbitofrontal cortex density--a possible risk factor for altered socioemotional functioning.

Published by Elsevier Inc.

Media depictions of physical and relational aggression: connections with aggression in young adults' romantic relationships.
Coyne SM, Nelson DA, Graham-Kevan N, Tew E, Meng KN, Olsen JA.

Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah.

Abstract
Various studies have found that viewing physical or relational aggression in the media can impact subsequent engagement in aggressive behavior. However, this has rarely been examined in the context of relationships. Accordingly, the aim of this study was to examine the connection between viewing various types of aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression against a romantic partner. A total of 369 young adults completed a variety of questionnaires asking for their perpetration of various forms of relationship aggression. Participants' exposure to both physical and relational aggression in the media was also assessed. As a whole, we found a relationship between viewing aggression in the media and perpetration of aggression; however, this depended on the sex of the participant and the type of aggression measured. Specifically, exposure to physical violence in the media was related to engagement in physical aggression against their partner only for men. However, exposure to relational aggression in the media was related to romantic relational aggression for both men and women. Aggr. Behav. 35:1-7, 2010. © 2010 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Well, those are all nice medical studies and all, but I still diagree.  I watched plenty of movies containing violence growing up.  Played plenty of violient video games too.  Despite that, and what the studies you quoted are trying to imply, I do not feel the desire to commit any violent acts.  Nor do I feel that they are acceptable in the real world. 

Proper teaching by parents has much more of a profound effect on a childs brain than what their eyes see.  Therein lies the problem.  Too many parents refuse, or are incapable of, teaching their children the diffrence between right and wrong.

So, I would say it is plenty arguable.

well i'm happy for you. im not sure how a self-reflective sample size of 1 changes general trends. these are complex multifactorial issues; i'm pointing strong evidence for one contributory factor in the context of many contributory and resiliancy (anti-contributory) factors that all intermingle to create an outcome.

[crownsy]

The thing I always criticize about those studies, and none of these account for it either, is they don't take into account parenting and background.

If a violent kid plays a video game about violence, i'm quite sure it gets his twisted little head fired up, doubly so if he has a parent who doesn't recognize his violent tendencies and buys him a M rated game as a pre teen.

which, and the media always seems to gloss over this part, you have to authorize at the checkout counter and show id for. Do you know how many disinterested parents I told GTA3 was not appropriate for their 11 year old and was not so polity told to mind my own business and ring the sale? that's a parenting issue, not a video game industry issue. The registrar refused to ring up until i got parental consent or saw an ID, and the parents often rammed right through that check despite being told about the sex, blood, extreme violence, ect in the game.

The best ones were those who came back a week later and acted like we at gamestop were the evil ones for selling this "trash". these are the same people i went over the ENTIRE content of the M rating with and was told "yes, yes i know, he's very mature for his age."

So, my point is pretty much that it's not real surprising to me aggressive kids get their rocks off on aggressive games that their sub par parents buy them despite their violent urges. It's the same reason that any form of violent media, books, movies, music appeals to them.

However, the vast majority of well adjusted humans can actually separate a video game from reality, just like movies.

I've played violent video games since Doom when i was 13. I have many, many friends who have done the same.

Somehow we've all avoided shooting up the school, randomly punching people, abusing our girlfriends/wives and being a violent person in general and went on to very productive lives. We all still game when we can, including the new COD.



EDIT: fan from VT, you do realize that videogames have moved beyond a niche hobby for anti social kids in highschool right?

"a sample size of 1" is pretty dismissive, videogames are a huge hobby now, across all age groups, particularly males and females 18-32. COD: black ops moved close to a billion dollars in sales worldwide already, most of those sales aren't 12 year old kids scamming there parents to play it in their basement.

Not to out my fellow lawyers, but a pretty heafty amount of the mid twenties crowd, mostly male but some female, at my law school has that game and we are playing it on xbox live nightly.

somehow i think we'll avoid forgetting our studies and moral code and shooting up the school  

[Fan from VT]

EDIT: fan from VT, you do realize that videogames have moved beyond a niche hobby for anti social kids in highschool right?

"a sample size of 1" is pretty dismissive, videogames are a huge hobby now, across all age groups, particularly males and females 18-32. COD: black ops moved close to a billion dollars in sales worldwide already, most of those sales aren't 12 year old kids scamming there parents to play it in their basement.

Not to out my fellow lawyers, but a pretty heafty amount of the mid twenties crowd, mostly male but some female, at my law school has that game and we are playing it on xbox live nightly.

somehow i think we'll avoid forgetting our studies and moral code and shooting up the school  

well, i mean of course I realize that. Do you understand population statistics? Or the idea of several contributory and resiliancy factors interacting? So violence in media is shown to be one contributory factor. Among many contributory factors as well as several resiliancy factors. So obviously one can be exposed to any type of violence and not become violent. But it is independently contributory; what we do with that info is up for debate.

My comment about sample size of 1 was in response to the general sentiment a lot of people have which is "I did X and I'm okay so X can never ever lead to anything bad and everyone should do X. It worked for ME, so everyone should do it and it's no problem ever." There's a really really strong impulse in our culture to try to take one's own past and impose it as the right past for everybody; I'm not sure if it's the individual streak applied to populations, defensiveness in terms of an inability for us to admit we've been less than perfect, or what.

[crownsy]

EDIT: fan from VT, you do realize that videogames have moved beyond a niche hobby for anti social kids in highschool right?

"a sample size of 1" is pretty dismissive, videogames are a huge hobby now, across all age groups, particularly males and females 18-32. COD: black ops moved close to a billion dollars in sales worldwide already, most of those sales aren't 12 year old kids scamming there parents to play it in their basement.

Not to out my fellow lawyers, but a pretty heafty amount of the mid twenties crowd, mostly male but some female, at my law school has that game and we are playing it on xbox live nightly.

somehow i think we'll avoid forgetting our studies and moral code and shooting up the school  

well, i mean of course I realize that. Do you understand population statistics? Or the idea of several contributory and resiliancy factors interacting? So violence in media is shown to be one contributory factor. Among many contributory factors as well as several resiliancy factors. So obviously one can be exposed to any type of violence and not become violent. But it is independently contributory; what we do with that info is up for debate.

My comment about sample size of 1 was in response to the general sentiment a lot of people have which is "I did X and I'm okay so X can never ever lead to anything bad and everyone should do X. It worked for ME, so everyone should do it and it's no problem ever." There's a really really strong impulse in our culture to try to take one's own past and impose it as the right past for everybody; I'm not sure if it's the individual streak applied to populations, defensiveness in terms of an inability for us to admit we've been less than perfect, or what.

Just as there's an equally strong urge, which the rest of my post alluded to, to blame those contributory factors at a rate far exceeding their actual impact on society when the exception (violence "triggered" by gaming causes one unstable individual to crack) occurs rather than the rule (conservatively, 50 million people under the age of 30 game in this country. most do not in fact turn out to be violent felons)

My contention is that the handful of incidents that are blamed on violent video games a year are more a product of a violent individual, often a borderline sociopaths in some tragic events, getting and playing video games they like because of their violent urges than a videogame "corrupting" that individual.

That doesn't mean that the children are in danger from a videogame co-opting thier sense of right and wrong, it means those specific children's parents and social structure let them down, and it goes far beyond the game that they seek to blame.

This is not a new thing, i remember when horror/slasher movies and D & D were all the rage to blame for violent outbursts when i was a kid. Then that wasen't sexy enough anymore, so we moved onto videogames as they went from asteroids to doom.

Violent people get thier rocks of on violent media, that's really not that shocking to me. I fail to see why the rest of us, who can seperate fantasy from reality, have to suffer because parent's refuse to parent and override the ratings system on those games.

Not one under 15 year old walked into a blackops release on his own and bought that game. I didn't stand in line this time, but when MW2 came out, me and a few friends picked it up at midnight after work. There were a few parents proudly standing beside thier kids to grab it for them, and if the kid is stable, fine.

But if your the media, don't criticize Kobe, who is not exactly a role model for children after his adventures in colorado, for somehow turning children into violent solider dronse by appearing in a fun commercial for an adult game that plays later in the day like all commercials of this nature. It's fake moral outrage.

IF he was in a rated R movie trailer, would there be the same outcry among the holier than thou media types?

[Fafnir]

If we're moving onto the effects of video game violence perhaps another thread would be more appropriate?

We're moving beyond Kobe's role in a commercial and the criticism he's recieved.

[Witch-King]

LOL! TP.

I'll admit that it is slightly unsettling that the mere presence of someone like Kobe Bryant in a commercial for a video game that simulates warfare might mislead people into thinking that Kobe Bryant is somehow encouraging violence and/or warfare himself. 

Either way, I'm not the biggest fan of the Call of Duty franchise as far as video games are concerned, I'm more into action, sports, driving simulators, Super Mario & Sonic the Hedgehog, etc.

If Kobe Bryant was a secret character in Call of Duty I might try my hand at that game, though, hahaha.....